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I'm missing a few fuses here and was hoping for a picture or a list so I can redo things correctly.
Obviously I have some missing fuses but I'd also like to replace those metal boxes (relays?) .
Can some one help me figure out which parts to order?
it's an '84 305/Auto. I just got her two days ago. I believe it's a Berinletta (I'm new and obviously can't spell that)..
The car only has 69k miles and appears unmolested with the exception of a crappy inline fuel pump someone hacked in. The rpo paper is still attached to the lid of the center console.
Welcome aboard! It would help if you filled out your profile. The "metal boxes" are not relays but 35 AMP fuses. Not all the fuse locations would be utilized. It all depends on the options that the car was "born with". After 39 years some of those options may have been removed/hacked up by previous owners as well..
Those are places that the factory, or you, could plug in accessories that need those types of power. Batt, ign, accy, radio, etc.
Don't replace the auto-reset circuit breakers with fuses. That's their whole point: rather than burning out and requiring replacement every time they get overloaded, they ... auto-reset ... so that they're ready to go again after a short time. If they're not "bad" in some way, leave them alone.
No, not the starter solenoid. Although, that's where the FLs are located. The big post on the solenoid that the battery cable lands on, is also where the FLs (which are, in a word, the whole rest of the car) connect. Usually if one is bad, about half of the car will be dead. For example, there are 2 batt feeds to the ign sw; each comes from one of the FLs; so if one FL is bad, certain ign sw related functions (start, ign to the distributor, accessories like radio and HVAC, etc.) will still work and others won't. One of the FLs feeds the headlight switch, so if that one is bad, the headlights, taillights, and dash lights won't work. And so on.
OTOH if the ONLY things that don't work are the things that run off of the HL sw, the problem isn't a FL. It might be possible for the hazard flashers or brake lights or fog lights to still work but not the HLs. I don't know offhand if that's so, but there's no reason that the car can't be designed that way.
Which is why details matter. "Lights" and "anything" are too vague.
if it has the push button controls, the lights are controlled through a light module under the dash, piggy backed to the ECM.
this module is a known failure point and will cause all sorts of lighting/not-lighting issues. a new replacement is not available.
another common issue is the push button pods. these go bad in that the push buttons don't electrically close the contact. these can be tested by pulling them out, keeping the electrical connector in place and shorting the contacts. if that works, the contacts can be cleaned, which may require some soldiering to remove and re-install. you'll see when you open it up.
Thank you guys! I cleaned up the battery connections. I looked a bit for a fusable link but it's a tight fit!
Now the car will crank.
I didn't hear the sending unit (I don't know if I should) prime and I know the pump is bad ....or maybe the sending unit?No lights on dash. No gauges, no stereo, blower motor turns on. Dome light also.
I can hear the door opening beep.
Headlights and blinkers. But no dash lights. I haven't checked for spark.
I have battery power at the fuse block at the fuse "interior lights".
Ignition or headlight switch???
This car has been sitting for years but is a pretty low mile car (68k).
1984 Camaro Berlinetta305/ Auto
it appears mostly stock except the radio.
Any help would be great?
I have a dvm and I replaced the cars battery.. It's a tight fit!
Impossible to tell about "good" with all that gunk on them. For that matter, they can "look" "good" even when they're not, although more often, they show evidence of their failure. But I don't see anything visibly wrong with them, from that photo.
What a FL is, is the same functional thing as a fuse; except, without the possibility of bad connections that fuses always seem to develop. They simply burn out, like a fuse, if they're overloaded. Unfortunately they chafe sometimes in that metal tube that they go up into, and burn out for no good reason other than their own internal conductor touching the tube. They're a section of wire maybe 8" long or so at the end of the Big Red Wires that feed power to the whole car. They're a special high-temp-insulated wire type, about 3 - 4 gauges smaller (they're metric, and those sizes don't equate exactly to wire gauges, but it's in that general range) than the Big Red Wires they protect. They're color-coded: if I was going to guess, those 2 are both "rust" (a brownish-orange shade), which if memory serves is approx 16 gauge. The Big Red Wires are probably about 12 gauge, 4 sizes larger than the FLs. The actual metric sizes are probably M3.0 for the Big Red Wire and M1.5 for the FL, which are close to #12 & #16 AWG.
That engine would probably GREATLY appreciate a trip to the quarter car wash with acoupla cans of engine degreaser (diesel fuel in a spray can). As would your mechanic self, so you don't have to wallow in 10,000 years of funk and ooze and spider webs and whatnot while trying to work on it.
