Hello all! Okay, for some time now, I've been back and forth about what I wanted to swap into my camaro. I have a list and the pros/cons of each (from my understanding anyway). Please help me narrow them down.

1) Vortec 350 or Vortec headed 350
Seems that it would be the easiest, but I do not want to convert to carb. So an vortec-to-carb intake, adapter plate, and an TBI custom chip at least..I guess I could keep my AC this way, but I'm not even sure if it works lol I'm a windows down kinda guy I know Vortec is the way to go in the Gen 1. It just doesn't excite me at all. My last build, I chose 305 heads over Vortecs. Was it smart, HECK NO!!! But I felt better because I didn't choose the usual path. Won't do it again though lol

2) LT1 swap
What I really want. More fuel efficiency AND power with lots of Gen 1 features. The wiring conversion is what is kind of scaring me. I would get the computer, wiring harness, and whatever else needed. I would try to get a whole car actually. If an F or Y body Car is out of reach, a B body car will do. With a vented opti!!!

3) 454 TBI Big Block
I would absolutely LOVE it not sure of their mpg exactly. Should be a little better due to pushing around a smaller vehicle. The smaller engine bay may create cooling issues as well as I would need THE RIGHT headers to fit. I've read a lot about header fitment issues. I really don't want to pay $300+ just for headers.

4) LSx swap
The last but MOST CERTAINLY NOT LEAST!!!! I believe this would be the most modern and plentiful swap. Providing power and MPG out of the box. But I do not want to carb my car so the computer and ALL will need to be swapped. So I'm assuming I would need the dash cluster, transmission, etc..THE WHOLE CAR if possible. And I'm guessing I would STILL have to purchase swap items, such as motor mounts, headers, etc..deemed THE MOST EXPENSIVE SWAP if you will.

Okay, fire away peeps!!! I know it comes down to my wallet and what I want but you guys input will be greatly appreciated. Also, if I've forgotten any swap choices, please add.

 

As you said all depends on your budget, do you have a figure in mind? What are your power goals and intended use for the car? If you're worried about paying 300 for headers then you may have a problem buying swap headers for an lsx swap since they are more then double that, i just picked up a set myself . However, as far as pricing goes lsx swaps can be had for cheap if you go with an iron 5.3 or 6.0 lq4 or lq9 block. Also since your car is a 91, i do not believe that you would need to change anything out of your dash since you should have the electronic cluster (correct me if i'm wrong). I'm more of a modern fan so an lt1 or lsx would be my choice. Check out the lsx and ltx threads, there are plenty of guys who have done these swaps now all of the information is available.

 

Hey, thanks for replying. It's not particularly that my budget WON'T allow it..I'm just a cheapie sometimes and I don't see spending $600 on headers lol that's just me. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm about done with anything non-fi. I've seen many long block iron 5.3 on Craigslist for $2-3-400. But that's without any electricals. And I didn't realize that the dash would work with it. My initial idea was to purchase a whole 4th Gen F Body and swap EVERYTHING over. Interior and all. The whole drivetrain as well. 1994-2002 years. But apparently everyone want their weight in gold for even the worst conditioned F Body. So that's kind of hard. And I've read to steer clear of truck LS engines.

I'm still leaning on the LT side of the room. Are there big block mpfi intakes around? Seeing big block third gens on YouTube are mind blowing.

 

I actually recently had a buddy who bought a wrecked 4th gen and swapped over the drivetrain and by the time he parted out the car he came out really good. It all depends if you're willing to wait for the right wrecked car and part it out when you're done with it. As far as truck LS engines I have not heard the same i guess. If you look over at the lsx and ltx engine swap boards you will see plenty of guys doing 5.3 swaps with turbos even and having no issues. However, LT1's are great motors too. Not sure about mpfi manifolds for big blocks but my dad has had great experience with his on his 383 sbc.

 

There are many different paths to take with soo many different results. I forgot to add a stroked 383 as an option but i guess that would go under the #1 Gen 1 option. Like i said, it would have to be fuel injected so it would end up a tbi or tpi 383. What is your opinion of the tbi big block swap? I know the newer 454s aren't as much of performers as they were 30+ years ago but they do have potential.

