Okay, here’s the deal. I originally built my car as an all around street bruiser. It had a slightly modified ZZ4, Tremec TKO 5-speed, Strange 12-bolt with 3.73 gears, and a street/race competition suspension for cornering. However, about mid way through the project I got power hungry and dumped the ZZ for a supercharged 468 big block Chevy making 600 Hp with ease on pump gas. The big block install has been more involved then anticipated and is proving difficult for a true street setup. The blower comes through the hood (some of you might say, duh! ), the headers are side exits (yuck), and there are a ton of clearance issues that still haven’t been solved. In addition, the stick shift will simply annihilate the tires and the suspension is underutilized now. I am seriously considering going back to a small block, although a little more aggressive then the ZZ4. This will allow me to put the stock hood back on with only a slight bump in the hood and maintain handling. So here’s the question: (1) 450 Hp small block sleeper or (2) in your face 600 Hp blown big block? Keep in mind the small block is nearly maxxed out and the big block isn’t even breaking a sweat. The small block setup will bring my car back to super handling status (smoking Vettes in the corners). Make your vote because I’m having trouble choosing. It’s now or never because the next set of parts I order will lock me in to the big block.

Oh ya, I can reuse my Holley Projection 4Di with the small block too. I'll have to buy a carb for the big block.

Thanks.

 

Oh ya, I almost forgot to mention that if someone was serious about picking up my big block setup it would pretty much seal the decision for me. Just thought I would put some bait on the line and see what happens.

 

Go small block and make a sleeper. More fun when people pull up wondering what ya got and you beat the living crap out of them. Ask your self what you want do you need 600+ horses or is 400 horses enough? Hard ? to answer

 

I'd say keep the big block it's cooler cause most people don't think it can be done.

 

Keep the bigblock it is very cool!

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1991 Z28 ZZ4 with LPE superram base, SLP runners, LPE 58mm T-body,Random Technology ramair,TES headers,24#svo injectors,ZEX nitrous,Walbro 255lph f-pump,Accel AFPR,Random Technology catback,!cats,and mutch more.

 

Go for the sleeper.

Whats the point of a big-block that everyone knows is a supercharged big-block? With all you'd be giving away (as far as telling what you got), it would be a miracle to get any races. Also, as you pointed out, it will kill everything. Transmission, tires, etc (Not to metion having to go to GPM instead of MPG )

W/ the sleeper, you should have plenty to keep you happy and busy.

Clayton

 

Got some good points here. I appreciate the input. I've been doing this project for 2-1/2 years and I've gotten near sighted. So much so that it's hard to make a basic decision like this anymore.

El Guapo, I gotta agree with you. But then when sb406camaro86 says most people say it can't be done... DANG! It gives me all kinds of inspiration because it sounds like a challenge!

 

isn't that what camaros and firebirds are all about, power, handling, superiority ... go with the big block and smoke all the stang in your state. it's all about respect !!!

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89 Camaro RS Stock as a women with white panties
LT1 IS COMMING SOON.

 

my $.02 is small block all the way! bigblock is much more torquey (SP??) but you can do some wild stuff with a smallbolck as well. are you locked into a specific small block yet? or are you going to build an engine to meet your demands? (you got one layin around?) small block = less hassle to get into car, fuelinjection, better handling definitely small block
my baby will smoke the everlivin poop out of 99% of mudstains
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/gdm/

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87 z28 bowtie aluminum 420small block dry sump crower lt. wt. knife edged crank oliver lt wt rods brodix track 1's super ram intake slp 1 3/4 headers accel dfi art carr 700 r4 3.42 gears ssm sub frame/ladder bars.....other parts on the way ,soon to be finished!! couple more weeks!!!

 

No, I would start all over and get a fresh motor. I'd make the setup of the entire car just flow together perfect.

