austleadfoot

From memory the third gen shaft are missing about 6 to 10 teeth , where as the hq shaft either does not or it has a flat section

peterc005

@treefiddy - looks like you're the test pilot on this one.

Dave from Ponti World knows his stuff. I've bought a bit of gear from him.

These are all Saginaw steering boxes, and the design is fairly simple and a lot of parts interchange well. It's not just the steering boxes, GM seem to have standardised a lot, including ball joints, A arms, tie rod ends etc.

Most Saginaw steering boxes have three bolts, but some have four. The four box boxes will even bolt up to the three bolt cars fine. GM went to a lot of trouble to get interchangeable parts (to save money I guess) so I suspect the steering shafts will interchange. Later model components appear better and generally bolt into earlier model cars. A steering box from a 2005 Nissan 4WD will bolt into a 1968 Camaro.

The best way forward here is to confirm the model number being used (probably an 800) and then look up the drawings and parts manual.

TreeFiddy

Heh, so what else is new . I've spent quite a bit of time in the wreckers over the years, adapting oddball parts from this or that.

From what Austleadfoot said, it might need a little modification.

Yep, spent a few $$$ there myself.

austleadfoot

any updates ? just droped a zz4 in the engine bay and about to start the plumbing ,header issues i think too,

TreeFiddy

Hey Aust, nah I've gone all quiet again. Life's intervened again with other boring non-car stuff, as it does

Had to put 'er back together again with the manifolds, for rego. Will probably rip into it again over xmas. What's your plan for headers?

austleadfoot

Got a set similar to yours , cheep copies , looks to be the same issue as you had

MickyMcD

I have a set of tri-y headers from a RHD Impala on the way (hopefully) from Brisbane that had already been clearanced for a 350 in an Impala with a Saginaw. I am hoping that I won't have to do too many modifications to make it fit, but I will keep you guys updated and post photos as I go.

On an alternative note, Brisbane guys I am having dramas getting them freighted up. Seriously, I have purchased headers and had them shipped for $30 yet Fastway Couriers wants $160. AAE want $130, what is going on? Any recommendations for freight?

Cheers,
Mick

austleadfoot

had same clearence issues as your pic,,my no 2 pipe was wedged against the steering shaft ,and the no 4 and 6 pipes against the rear flex knuckle...fixed no 4 and 6 by un bolting the steering colum then expanding the 4 holes up and out ,about 45 deg and about 7 -8 mm. now clears the no 4 and 6 pipe by 1/4 inch ,no 2 pipe had about 1 mm clearence but no gaskit on extractors yet ,so big hammer dinted the pipe at the apropriat spot .not pretty but it worked,now 3 - 4 mm clearenceon pipe no 2

austleadfoot

micky , pm me your ph no

TreeFiddy

Cool, sounds like your particular conversion gave u a little more room to move than mine does. Which four bolts did you move? Must have missed something here.

austleadfoot

where the steering colum goes through the fire wall ,you have one big hole for the steering colum and 3 small holes that bolt the sreering shaft in place.you have to move it up and away from the engine

TreeFiddy

Ah gotcha. Someone mentioned doing that on the US (left) side a few posts up. I can see the 3 small and 1 large holes on the left side, now unused or course. But my rh conversion doesn't seem to have them on the right side - just the 1 big one has been made . The column just pokes thru the firewall restrained only by this hole, and doesn't use the 3-bolt plate far as I can see.

It's nearly impossible for me to see the column-firewall interface, due to the hvac/ac airboxes enveloping it both inside and outside being in the way (stock locations). I'd have to pull it all apart, enlarge the main hole, and weld the void left behind.

I'll have to have a closer look, but in my case moving the column looks way harder then the Jeep shaft swap.

Can you post some pics of your headers in place here? Also - what are your plans for the y-pipe?

VAN454

I've got one

BTW, great thread guys, lots of good tips I may have to look into the jeep shaft for mine.

peterc005

@TreeFiddy - have you been having any joy with the steering shaft?

My car has gone of for paint and should be back early in January. Having a bit of a holiday from the Camaro.

TreeFiddy

Wow, is there a single part on your car you haven't replaced or upgraded recently

By comparison, I'm feeling really humbled by my little exhaust challenge . Your Camaro's gonna be completely beeeyatchin when she's done

No time for shaft shenanigans lately, got a lot of work lately so my TA's back on heavy dd duty, and spare time's back on the renovation. Here a teaser though:



Jeep shaft is laid over the stock one, roughly in place. Needs a little more tarting up, will do once I determine whether it's viable. It's not a Grand Cherokee shaft, just the regular one. This might actually turn out to be better for my case, as the top part is narrower and might just clear the airbox without having to clearance it.

