Hey everyone, I just found this site looking to buy a 3rd gen. I've been leaning towards getting a firebird over a camaro. But I have noticed very quickly that there are very few firebirds with manual transmission. Obviously all the 350's came with automatics, but I am still surprised that I can't find too many M5 trannies. I couldn't find ANY firebirds with M5 within 200 miles of where I live on Yahoo! Auto's.
Is it just coincidence or are there less V8 M5 cars made?

BTW, I hope this falls into the category of "History" because there's no General thread, or Off-topic, or Introduction that I've seen here.

 

There were many fewer cars made with manuals than automatics.

 

Don't get discouraged !!! Keep searching and you will find the right one for you !

 

Thanks, to be honest, I'm only 16 and this would be my first car(when I get it). I really don't like automatics for some reason, and I was disappointed that I couldn't find many of them to get an idea of the price.

I'm actually kind of stuck right now, if I buy a car, I can't drive it until I get a job to pay for insurance. But if my parents help me out, I could drive it, but they wouldn't help me until at least Christmas. I've been jonesing for a car a while now, but I don't have a lot of options, do I?

 

I bought my last firebird off of eBay for 800 bucks. It runs great and it's a V6 5 speed. You want a V8 and so do I.

I bought a complete V8 5 speed change over kit from here for a few hundred bucks last year. The engines are also easy to come by. If you buy a V8 car, even if it's automatic, you can get the full kit (mine came with flywheel, clutch and transmission, pedals, everything,) for a few hundred bucks and then have what you want. If you like to work on your car, you will not have to change the pedals or modify the hole in the transmission tunnel, you'll just need to change the V6 only parts to V8 parts. The rest of the 5 speed stuff is the same.

Or keep looking, you appear to have the time!

 

Sounds like what you did is exactly what I would buy. I don't have a ton of experience with fixing cars up, so do you think I would just screw everything up if I tried to change an automatic to a 5 speed?
It's funny people are trying to sell their 100,000+ miles cars for over $3k. I can't find a deal for anything under 2k without it being a V6(not this site, you guys know what you're doing)..That's probably why I have to keep looking..

 

I would looking for the following:
1) a TPI, some people look down on them, but honestly they hold their value better than a TBI or a 4 BBL, They are more desirable, and you can do alot to them to make them faster, you just need to learn to burn chips if you want to get serious... All in all I never plan to buy another TBI or 4BBL 3rd gen again unless I am using it for parts.
2) a 5 Speed is quite unusual, The Firebirds are more uncommon than a Camaro, BUT they are out there...

Where do you live, have you tried Autotrader.com ?

JOhn

 

I think most the manual 3rd gens are in my area. 3 of my 5 thirdgens were orignal 5 speed cars, my 88 Formula was an auto and now is a 5 speed (took 1 day to convert my car and my friends car to auto & manual, we just swapped all the parts in my driveway at the same time).

 

Okay, I guess I'm going to do a little history check to find the main difference between TPI and TBI. Why do people look down on them though? I haven't been here for a while, but you seem like one of the more knowledgeable people here..just wondering why you disagree with people about it.
I'll still keep my lookout for a 5 Speed Firebird, but my question still stands:
Is it possible for me to change the transmission, knowing (almost)nothing mechanical about cars. I'd use the internet, you guys, and a friend or two once in a while. And i have a lot of time.

I live in Brevard County, 1 hour South East of Orlando, FL. Yahoo! Auto's says "Powered by Autotrader" so I think it's the same program, but I'll check Autotrader just to be safe.

 

You can do it. You take your time, and lots of pictures. Measure everything 3 or 4 times.

When you buy a "change-over kit," make sure you get EVERYTHING. I got it all for a few hundred bucks, including the flywheel.

 

have you tried craigslist.com, they ususally have lots of goodies on there.

 

Try this guy...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...e-t-5-set.html

If it doesn't work, he's in the classifieds!!

 

Thanks KrisW for looking for some deals. Right now I don't have a car, and am not 100% positive on what I want to do (Start with V6, change to V8 later or just get a V8, camaro or firebird).
Don't clutches and flywheels need to be replaced after a while? It'd be great if I knew how long, because a lot of these cars have over 100k on them, so if I bought a used one..
It may come down to I'll find a sweet deal that I can't afford to not buy. Plus I still have to see about the money issue with my parents.

