OK I need some major help guys....

I met a guy on this board that is willing to build me a 500 Hp 383. He is an engine builder in Migchigan, and I live in Boston. He says he can get it to me for 6300. I have his work phone #, his house phone # and address, oh and of course the address of the shop.

Would you guys trust this?
How would you secure a legit transaction?
Would you expect a written contract or something?

I have no idea what to do. The deal is great, I mean the engine is fully forged and has all great parts, he emailed me a list of parts too. He is even willing to give me his social security # if i want.

Do I trust him??

Need your imput guys, I am 21 and building my first car. I don't know how these things work

thx for the help

 

take a look at this site and some of the others, compare what he is offering. trust...this is the net.....maybe some of the others here know him.

 

Well...you can build a decent 383 about that size yourself for maybe 5 grand...so that overhead sounds like it would include a normal assembly fee for a customized engine. Get us a list of the parts to be used and it will be easier to say. If he's using all cast parts, then it's a rip-off. All forged parts...then it sounds about right to me with shipping.

P.S. If you don't know how to assemble yourself, it's worth the extra $1300 or so to know that it was done properly (assuming that he does it right).

 

Thanks for the #'s.

Yes all forged. Roller cam and Trickflow Al, heads. and includes shipping.

turnkey-valve covers and timing cover

I can get a list of the parts tonght.


And no I don't know how to assemble myself.

 

does it come with a dyno sheet ?

 

yes, fully documented and pics of the assembly, as it is built. At least these are all the things the guy told me would happen.

 

how bout a crate motor from summit or jegs thay sell some nice ones for cheaper. and you can trust them .

 

I know the crank is and eagle forged piece, and so are the connecting rods. H-beam.

This is just waht i know of the top of my head. So bear with me.

Milodon kick out oil pan. Malory distributor. With a billet body. ummm what else...flat top pistons, holly 750 cfm carb, and single plane vitor jr. intake.

Thats all i remember off the top of my head. Hope that give enough imput for you guys to help me.

 

can you even get 500 hp from flat top pistons i would think you would need a dome of some sort ? i know with a 64cc head you get like 10 to 1 with a good flat top i have the domes in my 383 and i have about 12 to 1 com . i,m pulling down about 550 hp . at the fly wheel so its less at the wheels ...anyway do your homework on this ''500'' hp motor before you spend you money on it . and you will need a good trans and rear to hold up to all this power ...you say you don't know how to put it togther . the motor that is ...its a lot of work building a car to handle that power . good luck. and take your time.

 

I don't know how to put togeather the motor

 

I know about the rest of the car. I got my moser 12 bolt that is good for about 900 HP. I am getting a tremec 6 speed that I have seen in cars putting out around 600 all day long on the street. I have a sphon torque arms, JMA tube adj. trailing arms, tube adj. panhard rod, new springs, KYB shocks. Tube k-member and a arms. The rest of the car is legit, I just need to get beter informed about the engine aspect

 

I have also have a set of Tenzo R (cheap) seat, a 6point bar and 5 point harneses (more for fun). Custom guages, and interior. 17X11" ZR1 rims out back with 335's and 17X9.5" up front with 275's, A/C delete, Heater delete, and smoothed fire wall and relocated battery and coolant resivor.

Body has SFC and fully undercoated with POR-15. I think that covers most of it. I have been building this car for about 3 years. The entire time, reading and looking up stuff on my car. I know quite a bit.

Just now I am getting into the custom motor stuff.....

Sorry for rambling on, but I just want you guys to have a better idea of whom you are talking to.

Again thanks in advance for any help

 

With a roller cam,alum. heads,forged pistons,aftermarket crank,H beams,etc.,for 6300 assembled,long block,I'd say that's about right.But throw in a carb,dist.,etc.,and I really smell a rat.Think about it,a carb that can support 500hp is going to cost around $500,and the dist.,around $250 bare minimum,intake,$200 range,see my point?That's to say nothing for heads.While I've not done the research on TrickFlows,I do know that it's really easy to tie up 2k in a hurry if you put good stuff in them.After my 421 got wasted by a valve breaking the head off,I swear by good cylinder head pieces.

My advice would be to check in with fivesevenkid,he seems to know about everyone here,and he's very knowledgeable.
Not trying to be a wet blanket,and I'm not saying this guy ain't legit,he might very well be.I just know that I've got close to 5500 in my 406,assembled it myself,and implemented used parts where I could(intake,etc.)But hey,this guy may get an incredible volume discount.I'd just make sure you talk to SOMEONE who has dealt with him before.Then and only then would I cough up that kind of dough.

 

Wow cant believe this got onto the main board. Anyway i am the guy who is the "rat". And why cant you make 500 on 10:1 compression? Man i came here as someone who loves building cars and more specifically engines. I saw a post about Dennis needing an engine so i got ahold of him. Im not trying to scam anyone. My original intent was to hook this guy up so i could get a good reputation out on TOG. And 6300 is a killer deal considering Im basically doing 850+ of machine work for free. This is a fully blue printed and balanced engine. Call you local machine shop and get a price for a hot tank, deck the block .010, Bore the cylinders with plates, Balance the rotating assembly, fit the rods to the crank, and check all clearances. He wants me to ship out this engine after only paying partial of it. No way in hell am i gonna ship a product without being paid in full. If this is gonna be this much of a headache ill just scrap it and move on to my next customer. Ive wasted enough time running numbers, researching combos and gettin estimates together.

