Grab a timing light, makes short work of things.

I've found with the Vortech heads that 8-10* BTDC at idle is about all the timing advance you want to give it. Should fire right off and run like a champ with that. They're just so good at mixing the fuel that you don't need combustion any earlier.

-cal30sniper

 

lol i had a timing light hooked up in the video and it never flashed so i think the gun is bad... i thought i had her at 0-6 before i started but i knocked the distributor cap around a little and it messed me up, i tried advancing it while it was turning lol should probably have turned the other way evidently... ill get back on it friday am after work... thanks again... does anyone know what size npt plug i need to get rid of that ugly plugged hose in the fron of my intake manifold??? im thinking 1/2" but im not sure

 

For the heater hoses on the intake and water pump, i just bought an assortment from autozone. They're chrome looking but work well. I've been using them for over a year without issues. I am thinking 1/2" is right though.

 

thanks blue ill have to get over to AZ this weekend, i have a giftcard

 

retarded the timing to about 0 by eye, she fired right up thanks guys! now to get her tuned... shes got 7 or more psi of fuel at idle or just above, so that needs to come down some, the idle needs to come up... gotta read up on how to tune the carb... the belts need tightening too... how do u guys think she sounds>? it was kinda too loud for me to make a real determination, i wanna get the rest of the exhaust on her and pull her out of the garage to see how she sounds without the echo, im sure my neighbors loved it though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCh0-lTWSk

 

looks good man, and congrats. i remember how it felt the first time i fired my 84.

 

thanks blue

 

ok guys havent updated this for a LONG time so here goes... she runs there was an isssue with the timing, but i got a gun and got her timed so she starts right up with a quick turn of the key and she stays idling between 500-700 rpms surginging a little... had a couple of fuel leaks just from not tightening the fittings into the fpr enough and a couple hose clamps werent tight enough, got those issues fixed, shes got about 3.5-4psi pretty consistently so its got enough fuel for now... problem is, you give it gas she dies... she will idle on her own, and if you give gas very gradually she will respond slowly, but if you give her alot to rev, she shuts right off??? im pretty sure the carb just needs to be adjusted and i happen to know 0 about adjusting it sans idle adjustment screw on the top... anyone got any ideas?? havent even tried to put her in gear yet as im sure shell just shut down, the project has taken a back seat to alot of other projects, but im moving so now its time to get her goin so i can enjoy her a little this summer.... thanks for any and all help you guys have been great this entire time and she def wouldnt be this far without all my TGO friends and comrades
btw ive been milling over the idea of installing a fuel tank from a tbi car to give more fuel pressure what do you guys think? good idea? is the wiring pretty stright forward? just power and ground?? id love to use an LS1 plastic tank, but the issue of making the fuel gauge work just seems like alot of work to me

 

im guessing nobodys watching because i took so long LOL o well... im switching to a 750 holley mech sec man choke, with a non comp controlled HEI... i dont see the point in buying $300 on tools to tune the Qjet when i can get a holley and a hei for that and be able to tune it with the tools i have... its not a daily driver so im not too worried about the torque converter lockup... and im planning on swapping the 700r4 for a T5 or T56 when cash allows... so my carb HEI computer and esc are all for sale, what should i ask for them??? and still need the info on the fuel tank, because i still think swapping the tank out for a tbi or LS1 tank is my best bet... thanks for any help

 

I don't really know what the computer stuff is worth, so i can't really help there. Whats the difference between your tank and the tbi tank? Your fuel pressure is a little low for sure, if I'm not mistaken you can just swap your pump with a better pump since you already have a regulator.

 

yeah idk actually, im trying to do it cheap and easy as possible, thats why i figured id just change the tank... PLUS im not sure about the swap as ive read conflicting info about what my car has NOW, ive read that there is some sort of "carb pickup" and 5.7Lkid posted that there is a "pump" in 87 LG4 cars... im thinking that since i have any fuel at all it must mean i have a pump??? i wanna get this done now while i still dont have an exhuast hooked up...