The fat part is 46mm OD, versus 63mm stock and 40mm for the FR joint. It's also a couple inches further down the shaft towards the front, which should probably place it out of interference with the #6 pipe. The front rag joint delete will also allow me to ditch the washers that have been used as spacers from the steering box to the frame, giving me another 5-6mm which might let the #2 pipe clear unmolested.

Curious - does Austleadfoots's easy solution above apply in your case?

peterc005

My Camaro is in a thousand pieces and will take a while to get on the road. I rented space in a local racing workshop, but the car will live in the paint shop for a while. Ater then I'll bring it home for the assembly.

I'm pretty sure the steering shafts are Saginaw, rather than GM-specific parts so stuff like Nissan 4WD shafts would also work if the length is ok.

Looks like the steering shaft swap will make the headers a much easier swap

peterc005

@TreeFiddy - I'm about the buy the same headers.

Is it only for first/front pipe that interferes with the steering shaft?

I'm inclined to do the steering shaft upgrade and then just bend or cut-shut the front pipe.

TreeFiddy

In my case, it's the cyl #2 pipe hits the shaft, and cyl #6 pipe hits the uni joint. Never know, you might get lucky and have no issues, or an easy fix like austleadfoot.

Shaft upgrade and cut/shut is exactly what I'm going to do.

However, project 'cram the headers in over Xmas' is on hold indefinitely again, due to this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ml#post5439050

Been trying to fit this project in all year; and this year just seems determined not to give me a break

AUZ28

Any further progress with anyones header installs in this thread ?

Been an interesting read, and by looking at the pics it seems that RHD conversions aren't all the same and adding further mods are going to be different for each of us. Would be interesting to know when/where each of the RHD conversions took place. I know Southerlands (gold coast) did mine in 1990. I have a full mirror conversion including brake booster/master cylinder, all the air/con was swapped to the left hand side and totally re-plumbed internally. The air/con has since be removed.

I have a hq-wb variable ratio PS box that bolts to a re-inforced chassis rail, I don't have any washers spacing it of the rail like I read above, I haven't done any measurements yet but I think I might have slightly more room to play with. I was going to modify the steering shaft and replace that bulky/ugly upper uni joint. Wasn't aware of the jeep shaft till I was reading through this post. That's something ill look into. I'm a bit reluctant to re-drill the fire wall to move the shaft up and away from the engine but if last resort ill do what must be done.

Just to make things harder for myself I'm going to play with the hooker 2055's. I'll be removing the air pipes, but will try to do as little to the headers as I can (which will be a bit). Steering shaft mods first.

Being that the 2055's seem to be the preferred header in the US and seem to be a dream for us Aussie's and reading repeatedly that they can't fit makes me want to do this even more.

Sorry for a massive post. Will be watching this post and will post how I go in a month or 2. Cheers Pete

peterc005

If you search there is a previous post I did discussing various steering box options.

Your HQ-WB box is probably the best option, but Saginaw boxes were used on a lot of different cars. There was a special RHD box for US postal van jeeps, also Nissan 4WD vehicles here.

You are right, the Hooker 2055 are probably the best header.

Converting from a rag joint to a universal joint will save you some space.

Let us know how you go!

austleadfoot

mine is done and on the road if u want to look,a bloke in town imports sets of extractors already modified to fit rhd third gen cars,i have sent u a pm with my ph no

TreeFiddy

What brand are they - the Flowtechs or something better?

peterc005

@TreeFiddy - how's your car going?

TreeFiddy

Still sitting in the garage with busted shift cable and snapped handbrake cable, held in place by bricks. Parts have all arrived, just too much going on as usual to get any time to work on it. Accident damage is all fixed, just waiting for new tail lights to arrive.

My sexy stainess FT knockoffs are just gettting bounced from one side of the garage to the the other for the last year or so

Can you source a cheap set of 2055's to play with?

austleadfoot

Cheap Chinese. Copies that have been modified to fit , not sure of price . They have bigger pipes now and supposed to fit better . I'm at acacia ridge

peterc005

@TreeFiddy - how's your car going?