 

I forgot to answer your question earlier. My budget is not set, nor is is high. I have a few bones left over after bills each month to play around with. I plan to take my time with this project. Last time I built an engine, I got ahead of myself and was not happy with the overall results. But the money was spent. $2k toilet flush lol but you live and learn.

In terms of power goal, I'd like to see maybe 3-350 to the wheels. I plan on porting heads, swapping cam, and installing headers. All this, as well as the intake plans all depend on the swap choice I go with. This will be in a partial to mostly daily driver.

 

If you are looking for ultimate power why would you stay TBI ?

Vortec heads are effectively cast iron versions of the LT1 head
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...tec_head_test/

so you can have LT1 benefits with the ease of the GEN I package

If you were really after power you would run the Vortec version of the HSR

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wnd-7542

 

You will not get an answer unless you determine budget. BBC swap done correctly will rape your wallet, and LS parts aren't for budget-minded drivers unless you're going with a 5.3 or high miles LS1.

 

I ment staying with TBI as my plan Z. Like, refusal to convert to carb. I'll keep the TBI before I go carb. And that HSR intake is BEAST!!! Never seen that for Vortec. It has the look I like. The front mounted throttle body that TPI/LT1/LS intakes possess. And it would provide mpfi just as I wanted! Not bad on the price considering...But as far as being computer controlled? Would I use a TPI computer?

So would it be cheaper to do a Vortec 350 with this HSR intake? Would it have roughly the same HP/MPG as an LT1?

 

Lets give a base budget of maybe $1200. Growing with passing paychecks as well. I may have to rule out the LS swap. I read that there were fitment issues as far as the oil pan. Maybe I was reading into too much because I hadn't seen that before now.

 

HSR uses all TPI parts ;TB , injectors , computer and wiring but you need a set of fuel rails because the stock TPI rails don't fit
See
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...tive-fuel.html

Complete 2nd hand HSR intakes often in the For sale dept around $500+

Depends on the build
LT1 300Hp (Vette ) from factory
Vortec 250 -330Hp ( GMPP # 19210007 crate engine)

Depends on how heavy you are on the throttle

 

Might be saving up a while then
As they say " speed costs , how fast do you want to go " 350 RWHP = 400+ HP at engine ,
a reasonably serious build you are not going to get by throwing a HSR and a set of Vortec heads on some junkyard 350

 

I was debating and if I could get an wrecked LT fbody for maybe $1500 or less, I would turn out great. I could also use the interior and rear end. But yeah, speed really does cost. My last build burned up $1500 on parts alone pretty fast.

 

Yeah, I read up A LOT about the HSR. It would kind of be like a TBI to TPI swap. But it said that the stealth ram was kind of bland at low end. But would wind up from 2500 to about 6500-7000 rpm. I don't plan on ever seeing those numbers. Need something a little more usable if I'm spending that kind of money. 5500 is about my limit. I know that higher RPMs call for better internals. Not building THAT kind of engine.

 

Ported Vortec heads, HSR intake, a nice cam, and headers wouldn't get me over 300rwhp?

 

Porting vortec heads is not a very good idea. They are best left alone. You're going to need more than $1200 to reach your goals. 5500 RPMs really kills your potential to make power.

 

I said $1200 as a base, that grows with each passing paycheck. And I hear bad things about spinning that high on stock bottom ends. Who would have thought that getting 300-350rwhp would be so difficult. I've read about people slapping bigger (not huge) cams in stock LT1s and getting over 300 easy. That Vortec setup I mentioned earlier should be over 300 and would cost $1200 or less.

 

Power will break things on stock bottom ends, but it's not as often as people claim.. It really depends on the circumstances in many situations. I've seen plenty of stock bottom ends handle 7000 RPMs all day long. Ive also seen them break apart. Stock parts is a gamble. I understood your comment as a base. The problem is - nothing ever works the way you want it to. I'm one of the lucky ones on this forum making serious power for lower cost, and I still have a lot of coin into my setup.. I will be surprised if I hit 380 RWHP.The 'nickel and diming' stuff adds up very quickly. 300 and 350 rwhp are massively different goals, both of which require careful planning and investing money properly.