 

then i would go sick silly small block like my own, you could go smallblock exotic with /sc or turbos too? something else to think about. and it would still give you great drivability.
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/gdm

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87 z28 bowtie aluminum 420small block dry sump crower lt. wt. knife edged crank oliver lt wt rods brodix track 1's super ram intake slp 1 3/4 headers accel dfi art carr 700 r4 3.42 gears ssm sub frame/ladder bars.....other parts on the way ,soon to be finished!! couple more weeks!!!

 

why not just finish what you started?

 

I have two thoughts.Traditionally, the Camaro has been a package of handling and power.If I was starting from scratch I would go small block and biuld a sleeper.But, you allready started this project,you may as well finish it.Otherwise you will allways wounder what it would have been like.Later in life it might be a regret if you dont see it through.I say finish it, drive it for a while, then sell it(whole car) and start over. Build the sleeper with the money you get.Maybe strip some of the handling stuff off and save for a different car, and concentrate on traction equipment.

 

see my sig for my choice. As for sleeper...I tossed a 4 inch cowl hood on mine and guys still think I'm running my modded 305 from last year. My swap has given me MANY headaches and MANY sleepless nights....BUT...it's all worth it when some punk is laughing thinking it's "just" a small block....then open the hood, they shut-up pretty quick....you've done an awesome job so far. Carry on with it, I've done the swap myself and I STILL want to see how your car turns out. A Blown BBC? your one sick ****! lol

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85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes and a PILE of other goodies..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net/members/rob/rob_specs.html

 

Hey crazyrob75 u have any pics of your car maybe I've seen u around. U go crusing on sunday nights on portage and main? If so look for a purple camaro with 3" cowl and a banged up front ground effect.

 

Well, believe it or not I think I've come to a conclusion already.

If I finished what I started then I'd already have a 380 Hp small block in the car and have been driving it for the last 8 months . Actually, if I were to have regrets they would be about not building a sleeper rather then not having the big power of the big block. This is the last car I'm building for a long long time. I've wasted too much money in cars over the years and this one is my last hurrah. It's got the best stuff I've ever had or ever will have. Selling the car is not an option. This car could do anything and everything with a hot small block. I've been slack on this issue for a little while and that's why I asked for some input. Actually, El Guapo's comment hit me between the eyes. "With the sleeper, you should have plenty to keep you happy and busy." There is more truth to that statement then one realizes. In other words, you can't beat everyone and you can't be the baddest so just do something that will be enjoyable.... and ENJOY IT!!!! Time to enjoy my car. It's time for a nice little stroker small block with fuel injection. But I need to sell the big block before I can make my next move.... any takers?

Just as a side note I've already had a centrifugally supercharged car (500 Hp '94 Vette 6-speed) and I'll never do it again. The power band sucks and it's harder then hell to moderate tire spin. Turbo is way too expensive to get it right and a lot more custom work then I'm looking at right now. I appreciate your ideas though

 

LOL! Ya, maybe so.

 

yeah 406...I'm a religious Sunday night cruiser. I'm always at Minute Muffler on Portage. I have seen your car around. Take a look at the pics

http://www.bsronline.net

 

Do you know trevor moulder(mustang notch back runs high to mid 10's on juice) and bill(blue chevelle high 11's on nos and mid 12's on motor)? bill works upstairs in river city performance.

 

Qwk i think your car is beautiful and that bigblock just screams power, i disagree with you on the fact of going with small block because there is nothing that amazes me more then a bigblock in a 3rdgen, cause its possible but yet a large challenge, and could you imagine the scream of that engine at WOT? That sound alone would make me want the bigblock, I've never been in a car with a block as big as yours but i was in a 427 and that sound is awesome. If you want to back off of the 600+ horsies of the monster of an engine that you have now, get rid of the supercharger and juice it, Just another idea, i hope i persuaded you in some way cause that engine is just what tops off that car of yours.