Mine is finally ready to pick up from the paint shop. Hopefully the weather warms up a bit so I get a chance to put it all together again.

TreeFiddy

Hey Pete! Had no time to work on it for quite a while. It's having a good period of reliablilty, been daily driving happily for a while now so I'm loathe to mess with it . Still haven't fixed all the accident damage, ie new tail-lights still aren't on - just got naked lenses

My pos beaten up but uber-reliable Falcon's been sucking up any spare time, rego's due.

peterc005

How did the accident damage repair work out?

TreeFiddy

Pretty good; the bodywork was all sorted out months ago, but I still have to fit the new tail-lights, third brake light, and fix the demister. Detailed it in my other thread, check out pic in post #118

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ml#post5439050

Have you made any more progress on the header issue yourself? Doing anything on that front is a far-off fantasy timewise for me atm.

peterc005

Got this idea from another thread.

Attached is a picture of LS3, GTO and C5 exhaust manifolds, which look a big improvement on the SBC manifolds.

The GTO exhaust looks the best option, and I'm thinking that as the GTO was originally a RHD car it may also have better clearance for a RHD third gen?

TreeFiddy

Interesting comparison, but I suspect all of those will be trying to stick their collector's through the k-member. Like the typical block-hugger or rams-horn style which are known not to fit. Really would have to get a set and wave it around inside a thirdgen engine bay to find out.

peterc005

I think there are two potential options here:

1) the LS1 manifolds are short, allowing a longer Y pipe which can be bent around the K member and steering shaft.

2) the GTO right manifold appears angled towards the rear, which I hope would clear the steering.

I'll find a set of SBC exhaust manifold gaskets and see what they fit on. Eagle Spares have a couple of crate LSx engines on display, I might visit them with the gaskets and a tape measure.

WestOzGTA

Just found this thread and have read every post...
Couple of quick comments...
I reckon there would be enough interest to sell a few sets of modified headers if we could get them delivered here at a reasonable price... If there was anything that was a guaranteed fit for those of us with ~3" clearance at #6 and ~4" at #2 and we could get it for say, less than $600, I think we'd all be jumping at the chance...

Peter those LS3 manifolds remind me a bit of the Sanderson QP1200s... not sure if the QP1200s would fit or not (need a tight bend down at the back?), but Sanderson told me
"They flow better than a stock manifold, but not as well as our normal tubular blockhugger. The blockhugger we normally offer for a 3rd gen is our CC3. These are only 3-3/4 wide and should still fit your TransAm." (The CC3 look like the typical block hugger headers TreeFiddy is referring to though).

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sand...El-Camino.html

I ended up staying with my stock manifolds... all too hard and was going to be too expensive etc and didn't want to stuff around with modding anything - but big props to TreeFiddy... and mate, if you have success maybe you'd like to start selling modded headers to RHD thirdgen owners...
So kept the stock manifolds and just replaced the rest of the stock press bent POS...

WestOzGTA

Oh yeah and the GTO manifolds look like a reasonable option, if they fit... need some good measurements, or someone get a set to TreeFiddy

VAN454

ok, I can help a bit here, since I have fitted an ls1 to my rhd trans am (first one in the world as far as I can find) . gto manifolds are commodore (vt-vz), thay are not even close to fitting. ve commodore (g8) are close but they touch the lower control arm
m mount on the right hand side. the corvette ones pictured would be aimed at the crossmember, so they are out. I ended up using 98 f-body manifolds but still had to have the right hand one modified to fit, and the clearance is super tight.

peterc005

@VAN454 - thanks for the tips.

Comparing the SBC and LS exhaust gaskets, I can see big differences in the exhaust ports on the heads and now don't think this will be an option.

Hadn't seen the Sanderson QP1200 cast exhaust manifolds before.

Also found these:
http://www.castheads.com/corvette_systems.php

Apparently the LT1 exhaust manifolds will fit an L98 engine as well and could be worthwhile.

TreeFiddy

Sorry guys, been off the air a few days.

Heh if anyone's da man, u da man! Heard of a few Aussie LS swaps in progress, but not one completed yet. Can you post up a pic of the installed manifold clearance? BTW - how did blue slip go - they're complete ***** up here NSW.

There's a guy in the Fabrication forum atm doing a full drivetrain/firewall/dash/console swap from a VY, wonder what he'll do for exhaust.

The LS heads have equispaced ports, not compatibile with sbc. Though the manifolds do look way less restrictive than the log style 3rd gen stockers; at least there's some attempt to seperate the cylinders. Are the LT manifolds log style too, or something better?

