hey anyone out there know if a 461 cleveland will bolt into a 1991 camaro and if so what i need to replace or what help will be greatly appreciated thanks third geners

 

Cleveland is a Ford motor, so no it will not bolt in. It will take some fabrication to make it work. Why do you want to put a Ford motor in a Camaro?

 

the reason i am putting a ford motor in a camaro is because i have rebuilt this because it was give to me and know after dynoed it has over 650 hp... i know its a shame swapping ford into a gm but hey we all take chances and this horse i couldnt pass but i am all still a gm lover and very devodeted to my camaro
how much fabercation will be needed

 

What the hell is a 461 Cleveland???Heard of 351 clevelands,heard of a 460,but ........

You cannot be serious,if you are,good luck,I don't imagine help for this clusterfu*k project will be found here.

 

Sell it for lots $O-dough. Then buy a Aftermarket big cube SBC. This will bolt right in and you will much better off in the long run. Good luck. What is a 461 anyway?

 

I agree with selling the Ford and buying a Chev. There will be plenty of Blue Oval fans out there wanting that for their Fox Body or street rod. People put Chevy motors in Fords quite often but rarely the other way around.

Puting a Chev in your car will be better for several reasons...
1) It belongs in there
2) It will bolt in
3) Not too many people around here know anything about Fords, so help will be very limited
4) It will reduce the WTF factor of your car

 

put the ford motor in anything else and keep your 6 cylinder camaro as your daily driver/backup car whenever your project car needs work. a t bucket or something would be great.. simple, easy to work on, and the lack of weight means you'd haul some ***.

 

I dont believe there was ever a 461 cleveland. That aside, its not worth it to put a ford engine in. By the time you spent the money getting headers to fit, and mounts, and all that other good stuff, you could have had a nice engine that BELONGS there.

I', confused, you rebuilt it? Or someone else did? You know it has 650hp? If so, how much did you pay for it?

 

You can put any engine into any car but don't expect it to be a simple bolt in or cheap. Just drop it into a Maverick.

 

Sounds like the perfect engine for an old Ford pickup or a Rat Rod.

 

alright guys bad idea i was not even going to try i did not even get it instead i got a 305 and going to build the sh@# out of it this summer and pull out the v6 next winter when its up for storage

 

Dont mean to burst your bubble, but the 305 is a bad place to stick a bunch of money as it is not a great building block for a high performance motor.

 

Why spend the same, if not more on a 305, when you could just start with a 350 block? Dont shoot yourself in the foot........

 

i suppose that all depends on what his version of *building the **** outa it * is.

They can make 300hp quite cheaply without problems. now making 400hp on a 305 is definetly a good bit tougher than doing it with a 350, just my 2 cents.

I'm all for the 351 cleveland if you have it built and it's free to you. If you have much fabrication know how it wouldn't be to terrible i wouldn't suspect. You'd need a custom driveshaft length , custom mounts and new k-member i would expect but, if you have any guidance or much fabrication know how (can use a ruler and cut steel) it couldn't be to bad....

Theres definetly no way you could get 650hp outa a 305 lets just say. I'd say a max and i do mean max built 305 wouldn't make any more than 450hp naturally aspirated.

 

Anything is possible, if you have the patience to put it together, but why? Why would someone spend the money building a 305? Its kinda like peeing into the wind.

 

see thank you irocz.... see you use what you got or given if you got a big engine maybe ford... but if it can be built to 400 hp or more i have no problem if it can turn the wheels going at 35 mph or throw you in your seat its good maybe some fab but hey work a little play alot... huh well thanks

 

There is absolutely no reason to buiild a 305 if you have to buy it. Now if you already had a running 305 modding it would make sense. But building a 305 makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

He didn't say he payed for it and even if he did it's not a bad investment, probably not the best performance alternative i agree but, i should see relatively high hp levels out of the free 305 i got with just the adition of a cam swap and head porting. dd2000 estimates about a 150hp increase with a good manifold/carb, decent headers & exhaust, cam and head porting. Matter in fact it actually shows 300hp with like 330trq with a xe256 cam and 10 to 1 compression with vortec flow #s (comprable to those of another ported 601 head i saw on this forum). I have 416s.

All it will cost me is comps cam kit (300$) + a manifold (150$) + carb less than (100$) used from a friend, + (350) for headers because, i'm picky about how my engine looks.

If you weren't super picky theres no reason you can't see+- 300hp out of a 305 for less than 700$. Imo that's real cheap for a 300+trq motor. You can't beat double the power output of a stock engine with about the same economy for under 1k imo....

