five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've looked over a bunch of posts, seems to be split as to which way to go.

"Pros":
- Since I'm starting with a carb'd car, the tank would have the pump and everything so all I'd have to do is hook the output line to the existing fuel line. No regulator or external pump mounting required.
- I can buy and get a 4th gen tank shipped to me for less than the pump and reg would cost.
- I read through the evap posts, mostly got confused there. Sounds like I could eliminate the engine compartment canister and use the existing evap line from the engine back to the tank. Where the evap canister is now would be a good place to route the air filter.
- 4th gen tank is lighter than 3rd gen tank.

"Cons":
- I'd have to rig up an in-line filter.
- The wiring would have to be run from the PCM back to the tank since I don't have anything like it now.
- I'd be putting something in the car that it wasn't designed for (but, hey, what am I doing with the LS1/T56?). I'm not dealing with a donor car, so everything I get has to be pieced together. I haven't had time to look through local yards, so I'm mostly relying on what I find for sale on line.

I'd appreciate your input.

Camaro0605

iTrader: (3)

From my experience.
-The 4th gen tank really isn't all that much lighter then the 3rd gen tank.

-You can use the evap canister on the tank. Then use the stock return line(do carb cars have a return line?) as the vent from the tank to the EVAP Solenoid on the passenger side of the engine.

-For the fuel filter you can use the 3rd gen filter at the stock position. Even though your car is a carb'd, couldn't you go to the junk yard and get a fuel filter bracket to bolt up.

- You need a return line that goes back to the tank. Others and myself have put a T block right after the fuel filter. Then run a line from the T back to the tank.

-Filler neck is a rubber hose that disconnects from the tank. Makes dropping the tank out of the car a little easier. To get the fuel tank straps out you still need to drop the rear pretty low(and maybe the exaust???). I was able to put the tank in the car with the shocks and springs still in place. But i did have to bend the straps a little. But you don't have to battle the filler neck once you get the straps out of the way.

- Your fuel gauge won't work with the LS's sending unit. To fix this you need to can get a sending unit from a 97 grand prix non-supercharged car built before vin 238198(Thanks to Diabloformula for this information). I got lucky here. I found a complete new sending unit for this car on ebay and picked it up for $30 shipped. I tested the sender and it was indeed 0-90 ohms. I then turned around and sold the fuel pump and bucket on a grand prix forum for $50. Best mod i've done to my car so far.

-Your fuel lines won't connect to the tank. You need an adapter like this one. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku



Thats all i got.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, carb'd cars do have the return line. They have supply, return, and vent (to the vapor canister). They route from the driver's side, the supply and return run up to the top of the transmission tunnel, over to the passenger side frame rail, and up to the front corner of the engine. The evap vent line continues up the driver's side rail to the canister behind the left headlights. I assumed I'd flip the fuel rail on the engine so the supply fitting is on the passenger side (looked symmetrical, haven't tried it yet, heard someone else did it).

I was under the impression LS1 doesn't use a return line. The pump has the by-pass built into it. Perhaps my misunderstanding.

Evap solenoid on the engine? I've seen an evap line on the driver's side (right next to the supply line), guess I'll have to go look at it a little closer.

The supply line on carb'd cars is solid from the tank to the engine. I'd need more than a 3rd gen bracket, I'd need the fittings. I have seen EFI filter repair kits (for use when people twist the line when attempting to remove the filter), I'm assuming that would be adequate to fab the filter into the line.

The car will be up on jack stands with both the diff and exhaust removed, so I was planning on doing any fuel mods back there at that time - whether I go external in-line with reg, or 4th gen LS1 tank.

I'll probably be doing other gage changes. 85 MPH mechanical speedo, 60 psi oil pressure gage, for instance.

If it matters, the LS1 is out of a 2000 Camaro SS, and the tank I'm looking at right now is from a 2001 SS.

Camaro0605

iTrader: (3)

There is a return line, its just not at engine. The 97 corvettes had the regulator at the fuel rail. Many people that use the 3rd gen tank on the ls1's try to use that fuel rail so they can use the 3rd gen feed and return line.

I have an engine from an 02 vette so it might be different. But the solenoid was located on the passenger side. It has a line going into the side of either the throttle body or intake. Not sure.