Butt: before dinking with any of that, determine EXACTLY what does and doesn't work in your car. If only ONE thing doesn't work, The Problem is NOT the FLs. If about half of the car doesn't work, then yes a FL is a probably cause. Do some troubleshooting and use some logic FIRST, before possibly diving into something that doesn't need to be dove into.
I would drop the starter to test the fls but it looks like it will be a pain to get it out! I'll decrease and stuff after I get the dash lights and radio working. Thanks a lot!
You're not at the point of knowing that that's what needs to be done though. You're about like the people who think they have an "overheating" problem because their car spews coolant, and decide that they have to change the head gaskets, when their only actual problem is, they need a radiator cap. Don't just jump directly to the most grievous "explanation" you can think of without being logical about it.
EXACTLY what all does and doesn't work? Operate every single switch, check every single bulb, etc. etc. etc. Emphasis on EVERY. Make a list and check it off. Power windows, power seats, rear window defogger, hatch release, power mirrors, blower motor, headlights, brake lights, taillights, turn signals, flashers, radio, power antenna, gauges, AC compressor, ... EVERY electrical item in the vehicle. Figure out whether about half the car is dead, or one whole circuit such as everything connected to the HL sw doesn't work but everything else does, or whether you have just ONE thing that's out, or what.
How do I go about testing the fls? None of the dash lights work (or radio) work but
I have power for them at the fuse block?
Headlights and blinkers work. Ac blower works. Dome light works.
is it a big task to test the ignition switch?
Battery is fresh. Blinker works but the lever (switch) is touchy.
If you have power at the fuse block for whatever isn't working, then you've already "tested" the FLs.
THEY'RE GOOD. If they were bad, power wouldn't be getting to the fuse block in the first place. Remember, each FL feeds power to about half of the car; think of them as being like the main breaker in your house, except that there's 2 of them. If one is bad then one entire half of the car won't be getting power. Butt if only one thing in your house isn't working, then the problem CAN'T BE a main breaker, because if they were bad, LOTS of things wouldn't be getting power. Same deal here. If individual breakers (fuses) are getting power, then the main breaker (FL) feeding them is good. Logic.
is it a big task to test the ignition switch?
Not really, it's quite easy. You don't have to use a meter or anything for the most part. Just logic. See what works and what doesn't, then you'll know whether that's even necessary. Obviously if the things that don't work aren't wired through it, then you don't need to test it at all.
Dash lights power doesn't pass through the ign sw, in any case. Therefore the ign sw CANNOT cause the dash lights to fail. (assuming of course, that we're talking about the gauge illumination, as opposed to the various indicators) The flow of 12V for them goes: 12V from one of the FLs to HL sw; taillight output of HL sw to the dimmer (this connection is internal to the HL sw since the dimmer is part of the sw); to the fuse block; through the INSTR LPS fuse; to the lights. Do the taillights work? Then the HL sw is probably good. If you have INSTR PLS voltage at the fuse block then you can be certain the HL sw is good, including the dimmer.
If you have Radio power at the fuse block but the radio doesn't work, then you have a radio problem, or possibly the wire from the fuse to the radio which is not as likely excetp for the possibility of sodomy which unfortunately is very common in the Radio circuit especially right near the radio. If the ign sw was bad you probably wouldn't have either HVAC blower or Radio power, as both of those are fed off of contacts of the ign sw. Radio gets power when the sw is in Run or Acc; HVAC gets power when the sw is in Run only. Therefore very unlikely that the ign sw is the cause of the problem, since at least some things that depend on it are working, and no matter what, it can't cause the dash lights not to work. See my signature: a proposed "explanation" that DOESN'T "fit all the facts", emphasis on ALL, cannot be the correct one.
Has any of this stuff EVER worked since you've had the car? What happened right before these things stopped working? Or, did you just buy it and it's like this when you got it? Has anybody been working on the wiring under the dash, most especially behind the radio where people stick their peter-pullers the most often? Any aftermarket alarms, car starters, "kill switches", etc. in the car? Any sign of splices, Scotchlocks, bare wires, electrical tape, wire nuts, or other visible sodomy under the dash? Does the car start and run?
Use logic and reason and rational observation to troubleshoot each problem individually, not blindly go down the "maybe it's this maybe it's that" rabbit hole. After all, it's just a car; one of the simplest forms of electricity there is. It might look like a giant blibbet with wires going everywhere and all that, but it's really very simple and orderly and logical, at its core.