The people making big power are spinning their motors up to a healthy RPM with obvious modifications to support such RPMs. The only other way around that is more displacement or forced induction. Most of the numbers you see on the forums are fudged or simply Internet warriors seeking attention. There's not as many of us making decent power as you'de think.

 

Which is why people change gears and stall to suit a new combo.
You think a LT1 with even shorter intake runners is going to be any different ?


So stick with a stock TPI on Vortec ( use the SDPC Vortec TPI base ) heads , TPI works from off idle, is dead at 5 K

 

Yes, nickel and diming can run your budget very fast. Especially when you have to replace something that you didn't even know was bad. I went threw that with my last build.

Soooo, RPMs aren't necessarily bad...it's just that, they CAN take a tole on your bottom end. I that peak HP is usually higher in the RPM than peak torque. From reading and horror stories, I just always figured I'd shy away from anything over 5k. That's why the big block was an option. Big power at lower RPMs. So, 7k is not a big deal on a stock bottom 350? If it matters, this engine I run will taste a bit of NOS. I always wanted to try it. No more than maybe a 75 shot. I know that bigger shots can cause bigger problems if not built for it.

And displacement was also a thought. Was looking for, and almost bought a sbc 400 for a nice price. Got sold before I could call the guy back. There is a clean sbc 400 bare block not far from me for $50. But like I said, I'd be making it efi. Wouldn't know what to do as far as computer or tuning. Use a 454 TBI stuff?

 

So the RPMs are what makes LT1s so beastly? I've read that they pull away from non-stock TPIs pretty quick and easy, especially over about 40ish mph.

 

300-350 at the wheels is pretty easy with any of the above options, not sure about the budget but you have said that you're willing to wait and save. Stealth ram, vortec heads, mild cam (224 ish @.050 lift) will get you there with a sbc, lt1 with similar sized cam will get you over 300 rwhp, and a stock ls1 will often times put out 300+ bone stock through a 6 speed. a cheap 5.3 with again a similar sized cam and headers should put out an easy 350-375 rwhp. Also, the oil pan issue clearance you mentioned is true with lsx swaps, but you can either cut and weld a small notch in the stock k-member like many other members have done, really not a huge thing, or buy an aftermarket k-member. On a small budget like yours though chances are you would cut the stock one, which many members have made work just fine.

 

Occasional 7k is not an issue as long as you have everything checked out and an awesome balance job. You're still playing with fire though. Good balance is absolutely critical on higher RPMs. I don't have experience with nitrous, so I can't guide you in that regard. Don't bother with a 400 sbc unless its an SHP or you've got some type of proof proving the block is good. Never, ever assume anything with engines and you'll be A+.

If you want a sure fire reach to good power, you'll want to use RPMs to your advantage with a good cam profile.

 

Okay guys, sorry it took so long to reply. Just a couple of hours ago, I purchased a 1994 Camaro Z28 for $600!!!!!!! Has 145k on it. Was in a wreck and totaled. Guy's son was fooling around and showing off. Burning out and such. Ended up power sliding (driver side door) into a telephone pole, breaking the telephone pole in half!!!!!!! Son lived, but was pretty bad off. Drive-Train is in PERFECT condition. Interior is a 6/10. Exterior isn't too bad, but the driver side is HORRIBLE!!! So my decision has been made. I shall swap over the drivetrain, interior, and anything else that will swap. Then, junking the car with my current 3rd gen drivetrain to make some money back. WOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sounds like a plan! I would seriously think about leaving your interior 3rd gen, lets face it the 4th gen interior is extremely dated at this point. Besides, the old school stock interior you have just gets cooler as the years go by, whereas a swapped 4th just looks goofy 10 years down the road...

 

I see what your saying, and never thought of it like that. But my 3rd gen interior is almost SHOT. The dash pad is in like 30 pieces, the seats are beyond repair (driver has cushion and metal bare), the console needs help. Plus, I thought a dash swap would be cool...