Swapping to a 350
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Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 47
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From: Cape Cod, MA
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LO3
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73
Swapping to a 350
Hey guys im wondering what you think about this. Im switching to a carbed 350. I have a FI 2.8 right now.
Im removing a lot of the electrical and i have this idea to make it as simplified as possible. Do you think removing the blower motor and heater core is going too far? At the moment the entire interior is stripped. I'm not turning it into a race car really, but i like the idea of simplicity and the less there is the less there is to fix. Anything else you guys recommend removing as well?
Im removing a lot of the electrical and i have this idea to make it as simplified as possible. Do you think removing the blower motor and heater core is going too far? At the moment the entire interior is stripped. I'm not turning it into a race car really, but i like the idea of simplicity and the less there is the less there is to fix. Anything else you guys recommend removing as well?
Last edited by Video; May 2, 2013 at 07:13 PM.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 175
From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: Swapping to a 350
If you're not turning it into a race car then why pull 'everything' out? Its not like the heater systems are bad on these cars. If you're willing to pull it all, then I don't think it would be that hard for you to repair it if need be. What if you need to defog the windshield? I'd keep it. If you don't want A/C for simplicity, I understand. Then get a nonA/C heater box.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,359
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From: Pennsylvania
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Rebuilt 350 going in after paint
Transmission: WCT5, 7k & counting behind the 350
Axle/Gears: 4thgen disc rear w/ 3.73 Posi
Re: Swapping to a 350
I agree with aliceempire, there's really no need to remove a working blower system on a street car. If you remove all the AC stuff, it frees up a lot of space, and you can easily route the remaining wires out of sight.
Also, some states require a working defroster to pass vehicle inspection. PA is one of them, not sure where you're at, but that is another thing to take into consideration.
Also, some states require a working defroster to pass vehicle inspection. PA is one of them, not sure where you're at, but that is another thing to take into consideration.
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From: Readsboro, VT
Car: 85 IROC-Z / 88 GTA
Engine: 403 LSx (Pending) / 355 Tuned Port
Transmission: T56 Magnum (Pending) / T5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 / ?
Re: Swapping to a 350
Every time I see the hood up on a street car and I see the heater box missing, the phrase "hatchet job" just keeps cycling through my head and I lose interest in the car. 9 times out of 10 a street car without a heater box is missing a bunch of other useful stuff too, usually because the owner was too lazy or too stupid to keep it working. As others have said, that heater box serves a very useful purpose. It allows you to drive your car in extended weather conditions that would otherwise require you to park it.
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iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 5
From: Pennsylvania
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Rebuilt 350 going in after paint
Transmission: WCT5, 7k & counting behind the 350
Axle/Gears: 4thgen disc rear w/ 3.73 Posi
Re: Swapping to a 350
Every time I see the hood up on a street car and I see the heater box missing, the phrase "hatchet job" just keeps cycling through my head and I lose interest in the car. 9 times out of 10 a street car without a heater box is missing a bunch of other useful stuff too, usually because the owner was too lazy or too stupid to keep it working. As others have said, that heater box serves a very useful purpose. It allows you to drive your car in extended weather conditions that would otherwise require you to park it.
I have removed all the unnecessary(to me) components from my engine bay since I went carb'd, and would have removed the heater components as well if I wasn't required to have a functioning defroster to pass inspection. I have switched to a non-AC box though, and will be smoothing everything in the engine bay when I replace the engine soon.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 598
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From: Permian Basin
Car: 82 Camaro Z28
Engine: LU5 - Crossfire 305
Transmission: 200c - 3 Speed Automatic
Re: Swapping to a 350
Federal Law REQUIRES a working defroster for vehicles driven on public roads in the USA. Just because the law isn't enforced, doesn't mean it doesn't exist...
In the end, it is your car. Do what makes YOU happy!!! (as log as it isn't a safety issue that may potentially harm others)...
Code of Federal Regulations
PART 571 — FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS
Title 49 - Transportation
§ 571.103 Standard No. 103; Windshield defrosting and defogging systems.
top
S1. Scope. This standard specifies requirements for windshield defrosting and defogging systems.
S2. Application. This standard applies to passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses.
S3. Definitions. Road load means the power output required to move a given motor vehicle at curb weight plus 180 kilograms on level, clean, dry, smooth portland cement concrete pavement (or other surface with equivalent coefficient of surface friction) at a specified speed through still air at 20 degrees Celsius, and standard barometric pressure (101.3 kilopascals) and includes driveline friction, rolling friction, and air resistance.
S4. Requirements. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, each passenger car shall meet the requirements specified in S4.1, S4.2, and S4.3, and each multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, and bus shall meet the requirements specified in §4.1.