Hey dude, welcome aboard this epic thread! As you've probably gathered from reading, I only get tiny slices of time to devote to this project as life allows; I'm sure Pete or one of the guys above will crack this long before I do .

I seem to recall the guy who runs Pontiworld was proposing a local group purchase of pre-modded FT headers on a local forum site a few years back. Don't think anything cam of it tho.

peterc005

The guy at Ponti World seems to sell Flowtech headers with the suggest that one or two pipes may need to be modified.

I prefer the Chinese knock-offs because they are stainless steel.

My car is painted and the T-Top pieces are ready to be picked up from the powder-coating place for reassembly.



The Camaro was originally white but a previous owner repainted it metallic blue when the RHD conversion was done. I've taken it back to the original color.

Paint was done by Simon at PaintWerks in Moorabbin and he is recommended.

TreeFiddy

Xlnt! Fisrt full pic I've seen of your car I think, paint has gone really well. Go the white thirdgens

Guess u got the fit problems with the new front fenders sorted out. Gonna keep the Convo's?

peterc005

The Camaro has been an ugly duckling, with a sand blasted body and new panels. It's only now with a coat of paint that it's been presentable.

I'm thinking of getting a set of CTW 17 * 7 silver wheels and BFG G-Force tyres.

It should have dropped an inch all round with a set of Eibach Proline springs, but is still sitting pretty high.

Underneath the car is BMR LCAs, adjustable panhard bar, outer sub-frame connectors. All the old rubber bushings have been replaced with poly-urethane units. There is a new set of large LS disks on the front.

The big job now will be to turn a pile of a thousand parts into a drivable car.

TreeFiddy

Damn I'm jealous . I really want to find the time to add all that good stuff to mine. I'll spend a bit of money with Founders someday . Actually, maybe before I get back to the header project - this car handles brilliantly, a rear corner carver. But the ride is bone-jarring, with presumably stock WS6 springs and 36mm front sway bar. Not one smidge of body roll, but you feel every pebble you run over.

Your front is sitting pretty high - is the engine out? Have had a set of Prolines on the wish list for a while.

peterc005

That's the sad thing - the Proline springs and engine are both installed and it sits so high.

I'll get the engine running and drive over some speed bumps to see if that settles the springs. I even remove the spring rubber isolators and just used a bit of rubber to reduce the front height a bit more.

TreeFiddy

What's the tyre diameter and fender height? Stock was pretty high; I've read plenty of cases of lowering springs raising the ride height over the sagging stockers. Here's a stock measurement from an ancient thread:

Edit: Sorry, accidentally managed to attach the link for my accident thread. Try this instead:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...de-height.html

AUZ28

first thing. I friggen hate computers!!!!!!
just lost everything I just typed

so not typing it now but ill just post some pics soon

anyway the jist of it was I finally got hooker 2055's to fit without any clearance issues

sooooo pissed I lost the last coupe of hours typing and indepth howto
but happy cause my hookers fit =)

MickyMcD

whoah man, please take some pictures and let us know what you did. It would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Mick

AUZ28

Steering shaft adapter

made this adapter to fit inbetween rag joint and steering box coupler. this adaptor is used to keep steering wheel straight when using a borgeson 1DD - 3/4DD top uni joint (which rotates shaft 90*)

AUZ28

new Borgeson 1"DD-3/4"DD uni joint much smaller than stock joint
I removed the steering column to fit (to hard to do in car)

AUZ28

the headers do need to be modified, have to cut and shut second pipe(Cyl.4)
my exhaust shop is welding this up this week so next weekend I should be able to fit it all up. My original post which went somewhere on the interweb but Not here =( explained in detail what I did to the headers and steering shaft

AUZ28

Heat and move third pipe away from second pipe.
cut second pipe and move in, (getting welding up during the week)
second pipe prob has moved in 1/2 - 3/4 inch its enough to clear the shaft.

I also heated and flattened the outside of the first three pipes to give more room, I did that before fitting(prob didn't need to) but will be wraping headers anyways

AUZ28

cut about 10mm of end of column and used a die grinder to flatten out the flat sides some more. this was to get the uni to go further up the shaft and away from the third pipe. pic doesn't show but i die grinded more off the end it just opened up the original hole for the bolt that went thru the stock uni. I cut a bit of the old shaft and put it inside the column for a bit of strength