89transam1983

89transam1983

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

A stock LS1 will blow away ANYTHING you can put under TPI. A H/C/I/E LS1, ... hahahaha. And get better gas mileage, be more reliable overall, weigh less, ...

I don't see where there's even a shred of doubt as to the best choice.

You can probably pick up a newer motor than a LS1 for about the same price, that will perform much better than the original. For that matter, a 6.0 pullout from a truck might be worth consideration. I'd recommend the LQ9 out of about a 05 or 06 Escalade or Denali. Get the whole enchilada; transmission, wiring, fans, as MUCH as you possibly can. Maybe even, just buy a wrecked truck whole.

I'd leave it automatic if it was me. A GOOD torque converter will revolutionize it, along with a shift kit and a Vette or Superior servo.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Different strokes for different folks I guess Sofa. Haven't had a stock LS1 anywhere close to either of my 383cid SuperRam stick shift combinations, but I expect you were just kidding.

The Gen 3 small blocks really are fantastic. But there are many things to consider, and lots of hidden costs to installing an LS engine that everyone likes to gloss over. Like headers, accessory drives, intake manifolds, fuel system, AC and cruise control functionality etc.

I say it depends on how much power you want to make. If you want to make 450hp or less, I say stick with a small block and use a SuperRam or a StealthRam intake. If you want more power than that, go LS. If you want to go turbo or supercharger, go LS. If you want a boring street car or a drag car go with an automatic trans. If you want something fun and engaging, go with a manual trans.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I think this really sums it up. ...it's never really apples to apples. There's always one that might do something better, but costs more. ...or maybe you have knowledge on one, but not the other. Or maybe power doesn't matter and you like the nostalgia over fuel economy. It's so subjective. Generally speaking, there's really no denying that overall the LS provides a superior platform. But to say it's best for YOU? -the O.P.? Only you can make that decision.

Fwiw, I'm running a SB383 with stupidly modded TPI, controlled by Holley EFI, backed by a TKO 5 speed. I had my reasons and don't regret it for a second. Still...not sure I'd recommend NOT going LS to anyone considering it.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

If you are starting from scratch, meaning no engine or transmission and are wanting to make 350-400 hp to the wheels than an LS engine is the way to go. An LS engine should be on par with a streetable 383 price wise and power wise. If you already have a set of good heads or a good intake system than a 383 is the way to go cost wise. The amount you would pay for a machined 383 block, decent aluminum heads and intake will be about equal to what you would pay for all of the (now readily available off-the-shelf) LS conversion parts. If you chose the right LS engine with the better heads and intake you could get away with one of the super common cam swaps and a mail order pcm reprogram to get your 350-400hp. The other HUGE benefit of truck LS engines is that if you break it you can go to a junk yard and pull another short/long block, you can't do that with a 383.

As far as my 383 goes, I have at least $2000 in my short block, another $1000 in the heads and another $1000 in the intake and fuel system. I have seen the larger junkyards have sales of $100 for complete engines and I routinely come across complete 6.0L Escalade engines for sale on craigslist for $1000 or less depending on what comes with.

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

I have built many stroker motors and like anything it has to be done RIGHT with that there is cost! You can buy a cheap cast crank like eagle sells but 95% of us will BREAK that crank so either you spend 400-600 more for a real crank or you spend 2000 on a new shortblock and that is if you do NOT hurt tbe heads when that crank lets go and flings pistons and rods around.....
Grab a running LS style motor preferable a 5.3, 5.7, 6.0 etc... and add some new valvesprings, Ls2 timing chain and a small 224 cam and the power output will be comparable or MORE to a basic built 383 ANY DAY..
The head design of the LS is superior to and 23° head available off the shelf so right there you know you will be spending a lot of $$ on a good port job to still fall short.
Distributor ignition systems are a day of the past also but that is a different story..
Please understand me, I will never bash tbe TPI I watched them from the beginning in '85 worked on them in depth around '88 had a blast punking many mustangs the memories are awesome but these days modern technology has lit the stage for more power and better fuel economy. I will always respect the guy that decides to keep a TPI, T ram, Super ram style set up since that is and will always be a sexy look under any hood!
Money well spent is what you used to create your dream machine....

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

LS swaps are super expensive. The engines are the least of the expense when you decide to go that route.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I've seen some pretty dang inexpensive LS swaps on this site. The really cheap swaps usually aren't rip roaring power houses but they've got at least 300 Hp.

A decent 383 will need the same upgrades to driveline, exhaust, brakes, etc...
Fun costs money either way you cut it. People that don't think so aren't having enough fun.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

..and the wiring is a hacked mess, and the swap is integrated poorly or not at all. Things like AC, cruise control etc never get re-enabled on the budget stuff. The devil is in the details, and that's where the expense is, and that's what tips the scales for some people. My GTA is an example. Nice car, everything worked, so I spent $3500 building a stroker myself and dropped it in. Cam swap a LQ9, and swap it in while keeping all the creature comforts and you'll spend WAY more than $3500.