I think this is regarding hooking the lines up to the tank. If it is and your using 3rd gen lines you won't be able to hook the 3rd gen lines directly to the tank or fuel rail without using an adapter or coming up with something else. The 4th gen fittings are the quick connect fittings while the 3rd gen are the flare type fittings(i'm not sure of the exact name). I used that adapter from summit to connect a braded line to the fuel rail. I assume you could use that to connect the fuel lines to the fuel tank somehow with the correct adapters. My dad used the plastic quick connects from the tank and stuck a fitting that matches the 3rd gen fittings on the other end of the plastic piece. It looks like it will work but until we put power to the pump and test for leaks, i won't know..

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Okay, took a look at the engine, yup, there's an evap solenoid sitting there on the driver's side. The hose to it is wrapped together with the fuel supply line with heat shield. If I switched the fuel rail around, I'd have to leave the solenoid on the driver's side, meaning I'd have to split up the lines.

I understand the lines won't directly connect, that adaptation is required.

Camaro0605

iTrader: (3)

Ah, thats right the drivers side not he passenger. My fault. I havn't seen my car in like 3 weeks so i'm a little forgetful.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Back to the return (so to speak): Again, I was under the impression that no return from the engine is required after '99. Is this being done as an "improvement"?

For the Russel fittings, I don't see 3/8 male. You linked 3/8 female. The fittings on the engine hoses are female, so I need male. The evap is a smaller than the fuel supply. I'm not familiar with these types of fittings, so I don't know what sizes are needed.

Call me weird, but I'd like this to look like it's meant to be in there, not like it's been hot rodded in there.

Camaro0605

iTrader: (3)

This thread should answer most of your questions about the gas tank and the return.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...s1#post3168999

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The pro/con part is pretty much settled, as the 2001 SS tank is on it's way to my door for $138 shipped & insured. Can't beat that buying a new pump and reg, assuming those parts are okay in this tank as the seller assures me they are.

The thread you linked was one that I read through using the same search that you did. It answered a lot of questions, but opened up more which is why I started this one.

If I'm understanding correctly, James did the return the way he did because he didn't have the lines on the tank, which I will. If that's all I'm misunderstanding, then I think I'm there.

The more I think about it, I'm going to reroute the stock lines up the driver's side and connect from there. Shorter lines, less hassle modifying the fuel rail, less heat exposure, etc. I may have to splice if the lines won't cooperate being rebent, but that's no biggie. Or, just run all new aluminum line (I like working with that stuff).

Thanks again. If there is more insight I'm needing, I'd appreciate it.

Camaro0605

iTrader: (3)

I don't understand when you say "James did the return the way he did because he didn't have the lines on the tank, which I will"?

If i was in your situation I would try to get a fuel filter bracket and clamps from a FI car. Then just make my own lines going up the drivers side of the car like the FI cars. Although if i had to do it again i'd probably eat the cost and go with braded lines everywhere. Also the tank will point the lines towards the drivers side of the car. So i assume you'd need to make some custom lines to get them over to the passenger side of the car anyways.

Is your rear brake line on the drivers or passenger side of the car? With the FI cars the brake line and 3 fuel lines(feed, return, vent) all take the same path back. As you can probably see in pictures from that other thread.

cam-

Glad you bought the tank its the better way to go IMO. As for return there is a return tee in the stock system and I plumbed mine it like that but for some reason the regulator in my LS1 tank had been removed ( I had no idea ) and this caused me some fits initially until I put a vette filter in place and all was well.

I used the stock carb pressure line connected to the stock LS1 plastic line via a nipple and a Swaglok compression fitting ( best quality available be careful with cheapo compression fittings they are dangerous )

http://www.swagelok.com/search/produ...art=2507-600-6

Same for return line right there where stock filter goes although I did not mount my filter in the exact stock position I mounted it to fit more inline with the car.

Then at the engine side I managed to score a few sets of brand new GM fuel lines from a olds front driver with filters, brackets, flex couplers and all so I used a section of that to route up to my fuel rail. I have another filter bracket if you want one let me know. uber cheap

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

He said the lines were cut on the tank he got, so he fabricated his own.