 

I forgot that you didn't have a mechanical fuel pump, that you have any pressure at all means there is a pump in tank. Iirc, they used a low pressure pump as a pusher so the block mounted pump didn't have to work as hard. I paid $100 for the walbro 255 in my lt1 car, there is a cheaper 255 on ebay sold as a TRE 255, I've heard of guys having good luck with them, but didn't want to risk it on my daily driver. Also trap door mod for the win.

 

ok LOL you got me, whats the trapdoor mod??? and if i get rid of the computer i will have to rewire the pump correct??? AND will 255lph be too much for my setup??

 

The trap door mod is when you cut a hole in the floor over the pump so you can replace it without dropping the rearend, exhaust, etc. You'll have to find a keyed source for the pump to get power, I'm unsure of exactly how to do that, as all my thirdgens have been purely mechanical pumps.

 

LOL ok i get ya... i dont know if i wanna do tah as my car is all original and rust free :/ but MAYBE if i can do it so it looks nice

 

Heres a trapdoor mod that looks good, and is functional. Mines been open for the last year, no exhaust fumes or anythying.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-in...trap-door.html

 

$300 on tools? What the heck are you talking about?

A dwell meter can be had for $20. You can make the carb adjusting tools, or buy them for $15.

You need a timing light one way or the other.

On the other hand, to properly tune a non-computer carb, you either need a wideband, or a dyno session. Either way, there's your $300.

Do what you like, but I'm not going to sit here quietly while you try to justify yourself with non-truths.

 

57 i just finished reading a thread in which you posted that you need the dwell meter, which costs $230... plus the tools that I cant make myself because i have no idea what they look like or where u even put them... add that to the fact that even if i wanted to take my computer controlled qjet to a mechanic to be tuned, none of them around here can even do it properly... so if you could explain it all to me nice and simple then ill keep the computer controlled carb, first how about we adress the fact that it runs fine until you add throttle??? what would be the cause of that? and what can i do besides buying a dwell meter?

 

heres a $45 dwell meter from summit, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Actron-Ignit...item564954ed6e is this what i need??? and WHERE do i put it... after that i guess i need the special tools???

 

btw just FYI this car is not a street car it doesnt even have to pass a VISUAL inspection because it is registered as a classic collector in PA, i will probably drive it on the street every now and again, and to the track (45 min drive') once in a while but it hasnt been driven 1 mile in 4 years and i dont see that changing an awfull lot, it will go out on nice days for a short spirited drive, and to the track every now and again, probably more often untill it gets completely tuned, ALSO i have a 383 which i am in the process of building which will be getting the vortec heads from this build with CRAZY porting and a custom ground cam w/ longtubes etc... is there THAT MUCH room for growth with this carb/ distributor? because everything ive been reading has been saying im already on the edge as far as camshafts/ displacement... i know the carb flows 750 that doesnt bother me, its the computer that worries me more then the carb, and im not paying for a custom tune EVER. i know naf runs pretty much the same combo with his Qjet, he does have a different cam though... ALSO id like to be rid of all the extra wiring in the car, ive ditched the HVAC controls, yet the wiring is still in the engine bay because im not sure what i can get rid of without messing with the comp...

 

An Auto Xray costs about $230. A dwell meter is cheap, though.

The dwell meter positive lead is connected to the green connector that doesn't connect to anything over by the heater box. The negative lead is grounded. Set the meter to the 6 cylinder scale, adjust the IAB (must be warmed up and in closed loop) to 30 degrees (which corresponds to 50% duty cycle).

Now, all I was saying is the tools required to tune a CC q-jet aren't $300. I wasn't saying you shouldn't put on a Holley. For a strip-primary car, or a T5 car, a double pumper is probably the better choice. But, for street/performance for the least expense, the CC q-jet would be the better choice.

(FWIW, I put a Holley spread bore double pumper on my ZZ4 clone for a couple of months, driving it to work every day and racing it on weekends. The q-jet ran as well on the track as the Holley - well, at least after I figured out the q-jet had a bad choke pull-off, anyway - and the q-jet was much simpler to start and drive.)