Again, I'm not trying to throw cold water on LS swaps, I'm planning an LQ4 swap myself. But I think people need to go in with eyes wide open to the cost of the details.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

That's a choice, not a money problem.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

old popular and repetitive question ill sum it up
you can do a good low budget ls swap your self majority of the money will be wiring if you don't do yourself and the exhaust if you don't do your self then engine and trans dependent on what you get
I seen hack jobs on tpi swaps and lt1 and ls1 so that's a subjective answer and you can gloss over a lot no matter what engine you use

both can make power both can be boosted or stroked etc

the real question is do you want to deal with all the little things that come up with sbc and hassle of adding performance parts or you want something that's more easy and friendlier with not having to worry about the little gremlins
that's the main difference ive had both and the little issues gets annoying and something always tend to pop up and with the LS never really had issues and building engine so easy

its like using a flip phone vs a smartphone

sadly there are a lot of bad info on forum and a lot of opinions

personally after driving swap car I would do it again purely for performance and reliability ...now if I just wanted to keep it stock then I would swap engine

the cost effective swaps will be f body pull outs t56 carries a price hike over autos but nothing to crazy and all you need is mounts wiring and exhaust if you do a lot by yourself
that's the cost savings

a lot of the expensive swaps they usually send car out to get that completed minus the actual swap and with labor hours costing that adds up a lot so I agree that people leave out the little things that add up but if your a true DIY then I really can be done

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Ehhhhh, I dunno. You can cheap out and cobble together a 383 too, but it's generally accepted that the OP would probably build the 383 the RIGHT way, until he mentions otherwise. Same with the LS swap. Of course "do it right" is subjective, and I'm not here to argue THAT definition.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

poor quality work is a choice, integrating AC, Cruise, traction control, etc costs money, and it's rarely seen on budget swaps in my area.

What are all the little things that come up with a SBC? I've put 200k miles on thirdgens since 1997, only limp home issues I've had were an alternator, a MAP sensor and a distributor jumped a tooth due to excessive wear. Two of those issues would have happened to an LS car too, so you be the judge... If someone does a SBC to LS swap to get better reliability, I think they're barking up the wrong tree. The LS is better at responding to modifications and better power in stock form, that's it's key advantage IMO. I'll even debate you that mileage can be equal between LS and SBC. So if you're looking for easy power or lighter weight, LS is the way to go. Otherwise, arguments can be made for either engine family and there will be no final word on this debate.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You know, I was about to explain how easy it is but I think it's better to ask you to explain how to hook up AC and cruise control so people can see you don't know what you're talking about.

Who the hell does traction control? And what's all the etc..? You're just talking out the side of your mouth with no LS swap experience.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Why are we getting all adversarial here? I was agreeing with you. Explain how easy and cheap it is to integrate an LS swap with all the features a thirdgen had from the factory. I'm NOT the expert on LS swaps. I simply said integrating extra stuff costs money, and that I don't usually see it done, I didn't say it was hard or impossible.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

sure on a well maintained but how many are still owning there original bought thirdgen you are the few that has owned the same thirdgen for years so yea of course you might have fewer issues

but you drove less than 10k miles a year so your car is garage most of the time or park on the street so hence fewer issues so relax cowboy not barking up any tree garage queen lol ive put 20k + miles atleast in 1 year on sbc and ls

the little things in regards of building a sbc vs lsx when building a engine and swapping it in there are little things on both sides have you ever built a engine ? sure can buy a crate motor for either but I was talking about building and upgrading .. assuming wont get you far my friend so pump your brakes there ..

reliability and performance will always be a pro in ls swap , sbc has it pros as well either is a good engine but coming from someone that puts more than 10k miles on a daily drive lsx is far more convenient
sbc aren't for the guys that want the easy casual diy car guy , I love both engines and anything chevy my point is from a daily driven and performance gain view

lmao always one on thirdgen to get their panties in a bunch about lsx engine lmao grab a snicker bruh

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I agree

ls swap is more easy now with all the info out there , I think the issue is the wiring and the exhaust that people consider expensive and or difficult and where you can save the most if you do yourself
engine cost is shouldn't be a factor because I seen junkyard engines for couple hundred and seen f body pullouts from 1500 to around 3k range

one thing I have notice is that a lot of people want to spend the least amount and have the most performance and best reliability and cant have all three in the same sentence unless people are donating good parts to ya lol

like I think its crazy when people say its so expensive to the point its impossible to do but after doing it myself I know that its possible to do inexpensively