They start on the driver's side, and supply & return go over to the passenger side at the tranny tunnel. I'll probably start from scratch for the supply line. If I'm understanding correctly, the return doesn't need to go all the way to the engine.

That's all the same.

cam-

This is correct. The feed line dead heads at the rail. THe return is plumbed in at the rear under the rear seat area. On a stock fourth gen tank ther eis supposed to be a regulator there to control the return and hold the 61psi pressure but in my case it was absent so it simply did a loop and left me no pressure at the rail. Odd as it was I put a 2001 Corvette fuel filter in place of the tee I had at the back. It has the regulator built in and this fixed me up.

So out of the tank pressure to a tee 3/8" line then a return to the tank 5/16" line and out of the tee to your rail a 3/8" line and if your stock regulator is in the tank your golden.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Is it me, or is it the LSx parts market?

3 of the 4 things I've gotten so far have either been broken or not what they said. The tank arrived today, the outlets of the pump were broken off and put in the packing in the bottom of the box. I know it wasn't shipping damage, because the lines for the broken pump were cut off, and the lines for the tank are still there intact. There are also two harnesses there, one damaged one with the pump, one cut off and stuck under the lines. The retaining ring is only partially engaged. There is no shipping damage on the box (it was actually wrapped in bubble wrap - something would have to penetrate the box exactly at that spot to do this damage).

At least the guy who sold me the engine/trans made right on the broken pulley. The tank seller said send pictures and he'd file a claim with the shipping company - I sent him the pics, but made it clear if DHL asked me, I'd say it wasn't shipping damage.

Camaro0605

iTrader: (3)

Most yards will just cut the plastic lines off the tank. I'm assuming this is what they did. I think they cut them to easily remove the sending unit from the tank. When i got my tank all of the plastic lines were cut. We made the out and return lines so that was fine, but i had to buy the middle vent line from a gm dealership.

As for the wiring, theres two connectors. The small square plug is for the pump and gauge(this is the oneyou need). While the other is for the pressure sensor and EVAP selonoid thats on the tank. I got rid of this connector completely.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, he just emailed back and said he'd send a new pump. Hopefully it ends there.

I don't mind the lines being cut. That they sent something that was already damaged (and not what was in the photo in the listing) is what got my ire up.

The cut harness is fine. I'll have to splice anyway, this just means one step is already done.

cam-

Geebus dude.... Your getting the shaft indeed. I had stellar luck with my parts especially off LS1tech all was good. Only issue I had was the guy i bought my cam off also sold me valve springs. Turned out they were not what he said they were but he refunded me the difference no problem at all although I was worried until I received the funds. Guess I got lucky.

Mind you dont worry about the wiring thats cake. You only need a few wires going into the tank even though I used a chassis harness out of an LS1 car I ended up cutting almost all of it out anyways. Had I known then what I know now I would have left the stock third gen wiring and spliced that in.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Must be me, then.

My '82 doesn't have pump wiring, so I'll run new copper for that.

I guess now I'll have a level sender to practice modifying to be compatible with the 3rd gen gage. Unless he wants the busted one back.

bygblok

iTrader: (3)

I'm going with a carbed LS motor and here's how I did mine. Fuel cell fitting out the bottom center of the stock tank(all internals removed other than the sending unit) I used the stock tank vent with a filter on the end. Here's my plumbing and where I mounted the pump and filter. All hard lines forward from the filter(#8 aluminum line)

bygblok

iTrader: (3)

another pic, sorry about the quality. Cell phones suck!!
it was a bit of a bitch to take the baffling out of the tank but I ended up with a nice flat area for the fitting at the lowest, center rear of the tank. The pump loves the location and gravity feeds great.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've been out of town most of the week, but the replacement arrived. Looks to be in good shape.

Not sure how this happened, the seller didn't offer an explanation. But, being a yard, I assume somebody who works for him did something he didn't know about. I'll probably never know. At least I'm back in business again.

My son's Lumina is out of the garage and the Berlinetta is in. The insurance has been swapped between them, so no excuse now but to get the process started. Well, do have to clean up the garage a little, and I'll be out of town again next week. But, other than that, no excuse.