Last edited by sofakingdom; 12-08-2023 at 10:29 AM.
Thank you so much. I'll do some more testing when I get to the car. I just bought the car. I was told it had a fuel pump issue and would run with starting fluid.
the car had been sitting for a while (16+ years) and I will try more Crank ng once I replace the gas and possibly the gas pump
is there any other way to narrow it down to a bad headlight switch besides checking the taillights?
No dash lights at all. No radio.
Thank you again! I'm so happy I need might be able to skip the whole reminder removing the starter to test the fls!
Is the headlight switch hard to get too?
Is there a trick to drawing the gas with out dropping the tank?
your car should not have come with an electric fuel pump. it should have a block mounted mechanical pump.
to drain the tank you can disconnect the 'rubber' fuel lines at their connection to the metal lines mounted to the inner fender well. add a short section of hose to the larger one into a container. add some compressed air into the smaller one (with the gas cap tight). this will over pressurize the tank and force the gas out. you should hear a little pop back there as the over pressure relief valve opens. it will stay shut at about 5 psig so you don't need much air pressure.
if this is a berlinetta with the digital dash some of the enabling circuitry will be different from what Sofa assumes above but the power routing is essentially the same.
Thank you! Its a Berlinetta ('84 305).
the mech. pump is there but the po put an ecetric pump and so I'm not too sure of how things look. Right now the dash lights and body are on the top of my 'list' then an overall tune up then getting this headliner redone! Notice the little fuel pump I can't wait to take out!?
Any sign of splices, Scotchlocks, bare wires, electrical tape, wire nuts, or other visible sodomy
That whole fuel pump jerry-rig needs to go away. The stock mech pump is entirely adequate; that little thing, looks like lawn-mower size, is not. Get rid of it, figure out what's wrong with the mech one, clear that one little piece of sodomy out of there as your first endeavor. That sort of thing is EXACTLY what I have been referring to as PO "sodomy". NOW YOU KNOW what you're dealing with, and there's NO TELLING what they might have done to it. Every hack is different, and the only way to fix what's been hacked, is to find the hacks, identify them, remove them, and repair PROPERLY whatever underlying defect made some idiot think that the best thing to do was to HACK on it.
Seeing that, I'm expecting you'll find more of it under the dash, particularly behind the radio. No point in posting anything any further until you inspect and correct whatever damage has been done. It's POINTLESS to "troubleshoot" messes like that: one look is all it takes, you KNOW it's a mess, CLEAN IT UP before you go any further, your problems might just vanish on their own.
Once you get the fuel delivery straightened out to where you can drive it, get it to the car wash, along with several cans of "engine degreaser". Trying to fix PO p***** tracks is hard and tedious enough on its own, no sense in forcing yourself to do it immersed in a sea of filth and crap besides.
The po I think tried to get it running and used speaker wire to wire that little pump! 😆
I took the blower fan out and discovered a rats nest complete with at least one mouse. Today I'm employing one of the kids to put on some gloves on and scoop it out and vacuum the rest
I'll pull off the lower dash today where I'm pretty sure I'll find more of the po's or this Moises trailes. Hopefully there's an obvious fox. I'll degrease and clean things after I redo this un converted , dust raining, headliner? Thank you again. I'll replace and redo the fuel system after I flush the old gas out.
Is there a chance the sending unit could be toast? Is the filter something I can change with regular tools (basic wrench + vice grips)?
Some of the vacuum lines are pretty toasted. Does anyone have a semi stock engine pic I can compare mine too? My goal is to return this car to factory.
Is there a chance the sending unit could be toast?
Yes, there's always that... the thing that most usually is a problem in a left-sitting situation though, is the little "sock" filter on the end of the fuel pickup. They get completely plugged up with the tar that old gasoline turns into. The whole pickup, for that matter, can get blocked with that stuff. It's REALLY nasty.
Is the filter something I can change with regular tools (basic wrench + vice grips)?
Yes and no. Wrench, yes; vise-grips, HARD NO. Using vise-grips on a car is on the same level, or maybe even lower, than wire nuts. Except as an ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT after Skillet has already buggered something up beyond belief somehow and it's already beyond any hope of re-use, and it's in the way, and you've just got to get it out of there so you can throw it in the trash and get another one.
It's in the front of the carb where the fuel line goes in, behind the big nut you'll find there. Cryptically hidden and concealed right next to the word "FILTER" with the arrow pointing to it.