 

ok, do i NEED the auto xray??? do u think i can tune this thing to run well WITHOUT it??? what are the other tools i need??? i have a spare $100 i can spend right now if i can get the tools to tune it so she will stay running when i give her gas... then maybe i can address the fuel starvation properly... my original plan was to grab an HEI and a used holley and put them on and go from there, i just got a raise and the weather is getting better so i will be getting more side work to fund the car as well so it should be a good summer, i reallyjust gotta pick a direction and get going, so maybe i can see the track THIS year

 

how about this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACTRON-AUTO-...item2a1b9fa6a2

and 57 please dont think i was badmouthing the Qjet as i know it is an awesome piece and gets really bad publicity all the time, its just that the more i read the more i think that the computer just wont keep up with the mods i have planned for the future and believe me i would love to spend themoney i would spend on the carb and hei on a nitrous kit and a set of slicks, or even subframe connectors... but shes gotta run right before i get things like that

 

so while waiting on a response about that...

i started to remove the dash today, ive already started painting all the interior plastics with Krylon Fusion... i figured would take out the HVAC controls, and the vents and heater core because im not using it anymore and i want to be rid of any weight possible LOL well as im unbolting the dash, i find that it is actually plastic rivoted, i have all the bolts out and the rivots are all thats holding it in... do i chisel these rivots away or is there something im not doing???? ill get some pics up on monday if you guys dont know what im talking about, and btw i got the label off the computer.... reads 257074709 37BG 9/3/86 so i guess its an 86 computer and not the good 87 one huh?

 

You don't need an Auto Xray, but they can come in handy.

The dwell meter you linked would be fine.

 

ok actron dwell meter is in the mail... what about the other tools needed to make the adjustments... said i could make them, but i dont even have my bench vise setup in my new house, id rather buy to make it simpler and when i come home from vacation ill have evrything i need... what else do i need besides this http://quadrajetparts.com/rochester-...5c1e22745d95fb ?

 

All you'll need to start is the dwell meter, a voltage meter (the dwell meter may do this) and the funky driver you linked to.

Set your timing with the est disconnected at around 0 to 4 degrees advanced. Reconnect the EST.
Set your idle speed where it's comfortable, hopefully around 600-700, maybe 800.
Check your TPS setting by probing the B and C (middle/bottom) on the pigtail. You can do this with a set of needle through the back of the connector. With engine off, but key in run the TPS voltage should be near 0.40 volts with the throttle resting on the curb idle set point. It should increase linearly as the throttle is opened and be near 4.0 volts at WOT.
Start with idle mixture screws each at 4 turns out. Set IAB at four turns out. Warm up the engine and connect the dwell meter to the green diagnostic lead near the blower motor. If it's in closed loop the needle will waver back and forth slightly as the ECM adjusts for O2 voltage. You want to adjust the IAB 1/8th of a turn at a time until the dwell hovers nearest 50% or 30 degrees on the V6 scale.
If you can't get it to go into closed loop (needle wavering) set your idle mixture screws at 2 1/2 turns out. Go through the full range of turns with the IAB starting at 2 1/2 turns out on it. Turn it 1/8 turn at a time, give the motor a chance to respond then open it a little more. If it doesn't find a sweet spot after you've gotten to about 7 turns out on the IAB, start over at 3 turns out on the mixture screws. In the end you want to be nearest 4 turns out on each, not over 7 turns on anything.

Once in closed loop, turning the IAB OUT will allow more AIR IN, leaning the mixture and the dwell meter should respond RICHER (lower dwell). Higher dwell means the rods are in the jets a greater percentage of the time, restricting fuel.

Play with it some and report back.

 

ok kool i got the dah torn all out right now, gonna clean it & paint it, i removed the heater core and all the controls & wiring for it and all the vents in the dash, im guessing about 35LBs deleted... i work 48 hours, starting wednesday then friday i start an 8 day vacation, when i get back ill have all the tools in the mail, and ill get started on that tuning, thank you

 

I'm subscribing because I want to see where you get.

Your engine dieing problem seems to me to be because of your helper pump in the tank. I don't think it delivers the volume you need.

