Guess I`ll put this here since it`s somewhat related to a restoration of my car and its future.

I`ve been thinking of selling my RS.

It`s my first car, and I`ve had it almost twelve years. I swore so many times I`d never sell it, because we all have heard the stories about selling first cars and the regret that goes with it. I could get a pretty good price for it, and could recoup most of the money I`ve spent on NOS parts.

I could have a really nice chunk of change for a downpayment on a new summer toy, a new 5.0 Mustang.

Mustang pros:

--11s with simple bolt ons (under-rated 412 hp bone stock)
--Hands down by far the nicest interior of any of the muscle offerings from the Big 3
--Legendary 5.0, but clean sheet design
--Awesome handling
--Brembo brake option
--Brand new so it could really be MY toy that I order brand new and utterly flawless in every way at my own hand that I could keep for the long haul or upgrade into something brand new every few years for not a lot of cash outlay
--No problems because it`s new
--A motor worth more than it`s weight in scrap, in other words a motor actually worth building.

Mustang cons:

--Car payment (insurance is cheap for me on anything so no worries)
--???

Camaro pros:

--Sentimental value
--Very uncommon color
--Like the feeling of something old and all the compliments it gets

Camaro cons:

--150k miles
--Not flawless (will need/want a resto)
--Restoration parts are somewhat difficult to find (seat upholstery, for one)
--Slow
--Boat anchor motor
--Will never be worth anything
--The dilemma of hacking it up to go LSX and that whole can of worms that goes with a heavily modified car, or dumping an obscene amount of money into a 150k mile RS for a restoration that just doesn't make much sense

As you can see, the truth is there just isn't a lot going for the Camaro, truth be told.

The other thing is I don't have strong mechanical ability, which complicates going the modified route for the Camaro. I'd have to have the car built (won't use it as the butt of my learning, no way) which is expensive, but then god forbid the car has problems and needs to be troubleshot, etc. With a 412 hp Stang, I could have a shop throw on exhaust, intake, a little suspension work, a flash tune and run low 12s all day long without so much as screwing with the motor/fuel system, etc.

The thing I want to avoid is being that guy with 10 cars, unless it's 10 flawless cars. Ideally I'd like a nice DD, my high school car, something brand new as a weekend toy just once, and my '68 Charger R/T. Maybe a couple others also. But there is also a limit to garage space.

I'm just looking at this Camaro and wondering what the hell do I do with it going forward. I want to keep my life simple too, I don't want a ton of cars unless I have a ton of flawless cars. It just seems like it would be so much easier and simpler and streamlined to just get the new car I want, ordered the way I want, brand new, and then down the road add my Charger and call it a day. Something new, something old, both flawless, both easy to deal with.

The real issue is just wondering what to do with it. It's not really worth a stock resto, but it's also probably not worth the headaches of tearing it apart and modding the hell out of it. I tend to like stock/bolt-on cars, so I'm not even sure I like the idea of modding it to the hilt even if I had the mechanical ability to deal with it myself, or the ability to pay to have it all built.

Talk me out of moving on?

 

Well, since I am all GM all the time, Im going to contradict myself. If the only choices were a worn out Camaro or one of those new 5.0 Mustangs, you have to go with the Mustang. Those thing are evil.

How about a new SS Camaro?

 

Imo its a question of which you like better, sure the new mustang starts off with more power, but the new muscle cars really are not that much better than 3rd gens, only the engines are better imo, a new camaro, mustang, and challenger pull .93, .92, .92gs on a skidpad respectively, an '85 IROC-Z pulls .92g, 3rd gens are also lighter, I would put money on it that my car is in the 3k-3100 range on weight, a new mustang is the lightest of the muscle cars atm, and still weighs in at 3500 lbs.

Last but not least, and this is really why it boils down to which car you like better, for the ammount of money you would spend on a new mustang gt, you could easily have your camaro restored to its original glory, and a lot more if you chose, if I had the money it takes to buy a new mustang gt to sink into my camaro, I could build it up to obliterate the new GT all day long....3rd gens are underdogs, people also under rate them because they had low power outputs stock, but they can keep up with anything on the road today with a few mods to the engine, the handling already keeps up stock.....

 

Also something else thats my own

When I decided to save for a performance car cause I was on my 2nd grocery getter hand me down sedan and sick of it, I considered several other cars, I chose camaro over mustang cause its a lot less common.....its kind of like that scene in gone in 60 seconds, when nicholas cage is at the dealership and says he doesn't want to be like all the other wienies that all bought ferraris, or w/e it was he said. New mustangs and Camaros are a dime a dozen, my car probably fetches twice the attention they do, and I can't wait till the 3rd gen well starts drying up and people suddenly realize how great it was and they all want one, cause at the rate people neglect/crush/abandon/forget them etc. there won't be many left soon. It's only after something is gone people truely realize how great it was, be it painters, musicians, authors, cars or pretty much anything.
Also there is some satisfaction to be had in restoring a car, if I hadn't bought my car it would almost certainly have wound up in a scrap heap.

 

Also its a labor of love, its not really financially viable to put money into any car, beyond what it takes to keep it on the road, but on the flip side the moment you drive that shiny new mustang off the lot its value drops to half.

 

To be very honest,

the new Mustang looks nice, and with it's big pile of brand new components will last quite a while without breaking down or requiring work or replacement parts.

Your Camaro is over 20 years old. It can be well kept, but there will be no end to the replacing worn parts on it.

I doubt the Mustang has a rattle or squeek and the seats will be new, fresh and comfy.