DO NOT use vise grips on ANYTHING. Instead, get a 5/8" line wrench aka "crowsfoot" wrench, and a 1" open-end. Hold the big nut still with the 1" and break the fuel line flare nut (the rightmost blue one, in my pic) loose with the line wrench.
DO NOT allow the big nut to turn while the flare nut is still tight in it!!! That will DESTROY whatever is left of your OE fuel line, if anything. Soak the nut for a few days with good penetrating oil such as Kroil or PB Blaster (NOT WD-40), as it tends to rust in place. You can find the filter itself hanging on a card at any parts store, it's soooper common.
I drained some of the gas tank..,.looked like coffee. Isn't there an almost soda can
shaped inline fuel filter by the tank? I'll order the right tools you mentioned.
I pulled some of the lower dash plastic off and only found damage to this int light wire. I still need to pull the radio and the other plastic dash pieces.
On a side note. I need to drain all the old gas. How would I go about knowing about how full the tank is? I have a section of 1" pvc pipe.....
Isn't there an almost soda can shaped inline fuel filter by the tank?
No there is not. Not from the factory anyway. Who knows what sort of a soda-can-shaped object some PO might have put there though. Might even be a soda can for all I can guess. Although, that would take WORK, and I'm not sure your PO would have indulged in any sort of such obscenity. So probably not.
You'll just have to LOOK AT YOUR CAR. At some level, all we can tell you from here is, what the car was like when it was built. We can't begin to guess what sodomy (you DO know what that word refers to, right???) the car has endured or enjoyed since then. You just have to LOOK for yourself.
How would I go about knowing about how full the tank is?
You drain it into a bucket or something. When that fills up, if still more keeps coming out, empty it LEGALLY and start over, or get another bucket. When gas quits coming out, then, ... there's no more gas coming out. Not too hard really. Just logic. The tank held a bit over 15 gallons when new; odds are you won't need more than 3 buckets, and judging by what I've seen from your PO Cletus or Billy Joe Bob, there'll probably be AHELLUVALOT less than that in it. Looks like the kind of moron that thought he was "saving money" if he only put in $5 worth once a day instead of filling it up once a week. Idiot.
That wire looks like rodent damage. In the interest of cheeeeeepness, along with recycle friendliness, the various factories made wire with cellulose-based insulation back then. Worked fine, as wiring goes; problem is, tastes like DINNER to rats and chipmunks and whatnot. With that kind of damage, almost anything can be happening, and it probably (almost certainly) is. Just gotta LOOK at all of it and find what's fornicated. No way any of us out here can LOOK AT your car for you and tell what's been destroyed.
Sounds like you have THREE problems: the whole sitting-up-idle-for-decades thing; an ignorant yahoo PO with a pair of dykes: and little fuzzy creatures that have taken up residence. I foresee LOTS o fun in your future.
Sorry to be the bearer of good news, butt, there's NOTHING that any of us out here can DO about that, since it's so dark and cold out right now. I can't see your car anymore in the dark and all. It's all up to you at this point. Can't see your car real clearly in the rain to help out with any other details. Gotta check over EVERY wire in the whole car, since there's no telling which ones the rodents found the most tasty.
Gotta tackle it one problem at a time. YOU have to be the explorer. None of us out here can tell you what's destroyed, any better than YOU can, when you simply LOOK AT everything.
Did I mention, LOOK AT stuff? Quit posting and do some of that. Then when you've LOOKED AT as much of it as you can see, and fixed what you can, and identified things you can't otherwise figure out, THEN, come post about it, and we'll try to help.
Ok,thanks! I'll take picture of the fuel filter mounted by the tank tomorrow. Hope I can get more of the dash apart.
I asked about the gas because idk if my 5gal gas thing will hold it but I guess I'll find out!
Thank you for all your help!
I'll also take pics of under the hood so I can sorta restore things to factory.
If you're talking about the cable that looks like for a land-line phone, definitely not stock. Can't tell at all what it is. Might be worth following that cable and see where it goes.
In the 2nd pic, if you're asking about the orange & white wires, that goes to an interior light of some kind. Probably the footwell light.
this is an 84 berlinetta?..........if it has the push button controls, the lights are controlled through a light module under the dash, piggy backed to the ECM.....
Could the strange looking cable be part of the whole Berlinetta deal? Never seen one in person so I have no clue, which is why I'm asking. Naf mentioned push button controls which got me to wondering if the mystery cable somehow involves that?
12-04-2023, 09:44 AM
