Hi from Rich in upstate NY this is my first post and i am looking for some advice. I have a 1989 Firebird that my Father had purchased brand new and rarely used it. The car has just over 14k miles on it and unfortunately it has a 2.8 v6 and auto transmission. I was looking at the 3800 v6 option but this looks very complicated. I have been looking at the GM Crate SP350 because I would be happy on the 300+ HP range.

My other thought is just put some fresh paint on it and keep it that way it is, any thought would be appreciated

 

Couple questions:

1. Is it really the car you dreamed of having and dumping money into?
2. Is it a pristine time capsule in good working order that you can drive and enjoy right now?

Usually engine swaps are prompted by some kind of problem and then people become willing to tear apart (and sometimes destroy) their cars. I have a built 1989 base model Firebird too. It's badass but it's anything but reliable now. And it was, and still continues to be, expensive. And my wife will not ride in it any more so nobody enjoys it except me.

 

Exactly what Kwk Trp said.
Engine swaps are expensive, and i fail to understand the need for 500 HP all of a sudden. Look on LS1 Tech and you can see all that is involved.
if the car is in great shape, enjoy it as it is. If you cant live with it change it or sell it and get what you love.

BTW...Qwk Trip....my wife hates my 91 TA vert, but loves my 94 TA vert.

 

This kind of depends on the cars condition and how you're going to use the car? Would this just be a every once and a while cruiser or do you have aspirations to get this car on a road course? Personally if it were my all or mostly original low mileage car that is somewhat mechanically sound I'd probably keep it mostly original. Post some pictures?

 

Drive it and enjoy it if its running correct and everything works.. If its not enough for you sell it and buy one with a V8

 

Because 500 is more fun than 400 is more fun than 300 is more fun than 200 is more fun than 100.
What's there to explain? LOL!

 

What's your budget, and who's going to do the work?




It's Deja Vu all over again in this forum...............

 

What you want | What your DIY skill level is | how much money you want to put in.

I wanted a puzzle car ie take apart, put back together better, repeat | I have mechanical skills (I can rebuild the engine and a 700R4) | I don't care how much I spend as long as I can still pay the mortgage (well maybe late)

 

Thanks to everyone for your advice!!!
the car is in perfect condition other than the paint on the hood and roof that lost the clear l will be using the car mostly for just short trip’s going out and maybe some cruises but no racing. The GM crate engine that I was looking at is around 330 Hp. I was reading about the emissions and I am not sure if this could even made to run legal in NY I was actually off on the mileage it’s just over 12k lol

 

Okay, now I know what we're dealing with.

I guess first things first, it's not worth much because of the paint. It might as well have 150K miles, doesn't matter any more. We're not going to lower its value playing with it.

With that said.... that is the PERFECT candidate for a hot rod build! It's super nice where it matters and won't give you any problems with broken crap, rusted crap, worn out crap, doesn't even need anything done really. What I mean is you can dive into the modifications right away and not have to fix a crappy car like so many people do. Money sunk will be money lost though. It's hard to raise the value of a base model unless it turns out remarkably good.

I was going to ask.... Can you even do that in New York?

 

I am going to see if i would be able to have it inspected before I do anything. I unfortunately am thinking that I will not able to do this
thanks for your advice

 

I live in upstate NY and you don’t really have to worry about emissions, go ahead and swap to the 350 if you want. As mentioned your car is a perfect candidate for it considering it’s condition.

The car is OBD1 so they will not even put it on the computer so no worries about a sniffer test or any of that non sense. My car has EGR and SMOG deleted via tune and hardware removal and I’ve never had a problem but I upgraded the cat with a Magnaflow when I did the new exhaust as new converters are much better than the old junk.

Now by law if you remove the catalytic converter and all emissions equipment you could get dinged but most guys who work in shops have no idea what these cars came with new for emissions and if they fail you go to another shop. I would keep or get a new performance catalytic converter just to be safe on that front.

Seeing your car i would maybe try to get the hood and roof etc re-sprayed, will look better than it is as the rest of the car looks good IMO and would be cheaper than a full re-spray. I had my hood and spoiler done for about a grand a few years back and it really improved the look.

 

thanks as I much that makes me feel much better! So would you get rid of everything and just install a new converter

 

If that was my car I’d do the crate motor, the appropriate suspension mods/refresh( subframe connectors, springs to accommodate the V8 etc.) full exhaust from at least manifolds back (aftermarket cat back exhaust of your choice with a performance catalytic converter), and maybe a rear gear swap depending on what it has for gears. Those mods would make that a nice street machine but that’s just my opinion, hopefully more knowledgeable members chime in.

I would check some build threads of guys who have done similar builds as well to see what they did, issues encountered etc. I would be sure to have the funds lined up as doing an engine swap with downtime a project can lose steam and stall it permanently as previously mentioned.

 

thanks again for your advice!!! I am definitely looking at the build threads. Am I reading correctly that I would not be able to use my current auto transmission?

 

The 350 cars from the factory used 700r4s which is what your car has so it should work fine, how long it will last depends on how it’s treated etc. I would check to see if they have the same torque converter and that could be another mod worth looking into if you swap motors is a higher stall converter as you will have the motor out so easy access.

 

thanks I will put that in my note book

 

I think the 2.8 has a different bell housing than the small block, if so your 2.8 trans would not be usable. You may be able to take advantage of the current trend of LS swaps. Many people are removing small blocks for LS swaps.You may be able to buy an engine ,trans and wiring harness from some one doing a swap. In any case, remember that getting a different engine mounted in a car is only a part of the job. After we have done a number of swaps we are nolonger surprised by the details but the first time it can be overwelming.