I'd drop the tank and drop in a pump like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150798694151...84.m1438.l2649

Its the stock Vortec pump. Its easy on the budget and is pretty reliable. I have one running a TBI car right now, and I plan on upgrading that car to TPI in the future.

I don't see the benefit in swapping your tank out unless you are swapping to an LSx setup and trying to match the system perfectly.

Do lots of reading in the carb section of the forums. And then read it again. I have read through it a hundred times and I still keep finding new things I didn't see before. The CC Quadrajet is a great carb and it can run more HP than your engine is putting out. Once you learn about these carbs, you'll likely stick with them.

Good luck man! Keep going!

 

gotta update this, its got a tpi pump now having some wiring issues now need to know what a main relay looks like if someone could post a pic that would be awesome

 

ok nevermind on that one, does anyone know where i can get a wiring schematic? i want to delete the wiring of the things i wont be using (HVAC, AIR EGR etc)

 

I got my genuine GM service manuals off of eBay at fairly reasonable prices. I'd search there if I were you. That factory manual has the best Firebird wiring schematics you can get.

 

great info thank you

 

so a couple friends and I spent about 5 hours in the garage today putting the dash back in (took the dash out removed all the hvac stuff and painted everything months ago) so after the install we hooked up the battery and tried to turn her over... she turned right over no problem, but without any gas input she doesnt want to run found a small leak at the fuel pressure regulator so i took all the fittings out, teflon taped them and put them back on, no fuel leaks now
the fuel pressure gauge at the carb is jumping from 3psi up so that should be ok... what way do i turn to increase pressure? (sorry i forgot and i cant find the instruction sheet that came with it lol)
i have the IAB and the idle enrichment screws at 4 turns out....
couldnt find the diagnostic port to plug in the dwell meter into as ive removed the heater(naf told me its a green plug somewhere near the pcm harness so ill look for it tomorrow) also, no idea how to check the tps anyone got picks of how to do that?? very close now im hoping to have her on the road this spring

 

think you could scan the schematics and post them here please?? need them for the shifter/transmission( i have a B&M Pro Stick waiting to be installed), and the dash/ gauge cluster as well as the engine bay harness

as soon as shes moving on her own power im going to strip the wiring harness down of all the unnessecary things(deleted features etc) try and run everything neatly to smooth up the whole engine bay

 

AND...
got some new parts waiting to be installed incase anyones interested

LS1 Front Brakes- need my hubs machined down and my spindles cut/drilled/tapped for them(made the bracket at work)

Alston SFCs-waiting till she moves on her own power to drive her to work and use the lift/welder

Full PST poly bushing kit and suspension rebuild kit- again waiting for the lift

B&M Pro Stick Shifter- need wiring schematics

still on the list of needs are;
13" steering wheel
s10 manual steering box
astro van steering shaft
adjustable panhard rod
adjustable Torque Arm
poly engine and tranny mounts
UMI subframe connectors
driveshaft safety loop
4 new tires lol
spring for the brake proportioning valve
astro van hydroboost
10 pt roll cage
adjustable shocks and struts
lowering springs
front sway bar (i want one better then the ws6 bar, any suggestions?)
etc etc etc LOL


yeah after all that she will need paint

 

so happy for all this

 

just picked up a factory service manual for 1987 Pontiac Firebirds
$32.50 shipped

 

Good job on that service manual. You won't regret that for the remainder of time you keep that car. Trust me on that one.

Please take pictures and document that LS1 brake swap. I really want to do that one, too!

--Good luck!

 

thanks man, ill try on the pics, but unfortunately i dont have a camera

 

You can get a cheap digital camera off of eBay cheaper than the service manual. Its becoming an essential tool nowadays, especially in forums where you can post "What do I do now?" photos.

Good luck on getting this bird done. Keep us updated.

 

Before worrying about adjusting fuel pressure, 3 things. First, where is the pressure gauge reading? Atop the engine? Just after the pump? Second, is this a Q-Jet? If so, they like 3.5 psi, and don't like much over over 4 psi. Third, what regulator are you using?