Torque173, no I haven't gone to craigslist, but I'm going to check it out right now, thanks.

 

clutch, yes

Flywheels can usually be machined and re-used but they are not expensive to replace if you run a chevy engine.

 

Cars with Throttle Body Injection are basically base models with the slowest V8s made. I think the TBI gets a lot of BS for no reason, personally. THe motors are slow, but it's not like the Throttle Body Injection is WHY it's slow.

A 92 TBI car has the same hp as an 82 Z28. Keep that in mind. But make no mistake, the TBI system does work well for what it is, but it does have faults. And TBI motors are dog slow. They are slower than your average beatup Honda accord running around. If you try to run it through a whole quarter mile, you have a good chance of seeing Jesus come back before you actually make it all the way to the other end of the track.

TBI cars are cheaper and last forever, and if you're okay with dealing with a crappy, slow V8 that wont ever die, try to find a 305 TBI car with a 5-speed. I've noticed a lot of 305 TBI cars with 5-speeds. A v8 5-speed will work with any other v8 you put in. You'll have to junk a v6 5-speed.

And TPI cars aren't really that much faster... They have a little more potential if you throw money at the motors themselves. But no thirdgen motor is really all that hot except for the 350 TPI, and the TPI really holds them back if you ask me.

So I disagree with what you were told above. If you're 16 you're on a budget. Get a 305 TBI car, it will be cheaper, it will last forever, and the T-5 will work with any other V8 you bolt up to it later on. It may not last long after that if you bang on it hard, though.

 

1) If you get a V6 car you will have to replace both the Trans and Engine to go to a V8. The Transmissions are set up differently and I think the V6 Trans has a different bolt pattern, they make adaptors but the trans was not designed to be used in front of a V8, so it might fail sooner than later.

2) I never said that a TBI was crappy in my statement, I simply stated that I would not buy one to actually use in a driver... The TBI cars are a well built and a long lasting engine, it has nothing to do with it being special in any way over the TPI engine it has to do with the fact that because it has low HP it never has a chance to reallly wear like a higher HP engine.
3) In some regards there is more room for improvement on a TBI engine... It was basically the middle of the road 305 Truck engine stuffed into a car, Like any other engine if you do some work you can get them to move, but they are about a second slower in the quarter than a TPI engine, especially the M5 TPI cars...

Ultimately its up to you, a TBI car is not a "Bad" car, but it will not have the resale value of an equal TPI car, people like seeing the spider under the hood.

To answer a question, Manual transmissions require more maintence than an Automatic, pure and simple...

 

Okay, so if I get a V6, it might as well be automatic, because I'm changing almost everything anyways. Good to know. I guess I don't really care if it's a Camaro or Firebird, and they seem a lot alike, engine wise. If I get a Camaro, I probably won't have to do all this transmission swapping, since a lot more Camaro's are 5 speeds.

I know if I don't bother changing the engine, I'll get a TPI. But If I want to change the engine to oh, lets say an LS1, I'd just get a TBI for gas mileage, so when I take it out, I won't feel like I threw away a powerful engine. Sound like a good idea?

 

The TBI engine doesn't get much better gas mileage, if it all better, then a 305 TPI AT w/ 2.73s rear end ratio. Camaros and Firebird are basically identical drivetrain wise. Their only different is the air induction system. It really depends on what you can find in your price range.

 

GM basically tuned all of their cars to the same Fuel milage for the day. For any given year there is not a huge difference between a V6 and a V8, TPI, TBI, or even the 350 for fuel milage. Basically they are all within about 10% of each other EXCEPT the I4 which was the most economical. I got 25mpg in my 89 350 Convertible @ 70-75 Mph With the top up. At best a V6 got around 28Mpg (according to the EPA Info I have) IIRC, To me thats not really significant, escpecially when you consider that the V6 MPG was based on a Coupe, which has better aero and is lighter.

For Every 10% in weight reduction you get about 8% better fuel economy.

John

 

I really appreciate all this information you guys are giving me, and it's going to help me a lot when I find the right car to buy.
I'm going to go this weekend and look at a car I saw on the side of the road. Doesn't look too bad, under 2k, camaro, red with the two black stripes on the hood. I'll let you guys know how it goes.