(b) Each passenger car, multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, and bus manufactured for sale in the noncontinental United States may, at the option of the manufacturer, have a windshield defogging system which operates either by applying heat to the windshield or by dehumidifying the air inside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, in lieu of meeting the requirements specified by paragraph (a) of this section.
S4.1 Each vehicle shall have a windshield defrosting and defogging system.
S4.2 Each passenger car windshield defrosting and defogging system shall meet the requirements of section 3 of SAE Recommended Practice J902, “Passenger Car Windshield Defrosting Systems,” August 1964, when tested in accordance with S4.3, except that “the critical area” specified in paragraph 3.1 of SAE Recommended Practice J902 shall be that established as Area C in accordance with Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 104, “Windshield Wiping and Washing Systems,” and “the entire windshield” specified in paragraph 3.3 of SAE Recommended Practice J902 shall be that established as Area A in accordance with §571.104.
S4.3 Demonstration procedure. The passenger car windshield defrosting and defogging system shall be tested in accordance with the portions of paragraphs 4.1 through 4.4.7 of SAE Recommended Practice J902, August 1964, or SAE Recommended Practice J902a, March 1967, applicable to that system, except that—
(a) During the first 5 minutes of the test:
(1) For a passenger car equipped with a heating system other than a heat exchanger type that uses the engine's coolant as a means to supply the heat to the heat exchanger, the warm-up procedure is that specified by the vehicle's manufacturer for cold weather starting, except that connection to a power or heat source external to the vehicle is not permitted.
(2) For all other passenger cars, the warm-up procedure may be that recommended by the vehicle's manufacturer for cold weather starting.
(b) During the last 35 minutes of the test period (or the entire test period if the 5-minute warm-up procedure specified in paragraph (a) of this section is not used),
(1) For a passenger car equipped with a heating system other than a heat exchanger type that uses the engine's coolant as a means to supply the heat to the heat exchanger, the procedure shall be that specified by the vehicle's manufacturer for cold weather starting, except that connection to a power or heat source external to the vehicle is not permitted.
(2) For all other passenger cars, either—
(i) The engine speed shall not exceed 1,500 r.p.m. in neutral gear; or
(ii) The engine speed and load shall not exceed the speed and load at 40 kilometers per hour in the manufacturer's recommended gear with road load;
(c) A room air change of 90 times per hour is not required;
(d) The windshield wipers may be used during the test if they are operated without manual assist;
(e) One or two windows may be open a total of 25 millimeters;
(f) The defroster blower may be turned on at any time; and
(g) The wind velocity is at any level from 0 to 3 kilometers per hour.
(h) The test chamber temperature and the wind velocity shall be measured, after the engine has been started, at the forwardmost point of the vehicle or a point 914 millimeters from the base of the windshield, whichever is farther forward, at a level halfway between the top and bottom of the windshield on the vehicle centerline.
[36 FR 22902, Dec. 2, 1971, as amended at 40 FR 12992, Mar. 24, 1975; 40 FR 32336, Aug. 1, 1975; 50 FR 48775, Nov. 27, 1985; 59 FR 11006, Mar. 9, 1994; 60 FR 13642, Mar. 14, 1995]
In the end, it is your car. Do what makes YOU happy!!! (as log as it isn't a safety issue that may potentially harm others)...
Code of Federal Regulations
PART 571 — FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS
Title 49 - Transportation
§ 571.103 Standard No. 103; Windshield defrosting and defogging systems.
top
S1. Scope. This standard specifies requirements for windshield defrosting and defogging systems.
S2. Application. This standard applies to passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses.
S3. Definitions. Road load means the power output required to move a given motor vehicle at curb weight plus 180 kilograms on level, clean, dry, smooth portland cement concrete pavement (or other surface with equivalent coefficient of surface friction) at a specified speed through still air at 20 degrees Celsius, and standard barometric pressure (101.3 kilopascals) and includes driveline friction, rolling friction, and air resistance.
S4. Requirements. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, each passenger car shall meet the requirements specified in S4.1, S4.2, and S4.3, and each multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, and bus shall meet the requirements specified in §4.1.
(b) Each passenger car, multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, and bus manufactured for sale in the noncontinental United States may, at the option of the manufacturer, have a windshield defogging system which operates either by applying heat to the windshield or by dehumidifying the air inside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, in lieu of meeting the requirements specified by paragraph (a) of this section.
S4.1 Each vehicle shall have a windshield defrosting and defogging system.