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

The really nice LS swaps I've seen some were by really good mechanics that didn't cheap out on parts. Seen some impressive swaps here. Id love to have a super nice LS swap like Linson done here on the board.But in reality to the average Joe like me an LS swap is beyond my ability or let's say patience. I've saw some real tacky swaps out there. For an average guy staying with a gen1 sbc is easier and most likely will provide more than ample power and reliability.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i swapped out my supercharged tpi 305 with 380/420 rear wheel power for an lq9 6.0 and a hot cam with long tube headers. i dont REGRET one bit of it and wish i had done it sooner. the car is a blast to drive hard or cruise. i'm into my swap for around 4k and that doesn't include the ~700.00 i need for the a/c system to go back in.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Linson is an average guy. He bought a complete engine and he bought off the shelf LS conversion parts and he has helped along by a dozen helpful members. I thought he also had a relative or friend do some welding or something for him he couldn't. His entire thread is a demonstration of what a normal car guy can do. In the same respect my build thread concept is very similar.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Not sure how I came off as the idiot here, thought I was in agreement with everyone for the most part. I've built 8 engines and I've lost count of how many manual transmissions I've built. I've been tuning OBDI TPI and TBI setups since 2006. I have 2 cars with 383s running the stock wire harness and stock computer. One has been road raced and autocrossed since 2005, got 5th out of 80 cars at the motor state challenge in 2010. The other is a daily driver that gets 28mpg and ran 13.40@108 in Bristol TN on a super hot nasty day. If all that makes me an idiot and unqualified to have an opinion then so be it I guess.

I don't think building a SBC long block is any harder or easier than building an LS long block. If I'm that wrong on this, then tell me what I'm missing, I'll gladly listen. As we speak I'm pulling an LQ4 out of a van and planning to put it in my 91 Z28.

My only point in all this was simply to point out that many LS swap advocates say how cheap and easy a swap is. I'm only pointing out that its not as cheap if you factor in all the little details and/or retain all the original car's functionality. That's it, that's my only point. I didn't name call anyone, I didn't say LS swaps are stupid or not worth it. I'm just encouraging people to understand the total cost involved.

The traction control comment was because I've seen stuff like that done. Heck, BIG MODS on here has ABS on his LS swapped 87 IROC...

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I agree , more you do yourself more you save but total cost does adds up if I was to calculate everything I spent including engine and trans auto minus all the upgrades I did I was
def under 4k estimated for entire swap I'm prob over estimating by couple hundred but normal people can do the swap in the beginning it was very hard to do swap cheap

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I am not bashing you, but I think you're wrong on that point. As someone who did a swap I was able to retain all the "functionality" of what the car came with and it didn't really cost me all that much "extra" money. Granted I started with a V6 car, so technically yes it did, but if someone already has a TPI/TBI car I could have/would have spent less money in the end if I had just built a driver car and not gone to my "standards". I spent money on things like stainless, ceramic coated my manifolds, etc, but I did all that on my own too. I have working TPI AC in my car, I have stock TPI routed exhaust, all my gauges work, the reverse lockout on my T56 works, reverse lights on the trans works, i used all the factory 3rd gen fuses for the engine harness. None of that really cost me all that much money to retain, a few dollar here and there. I am even panning on adding cruise to my swap, my car didn't have it from the factory, and it isn't going to cost a whole lot of money. I got the cruise unit from the JY for like $5-10 with the connector, I got the cruise stalk for about the same, adding the necessary wiring and getting it to work won't cost but a few dollars more overall.

If I were to do an even more "bare bones" swap I have found even more ways to save money and I could do the swap, without all the stainless and painting, and retain everything for a lot less money.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

One thing I learned about the thirdgen community is that few will invest money no matter how with in reach different mods might be I've see more and more good builds as lately which opens reasons or bashing and or excuse why its not worth it or this or that which I think is funny cause I'm not rich and just a middle class active duty military guy who did the swap so I just laugh when people make it seem its unattainable or so expensive another thing I learned is that many want to pay someone and do a lot on there own the major stuff like build rebuild wiring exhaust etc

end of day and ideal world I would want both sbc and lsx thirdgen lol but lsx power is addicting and more fun to work on and would drive more to be honest and sbc would be the fun little cruiser beach hot rod love both engines for different reasons and needs

SteelDirigible

iTrader: (2)

I would not say it's beyond the ability (but maybe patience) of anyone here. I knew little to nothing about ls engines when I started looking at doing it. I just decided to buy an engine and hop right into it. Yeah there's a ton of little things that add up, but you don't really have to do any fabrication, all the parts are readily available. The wiring is probably the trickiest difference from the sbc, and it's really not too bad. I'll probably be out $5k all said and done including the car and all new front suspension. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it "tacky" to start as long as you have good bones, because you can always go back and fix all the smaller issues as you get to them. The tacky swaps like mine are good experience, I'm already assuming I'll be pulling the engine for a full rebuild/redo not too long after my swap is finished.

And I'm just doing it in my garage in my basement. Jack stands, engine lift are good enough to get it done. I think it just starts to seem easier once you start into it and do things one step at a time.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

yea I agree when I rebuilt my first transmission I was like what the hell I'm doing lol and jump in and at end it was like it wasn't that bad after all and built few more after the fact with ease but wiring for me was the trickiest but schematics saved me sense I'm color blind lmao