 

Thanks Adams87. Yes, it's always persuading when someone likes your combo. And I'll agree that the blower just peeking out from the engine bay is just too cool. But I think I may have gone overboard here. I'll never discount strong reasoning and I appreciate your thoughts. But I see more advantages to the small block setup at this point. It's just not a straight forward task to make a true street car out of a big block setup in one of these cars. I just needed someone else to say, Yes, go back to small block. Now I've got to admit that if Lemons Headers can come up with a Tri-Y shorty header for me it's going to solve a lot of problems.

 

Hmmmm, guess not everyone is cut out for a big block.

------------------
88 427 Camaro
12.18 @ 113mph 1.75 60ft
Currently installing 3.73's into my 9 bolt (YES,it is a 9 bolt & YES they are 3.73's, not 3.70. 4.11's to follow soon )
www.koolmeister.com

 

ummm.....i work at Minute Muffler, so yeah I know them lol

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85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes and a PILE of other goodies..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net/members/rob/rob_specs.html

 

The question is, if you back out of this now will you regret it??

How many blown big block 3rd gens are out there?? Not many. I'd have to say that if you've already put this much time/$$ into it go ahead and finish the project. I'm sure you wouldn't regret it after you fired that beast up for the first time!

Just my 2 cents...

 

Qwktrip....I'm so dissappointed....
Keep the big block.
was exhaust the last thing you had to do?
If Lemon headers cant come through I'm ready to spend $1000 I dont have...to custom make headers to fit!
How often do you drive around and see a BBC 3rd gen camaro?
Dare to be different! This is what separates the men and the boys.....

[This message has been edited by Camaroman (edited July 20, 2001).]

 

hey 88 427...... 12.18in the 1/4
what would you say your engine is pushin? is it built , whats done to it true horses not the "it said the k&n would add 35 hp"
i really want to shoot for high tens in the 1/4 and
what kinda tire you runnin at the track?
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/gdm/
and uhhhh wanna race when im done? kekkekekee
just kiddin

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87 z28 bowtie aluminum 420small block dry sump crower lt. wt. knife edged crank oliver lt wt rods brodix track 1's super ram intake slp 1 3/4 headers accel dfi art carr 700 r4 3.42 gears ssm sub frame/ladder bars.....other parts on the way ,soon to be finished!! couple more weeks!!!

 

88 427 Camaro, that sounds like a direct challenge.

Lemons IS a custom headers place. If they don't come up with something you're completely out of luck. They will cost at least $800 for a pair. I probably didn't relate that info in the other thread. The Lemons headers aren't for the faint hearted.

I don't have enough ambition to go through more trouble then I already have for something that people won't even see when the hood is down. Ya, they'll know it's blown but they won't have any idea it's a big block. To finish the big block I've got many thousands of $$$ to go. I'm sick of spending money. I've got a truck load of money in this car. It's time to stop the madness. I can run 11s on a street driven 383 and have my AC and fuel injection. The next weekend I can go turn corners at the road course. On Monday when it's 40*F outside I can Turn the key and drive away. That's the good life, baby. I think the big block limits me way too much.

 

Alright so you've given up the chance of the bigblock if you're going SB you should at least still stay original and go with a 406!

 

I can do the same thing with a 383 and I will be able to sleep at night knowing I don't have siamesed cylinders. I've got a stick shift car with pretty steep gearing. It will like Hp and rpms more then torque. Plus, it doesn't matter what you got when the lights count down.... it's just whether you win or not and originality don't count for squat.

 

I can't exactly have my plates say QWKTRIP anymore because it might be a bit embarrassing when the right guy sucks my doors off. So it's down to these two unless you guys got some good ideas out there.




[This message has been edited by QwkTrip (edited July 20, 2001).]

 

It made 500hp/520lb ft on the dyno with 87 octane, factory cast iron heads (p&p), 9:1 compression, dual plane intake, 750 vac sec carb. At the time it went 12.18 it had 3.27 gears, 2400 converter. Don't know the weight though.