 

CC Qjet check
3psi at idle, guage is located just before carb inlet
QuickFuel bypass regulator

today i replumbed and moved the fuel pressure regulator to a better spot. there are now no leaks. and i found that clockwise increases fuel pressure on the regulator. i did find that green diagnostic plug ill have to play with the dwell meter tomorrow. i did some research that leads me to believe that she might not getting spark, maybe its the timing? idk i will pull a plug wire and find out tomorrow as well. note on the timing, for some reason the distributor will not bolt completely down, with the bolt all the way in the distributor still moves a little. so im thinking that could have something to do with it, however before i pulled the dash i had the timing well enough so that if you turned the key it would start and stay running i hit the distributor and lost that mark though so now its back to square one with that.

 

Find out why before going further.

Before firing it back up, pull a few plugs and see how they look. Bad timing/fuel can gunk them up quick. They may need to be cleaned.

Engine will run with timing pretty far out of whack. Get it fired up after fixing your dist bolt then turn it til it idles well enough to set the timing.

 

Better pull that distributor out and check the block with a flashlight to make sure something is not chewed up somewhere the distributor sits. Check your intake also and make sure that its not chewed up on the flat flange where the distributor lays. Ditto for the distributor itself.

I agree with naf; fix this first before going on.

 

pulled the distributor just now, no intake to distributor gasket, getting one from napa in the morning and ill resinstall and start from scratch.

 

ok shes all back together, new distributor gasket etc...

starts no problem with turn of a key, surges a little while and shuts off, she will rev if given gas but if u let off the pedal she dies and will just die in about 45 secs or so if no throttle input is given... im going to use nafs above post to start tuning today. but a quick question, will the screw on top of the carb (iab?) raise the engine idle by turning it out? cause im going to raise the idle way up to get her to stay running so i can try to adjust the carb if that makes sense, just seems like thats what needs to be done
i have everything at 4 turns out now and im guessing timing is right around 0-6 degrees tdc cause she turns right over and runs with the turn of the key, really close now guys
btw my 02 sensor is not hooked up and i cannot find the wire to plug it into i think its supposed to be a purple wire??? anyone have any ideas?

 

Hey Flip, I'm jumping in after a long time no talking... 4 turns out is okay but you could back the two idle mixture screws to about 3&1/2 and probably be okay (factory specs were even leaner; they were trying to get clean air standards I guess).

On the screw on top of the carb let's you set idle-air mixture. There is a tool that was made to get to a basic setting for this screw but it probably isn't going to be easy to locate. It's basically a piece of bent wire that hooks over to show you the proper depth to turn the idle-air mixture screw down to. I posted how to make that tool awhile back. Once I had that it really helped me set my carb up enough to get it going (dwell meter after that for fine tuning).

The single O-2 sensor wire on my car is located below the brake fluid metal tubing and steering column. It rests on the side of wheel well. Mine looked more black then purple because of all the dirt on it, though it actually was purple when cleaned up. Maybe your O-2 wire has fallen down close to the fire wall?

 

Hey Scoot thanks man! i just found the o2 sensor wire, it was down there where you said it would be now i have an issue, i bought the headers with the o2 installed from a 89 LB9 car it doesnt have the plug from the o2, should i splice this wire to the sensor wire without a plug?
if i wanted to get a "heated 02 sensor" what part would i get and would it come ready to plug into my wire?
cant do any tuning today unfortunately, the wife works overnights and shes asleep in the bedroom, which is above the garage

 

You can splice it in no problem. The O2 wire should have come out of the same loom that the TPS connector did, then stretch across the VC to the O2.

Use the curb idle screw on the bottom left of the carb near the throttle cable to set the idle speed. Make sure it's off the fast idle cam, choke open, and fully warmed up before setting.

If it's not wanting to stay running check your timing first. Did you set it with the ESC connector disconnected from the distributor. Should idle kinda low that way then when reconnected the ECM will add some timing for a smoother, higher idle.

A heated O2 will require splicing in a 12V (ignition in 'run') source and a ground.