 

Here is the kicker about all that. If you spent the exact same money on a 350, instead of a 305, you would make much more power. You are basically replacing everything but the heads, which you will then port.

Also, if you think you can get "double the HP" and keep the same fuel mileage, you are crazy. It isnt going to happen.

 

I agree that's why i said it ,may not be the best performance alternative. As for the same fuel milage i'd be willing to bet i won't be losing 1 mpg but, i can't prove it till mines in so stay tuned for me asking questions about the swap come summer time when i have money to collect parts. I'm only getting 15mpg though btw hehe.

My opinion is these engines were so inefficient from factory that just about anything aftermarket is a +. The cams are so so tiny.

Basically what i'm thinking is i'm changing the cam to a low end mid range sorta grind cam, and keeping stock valving. If driven under the same conditions (babying it) it should see near identical or possibly even better fuel milage under a perfect tune. That's my ideaology behind it anyways.....

 

I agree with the above, sell the engine and buy a chevy power plant for your car. It takes alot to get a fNord engine to move and if thats really close to 600hp you should have no problem getting some coin from it. My high school buddy who has an 88 firebird had a 76 bronco with a 351C under the hood. He tried for 2 years to build it to run but still a peg leged 3.08 geard stock Recon 350 GMC long box would hand him his lunch with no problems.

 

a 351 cleveland was a very potent engine, don't think brand superior think engineering superior. What do you think is better a 351cleveland or a 305?

Hands down it's the 351.

I agree it's probably worth a good bit of money if it truly pushes that kinda power but, you'll lose a few grand you spent on it by selling it easily. You can't make money selling non professionally rebuilt engines that's for sure.

 

Honestly, I can go further cheaper with a 305 and have an engine that stays togather longer. I build them all, usually not to the the degree this one in question is "built to" but if (have $$$$ will build). This guy here dumped $4k into this 300 to 351W build/swap and I think the weenie stock Vortec 305 in my sister Camaro would spank it. And I'm crazy too since I prefer a W over a C engine in the 351 variety.

 

That is a happy idealogy, but it isnt true. If you take it apart and put it in a better cam, but leave the stock valves and ports, you probably wont gain much. Go to big with the cam, which wouldnt be big at all, and you would lose power. Going past that, you will never be able to double an engines power output without suffering MPG drops. I think you will find it a bitter disappointment to build a 305 like that. All the money spent and less power.

 

well we will see i know a lot of 300+hp 350s using 1.94/1.50 valves so i don't think 1.84/1.5 is to bad on a very mild 305. I gurantee the engine will make me happy eithe way, doesn't take much to beat the factory design. Should be a pretty good increase in power, look at fasts little 305 in his van, using a poorer overall build (part wise) he's netting 17mpg with tbi running around in a 5,000lb van. I think it's safe to say that if i nail down the tune it will more than surpass my goals of a better overall engine.

As for swapping stock valving i know there would be a gain to be had but, i'm hoping to get away with not doing any expensive machine work so i'll stick with the 1.84/1.5 unless i can get a deal on 1.9+ with a 1.5+ valves. The heads will be ported and i have help at my whim on an experienced sbc guru who has ported numerous heads so they should be decent.

I understand your position, a 350 is a much better overal design because, of the bigger bores but, if you don't really need to remachine the whole block (like me and have 1 for free), it's pretty easy to make a respectable 300hp/300+ trq street build.

Btw I lowered my cfm values on dd2000 20 cfm lower than vortec heads because, i'm not expecting a perfect porting job and it still shows 310 hp and 350trq with that cam and those flow values. Not that that realy means anything because, it is less than theoretical but, if you compare it to others 305 builds it's more than realistic.

i'm not realy *building* my 305, it's a cam swap with home porting, aftermarket manifold and headers. Just about anything i buy will be interchangable for another sbc.

Anyways if any of you know a good reason why you can't net good milage out of a very very mild sbc post it because, i'm just not realy understanding it (no disrespect meant).

 

The trick to building any engine and having good overall expectations is volumetric efficiency. With the 305 as your platform of choice you need to over come the tiny valve and shrouding issues to increse the VE with the larger cam. Sure you will notice power gains with another cam but the compenets are not matched to the flow characteristics of the 305. In this situation VE will drop along with mileage. This isnt as much of an issue with the larger bore engines that also happen to add cubic inches to the mix. As we all know cubic inches = power.

 

if u want to build a decent 305 follow the my generation camaro in chevy hi performance magazine

 

This has strayed from the original topic. In keeping with the Board guidelines, let's put it to bed.

If you have questions regarding the line of discussion this thread has taken,