 

Easy now,reread my post.It is a killer deal by all means,I never said it wasn't.I know full well the cost of machine work and quality parts,as I've built several high HP engines.As far as 500 HP with 10:1,I know for a fact it can be done with proper cylinder head/cam combo.Maybe my point was misrepresented,it seems TOO cheap,like I said before,I've got close to that in a 406 that I assembled/clearanced/degreed/tuned myself.

I'm not saying that your a rat,you may very well be a completely honest and trustworthy person.We all know just as much about you as you do us.I mean,look at it like this,he's asked you to ship it with partial payment and you say hell no.That's completely understandable,but your asking him for $6300 for something he's never seen.Same difference,isn't it?

And what about warranty?If something goes wrong,he's gotta ship it all the way back to you,and wait for it to ship back,on top of pulling the engine over something that might be repaired in chassis if you were local.And don't tell me your engines never fail,because if your building engines at that performance level,you WILL have failures from from time to time,no matter how good you are.

All I personally was implying that he needs to check up on you before he just sends $6300 to someone he's never met in person.I don't think that's insulting or derogatory.If you turn away a potential customer or take offense to him wanting reassurance before he drops that kind of money,then IMO,he's better off not dealing with you.He obviously has about $6500 to spend on an engine,I'm sure someone will happily accomodate his wishes.

 

The whole shipping it with a partial payment shouldnt be an option to any engine builder or any shop. No buisness person in thier right mind would ship out a product without it first being paid for. Secondly the warranty thing would all be up in the air depending on the situation, and what exactly failed. If any engine componant fails in an engine there is no way its gonna be repaired in chassis unless its something small like a rocker arm, pushrod, or cam. But ive already talked about this to him in great detail. Checking up is fine, i just dont like draggin this stuff out. Ive given him all the reassurance i can, i dont know what else to give him? This is where my frustration is coming from. If he wants to go somewhere local thats fine, he just needs to let me know.

 

what i was saying is i am not sure if you can pump out 500 hp from a 10 to 1 piston but i guess you can ...my bad .

 

Well...this is the real bain of anyone who wishes to build engine for profit: in order to do long distance sales (i.e.: anything further than a few hours drive), you have to get a name established. You could be an absolutely meticulous builder and no one mentioned that you weren't -- just dennisbernal91z asked a question and the guys on here answered it the best they could.

And on a side note: in certain parts of the business world, product does ship before payment, but typically only to commercial customers and not directly to end-users. The company I work for ships hundreds of thousands of dollars of product on 90 day terms, but when we ship one or two units direct to an end-user, we typically get paid up-front. All of our suppliers ship to us on terms as well. It does involve trust on both angles. If it were me, I'd work with the guy in a way that should help not to screw anyone such as: the client obtains two or three cashier's checks, mails the first to start the build and then sends photocopies of the others to show they exist. It's not totally fool-proof, but it does show that the money at least exists.

 

Thanks so much for the help guys. The money order idea sounds like a bit of assurance.

I understand that buisnesses don't send out product without full payment, I am just trying to find a way to cover myself, incase something does happen.

I am pretty sure thebigwelsh is legit. I have talked to him on AIM and over the phone. I have his address of his house and his buisness. Is there a way to make sure these things are correct? Maybe I can mail him something, or maybe he can mail me a estimate? Some paper work is all I am looking for, all online stuff gets kinda sketchy.

He is starting off a new buisness and trying to make a name for himself on these boards. Seems like a great idea, I really hope you guys can give me some advice so that I can take advantage of this great deal

fully forged 383 500 HP, for 6300. What can get better then that, not building yourself...

 

All I can say is,it's a great deal,without a doubt.All the parts you have mentioned along with extras such as carb,etc.,for $6300 will not be beat anywhere.

I might sound like I'm contradicting myself,but if you've talked to him and your gut says he's ok,go for it.I'd definately try the arrangement mentioned earlier,with photocopied money orders,if he'll agree to it.What it boils down to is,it's your decision to make.I never meant to say don't do it,just to be cautious.

If nothing else,you might request a photo of the engine bolted to a dyno,and a printed receipt of all parts/work performed,then send payment.

If you do it,let us all know how it turns out!

 

He can't build the motor without the $ for the parts. He is lieterally building it with the $ I am sending. But yes, he is going to send pics of the build. Fully documented. There will be pics of the whole buildup. I am pretty sure that I am going ahead with the build. The deal is great and the builder says he will send me a list of the parts and a statment that says he agrees to build and sell me the motor, with his signature. At this point, I feel confident that the deal is legit.

If you guys wanna see what car this is going into, check out my sig. The whole buildup from stock is there. Thanks for all the help guys, and if anything pops into your head that I should know, please speak up. I am new at buying engines.

thx,
-Dennis