S4.2 Each passenger car windshield defrosting and defogging system shall meet the requirements of section 3 of SAE Recommended Practice J902, “Passenger Car Windshield Defrosting Systems,” August 1964, when tested in accordance with S4.3, except that “the critical area” specified in paragraph 3.1 of SAE Recommended Practice J902 shall be that established as Area C in accordance with Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 104, “Windshield Wiping and Washing Systems,” and “the entire windshield” specified in paragraph 3.3 of SAE Recommended Practice J902 shall be that established as Area A in accordance with §571.104.
S4.3 Demonstration procedure. The passenger car windshield defrosting and defogging system shall be tested in accordance with the portions of paragraphs 4.1 through 4.4.7 of SAE Recommended Practice J902, August 1964, or SAE Recommended Practice J902a, March 1967, applicable to that system, except that—
(a) During the first 5 minutes of the test:
(1) For a passenger car equipped with a heating system other than a heat exchanger type that uses the engine's coolant as a means to supply the heat to the heat exchanger, the warm-up procedure is that specified by the vehicle's manufacturer for cold weather starting, except that connection to a power or heat source external to the vehicle is not permitted.
(2) For all other passenger cars, the warm-up procedure may be that recommended by the vehicle's manufacturer for cold weather starting.
(b) During the last 35 minutes of the test period (or the entire test period if the 5-minute warm-up procedure specified in paragraph (a) of this section is not used),
(1) For a passenger car equipped with a heating system other than a heat exchanger type that uses the engine's coolant as a means to supply the heat to the heat exchanger, the procedure shall be that specified by the vehicle's manufacturer for cold weather starting, except that connection to a power or heat source external to the vehicle is not permitted.
(2) For all other passenger cars, either—
(i) The engine speed shall not exceed 1,500 r.p.m. in neutral gear; or
(ii) The engine speed and load shall not exceed the speed and load at 40 kilometers per hour in the manufacturer's recommended gear with road load;
(c) A room air change of 90 times per hour is not required;
(d) The windshield wipers may be used during the test if they are operated without manual assist;
(e) One or two windows may be open a total of 25 millimeters;
(f) The defroster blower may be turned on at any time; and
(g) The wind velocity is at any level from 0 to 3 kilometers per hour.
(h) The test chamber temperature and the wind velocity shall be measured, after the engine has been started, at the forwardmost point of the vehicle or a point 914 millimeters from the base of the windshield, whichever is farther forward, at a level halfway between the top and bottom of the windshield on the vehicle centerline.
[36 FR 22902, Dec. 2, 1971, as amended at 40 FR 12992, Mar. 24, 1975; 40 FR 32336, Aug. 1, 1975; 50 FR 48775, Nov. 27, 1985; 59 FR 11006, Mar. 9, 1994; 60 FR 13642, Mar. 14, 1995]
Last edited by loomdog32; May 3, 2013 at 04:36 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Cape Cod, MA
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LO3
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73
Re: Swapping to a 350
While I agree most times it's because the car has been half-assed together, and the heater serves a couple useful purposes, I see nothing wrong with removing it IF you take the time to smooth out the entire engine bay. A good job of smoothing all the metal work in the engine looks great, IMHO. If the car is only driven on perfect days or is somewhere heat isn't necessary(AZ, TX, ETC), I'm ok with removing it as part of making the engine bay look good.
I have removed all the unnecessary(to me) components from my engine bay since I went carb'd, and would have removed the heater components as well if I wasn't required to have a functioning defroster to pass inspection. I have switched to a non-AC box though, and will be smoothing everything in the engine bay when I replace the engine soon.
I have removed all the unnecessary(to me) components from my engine bay since I went carb'd, and would have removed the heater components as well if I wasn't required to have a functioning defroster to pass inspection. I have switched to a non-AC box though, and will be smoothing everything in the engine bay when I replace the engine soon.
And honestly...having heat seems like a luxury to me...ive walked most of my life in all sorts of weather, rain snow etc...just being able to drive is a luxury for me never mind actually being warm while traveling. And seriously...i drive 5 minutes up the road. By the time it actually does the work of heating up my car im already at work...
Last edited by Video; May 3, 2013 at 07:10 PM.
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Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 5
From: Pennsylvania
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Rebuilt 350 going in after paint
Transmission: WCT5, 7k & counting behind the 350
Axle/Gears: 4thgen disc rear w/ 3.73 Posi
Re: Swapping to a 350
Loomdog32 - I'm not sure how that would ever be enforced as written as no inspection station I've ever seen has the facilities necessary to create that kind of test environment. Not saying its wrong, just never seen anywhere capable of that kind of testing. I also would like to know when US measurement standards switched to the metric system?
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