 

I think you right about the transmission, i was reading the v6 swap page and it was stated that they are different. What a bummer with this tansmission only have 12k easy miles on it. I will look around at whats available. I am looking at the summit blueprint 350 crate engine and i am curious if anyone has used one. They look to be in the mid 300 hp range and the price is not bad
thanks for your advice

 

Look at it as a chance to get a performance oriented transmission with a higher stall converter. You could always get one from a junkyard and have it rebuilt to your specs.

I did not know the 700r4 from the V6 would not work but that’s what is great about this site is the other ppl sharing knowledge.

 

One other thing I'd strongly suggest which Reddragon88gta didn't mention: if you're going from a 2.8 V6 to a 300HP+ V8 look at brake upgrades on both the front and rear. The stock brakes on these cars weren't great by the standards of the day, these days they're downright scary. It would be a shame to put in all the work doing other upgrades and plow into someone/something because you don't have adequate braking.

I personally went with C4 HD brakes on the front and PBR discs on the rear, but there are a ton of options out there. Most are relatively inexpensive for the value received and rely on stock parts so you'll be able to find pads/rotors/hoses easily when they need replacing. The C4 HD brakes are 13" rotors and dual piston calipers - a significant upgrade over the stock 10.5" rotors and single piston calipers. Unfortunately I don't have any hard data on how much they improved my stopping distance but they're definitely more effective than the stock hardware.

So that engine swap has now ballooned out to include suspension, transmission, rear gears, brakes, subframe connectors... fun how the project scope just keeps expanding!

 

Thank you for the all your advice

 

Searching for a used LS1
i found a you pull it yard that has two 95 Fire birds in the yard but they are not able to tell me or willing lol to let me know what engines are in them. My question is would there be a chance that they could have a v8 in them being just a regular bird. I am thinking about taking an hr. drive to check them out. Also if anyone have any advice on where i could find one in upstate NY. I have been searching the yards and very slim inventory.
Thanks Rich

 

If they are V8's , they would be LT1's . LS1 started in the Corvette in 97 and the f-bodys in 98.

 

Thanks I did not know that they would be an LT1
I wounder how many went in the standard bird i bet mostly the V6

 

What's your budget? That's going to determine what motor you can use. Keep in mind if you are doing the work and don't have access to a fairly well equipped shop, the tools and equipment to do a full drivetrain overhaul could easily set you back $2k+. Built motors are $5k, a fluffed up junkyard longblock with no machine work can climb over $2k in a hurry, etc. Not trying to scare you out of it, just trying to explain that if you don't do this kind of thing on the regular, it's a non-trivial investment and a lifestyle if you actually want to get it done.

 

https://www.car-part.com/

This is a nationwide inventory of salvage yards, its pretty easy to use and you can search by area to see what is near you, get an idea on prices etc.

 

i was thinking in the 3 to 4 k range but all i see on the junk yard listings are high mileage and high price. where do you find built engines in the 5k range
thanks for your advice

 

Thanks i have been checking it out but not that much on there

 

Well you buy a junkyard L31 for $300 and spend $4700 rebuilding it.

 

so I purchase a LS1 out of a 2001 firebird and i am thinking that it is a generation three,
This is going to be a winter project and i am researching what i can do to get it up into the 400 hp range. my question is did I make the right decision going with this engine vs. a truck LS engine?

 

400HP crank or rear wheel?

 

I would think mid to upper 400 hp crank range

 

2001 came with the LS6 intake and Corvette "243" cylinder heads. Check that upgrade off your list.
The 2001-2002 are the pinnacle of the LS1 variant.

A camshaft is worth 50 - 70 Hp without sacrificing drivabiliy.
Headers, exhaust, and tune will compliment that and you gotta buy that stuff anyway.
You'll make more than 400 HP, you have an LS engine now....

You're ahead with the LS1 vs. truck engine. It already has the right intake, oil pan, and accessory drive to fit into your car. It will literally bolt in with the right engine mounts. If you had bought a truck engine you would have had to hunt down all that stuff separately. And that F-body accessory drive is reeeeeally hard to find these days. LS1 is also about 100 pounds lighter, higher compression, and the car engines have better crankcase breathing.

 

Thank you so much for your explanation on everything !!! I am going to go through the engine and i was thinking about replacing the pistons. Would you do any porting or polishing of the heads while i am freshening up engine? Also any thoughts on any other upgrades while the engine is torn down
Thanks Rich

 

How many miles are on this engine? Why do you want to tear it down?

 

Unfortunately i do not know that the millage but the engine did run before it was taken out. My brother in law is suggesting freshening the engine while its out i guess it's his engineering nature. He would be doing the engine work i guess the thought is to have it fresh for many years.

 

It is very important to know why you're doing something, before you do it. I'd stick a borescope down the plug holes and if the bores look good, just run the LS1 as an assembled longblock and focus on getting your cam + springs swap right. Boost and nitrous are reasons to do a piston upgrade, and half of that reasoning is simply to set the ring gap.

 

I just want to do this once and i would like to have the block cleaned and start fresh, i am not in a big rush with the project. My brother in law is a very good engine builder so i know it will be done right. I would think that with possible high mileage and not the best care, there has to be parts that are warn

 

I thought this was a budget build

If you want to port the heads then try to get it done by Advanced Induction. Lead times are long, and they became a black hole of communication during covid. I don't know if that has improved or if they got their act together again. But they know how to port a stock head....

Corvette owners are constantly selling barely used stuff. I always made a habit of watching the sale ads at Corvetteforum.com
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If you start down the slippery slope of modifying this engine for power then you'll have so much money in it that the initial purchase cost becomes a moot point and you'll be scratching your head wondering why didn't you just get an LS3?

A camshaft is cheap power though, and all LS engines respond remarkably well to a cam.