Challenge? no worries

------------------
88 427 Camaro
12.18 @ 113mph 1.75 60ft
Currently installing 3.73's into my 9 bolt (YES,it is a 9 bolt & YES they are 3.73's, not 3.70. 4.11's to follow soon )
www.koolmeister.com

 

wow, i want a 427.
my dream engine is actually the aluminum 427 in the copo cars.

 

hey qwktrp.
my friend justin just built a
507hp-548/ftlbsTQ 406ci Small block
go with that and use AFR heads and an all Forged lower end.
yes his job is also an engine builder but any body can do it.
go to amerspeed.com and look at what he builds everyday, every engine coming out of there he built, the owner does all the paper work and there is one other guy who does the boring milling and dynoing. thats it the three of them can build anything you want.

but SBC is my vote, dont get me wrong your car is amazing. but the sleeper effect works much better

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Jarrad
1990 IROC-Z L98 350 TPI
TH-700R4
G92- 9 Bolt Borg-Warner 3.27gears
Bright Red Hardtop/ Grey Interior


DAILY DRIVER: 1991 GREY S10 2.5L/5SPD -FOR SALE.

 

go 600hp

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1988 Sport Coupe 305 TBI
K&N
Flowmaster exhaust


Daily driver:
1988 K1500 5.7 4x4 shortbed flowmaster cat-back gutted cat.
AOL: RyanNH84

 

Qwktrip, you do what you got to do but you need to know...Thats a beautiful engine.... As far as a plate is concerned how about "NASTY!". That should get generate some interest...

[This message has been edited by multi-tasking (edited July 23, 2001).]

 

I have been looking at the 383 Torquer 480 and the 383 Enforcer 500. Neat motors. But the only problem is that they are a bit spendy. Does your friend build on the side or happen to have another one of those sitting around? That would be something very worthwhile. But the big block must sell first and as of yet I have no bites. By the way, I don't expect you to answer my question. But you can e-mail me at littleborgy@yahoo.com if you have some interesting info along those lines. Even a trade for my big block would be doable.

[This message has been edited by QwkTrip (edited July 23, 2001).]

 

it would be better to go through american speed, because it would be a beotch for him to ship the engine to you, and amerspeed does all of that and they even dyno the engine. its not really too high priced for the engine. you are getting everything perfect and a warranty can you beat that?

and email them about your needs, i dont know if he has enought time to build one on the side.
he is just about ready to paint and assemble his IROC.

 

I think you should stay with the big block because no one would really think of it being in the car that you have.

 

Maybe we can still change your mind....?!?!?!
BIG BLOCK BIG BLOCK BIG BLOCK BIG BLOCK.......!!!!!

ps. I'm starting the BBC swap next month so, please don't break my heart and tell me that it's too hard.

 

I would say you have a enough votes now, I will be closeing this since it really is not tech,But I will cast a vote before I go and that vote is for the small block, I am into a better handling car my self, and that small block will still make your car move. I am not into the whole blower though the hood though.

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86Z28, GM 350, Jet perf Q-jet & chip Dual snorkel air cleaner, Edelbrock performer intake, Edelbrock headers, Edelbrock cat-back, Off road pipe, MSD 6AL, Accel Super Coil, Taylor Spiro-pro wires, Rapid fire plugs, Jet fan switch, World class t-5, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, Ram Flywheel, Center force dual friction clutch,Aluminum drive shaft, BW disc rear 3.45's & a posi, PBR calipers, Earls braided brake lines, Polygrapite bushings all the way around, poly tranny mount & torque arm mount, Hotchkis lower control arms & panhard rod, Rancho limiter straps, KYB struts & shocks, Gm Wonderbar, Edelbrock strut tower brace, SSM sub frame connectors, Jamex lowering springs, Carbon metallic brake pads, Crossed drilled rotors, Mobil 1 Tranny fluid & motor oil, GM syntheic rear end oil, K&N, Grant stering wheel, 1,200 watt system, Jet Black Paint, 91 Z28 rims, 92 wing, Tinted windows.