And I will not even bring up throttle response as a selling point. Or the fact that since you order it, you could get a manual transmission.

For me there would really be only one possible outcome. Keep the Camaro!












( or buy the Mustang if you're set on it, but at least sell me those hubcaps )

And towards the arguement that the Camaro will not appreciate in value, trust me, neither will that new Mustang

 

Guys,
I know this has to do with the history of a 12 year old relationship with a car, but I'm questioning it's placement in this forum. Comparing a 20 year old car to buying a new Mustang, in this forum is directing me towards locking it. Prove it's value or I will have to moderate.

 

A beastly car for sure (as is the Challenger), but the interiors just don't do it for me. They still scream "Fischer Price--My First Interior". Kind of sad GM can't get it together where interiors are concerned. Performance-wise the cars are all on par, so you could use any car here in my post, I just happen to be partial to the Stang but a Camaro or Challenger would also pose the same topic.

I don't know, it's pretty difficult to say that the only thing better is the engine; to me those cars are worlds better all around. Build quality, creature comforts, performance options (real gears instead of 2.73s and Brembos which also come with stiffer spring rates and bigger swaybars, drool), safety, technology, etc. For me the list goes on (again this applies to all the cars from the Big 3). I will give you that the cars have gotten bigger and more bloated. My 3200 lb Camaro has a nice feel to it, heading into the 3500 lb range is just getting bloated. Actually, that's one reason I am leaning towards the Mustang--it's probably the least bloated/bulky of the current options, but it's still a big car, no doubt.

Thing is it's a lot easier to throw a few thousand down and take out a standard low interest car loan than it is to save up the full amount cash, which is what I would have to do to do the Camaro up; sure I could get a personal loan and tell them it's to restore a car, but that doesn't seem wise. Thing is, when I do the Camaro, I want to make sure I have enough money for the whole shebang before I start--paint and body, interior, and mechanical/drivetrain. When I do it I just want to go boom-boom-boom, I don't want it to be a dragged out project that takes six years so that by the time the new paint job sees daylight it's been sitting for 5-6 years. A car payment is a lot easier, also in terms of the time commitment, not considering potentially getting screwed by shops or whatever can come up doing a build. It's just easier--drop my dimes at the dealership one morning and park the car in one piece in the garage done and dusted.

I should've probably clarified, while it is financial on one hand, on the other hand it isn't. I realize I could make a monster of my Camaro for the price of a new Stang, but I don't really race around or drive my cars hard at all...quite the opposite actually, though it's still nice to have the power on tap just in case you want it, even if it's rarely used. Sure I can make a Gremlin beat a Lambo, but at the end of the day the guy driving the Lambo, drives a Lambo.

Wasn't sure where else to put it...been a decade since we've had a non-tech forum, but I won't rehash here what's been rehashed many times. Just wasn't sure where to put it, new Camaro SS can be substituted for Mustang and it would be much the same thread.

I mean where do we stand spending big money restoring/modding these less-than-IROC/GTA cars? Nobody is even making much for TPI cars anymore, so everyone and their mom is being forced into the LSX swap. Great swap, great motors, great drivability, etc., but it's just going to turn into another "Oh, another one of those LS1s" in time where they too are a dime a dozen, just like Flowmasters on a Mustang.

It's like yeah we can spend the money on the cars, but options are pretty limited if you mod. If you want to restore it to stock, good luck. I've got a nice pile of NOS parts which takes care of the exterior sans chin spoiler, but I can't find seat upholstery to save my life, let alone foams (I've seen the Classic Industries stuff...). Then if you do restore an RS/bird to stock, what's it worth? $8k on a good day from lowballers, and a bunch of snide comments about rebuilding a 305? Not that the financial aspect should matter when you love the car and have no plans to ever sell, but still you can't help but consider it. It's hard to stomach a big resto on a 17 second car, thing can barely get out of its own way.

I love the car, but let's be honest, it wasn't a good time for performance--truthfully, NOW is the time, more so than the muscle car years ever were. I saw a YouTube vid yesterday of a new 5.0 with stock engine and transmission with bolt ons run 10 flat. That is insane. Thing is, these horsepower glory years are going to be limited. It's only a matter of time before the cars come down in price enough for Billy Badasses everywhere to afford one and kill themselves, driving insurance prices up so far that no manufacturer will want their name out in front of it, like what happened at the turn of this century, when GM all but flat-out ceased even advertising the F-body. Another example, the Mustang is getting a redesign in 2014, and there will be new CAFE standards in place requiring fleet averages to be 35 mpg; now of course that's a fleet average, so a performance car doesn't have to meet that goal, but they are strongly leaning towards a hybrid for the future of the Mustang--no thanks. There is only so much time left for these bright horsepower years.

 

I'd say keep the car. After having 6 of these things, they are ALL different; if you have a solid one, I'd definitely say keep it.

While not my first car, I seriously regret selling my '93 Beretta GTZ. I had so much into that car and with it being one of only 621 built that year, I was seriously stupid for getting rid of it. The money from it is LONG gone, but the regret lingers.... even 6 years later.

Oh, let me touch on this:
I'm not completely sold on the "new 5.0" yet. I'm not a Ford guy, but still, I'd wait to see some miles actually get put on these things. As for the car itself, they are serious pigs. You've gotta have 400hp to squeeze mid-12's out of 'em these days. All 3 of the retro cars have this problem - nearing 4000#s, these things are just straight up FAT. Do what ya want there, but personally, I strongly dislike the feeling these new cars give me. Sure, they're new and as far as HP numbers go, fast, but they've got a serious weight problem and it seems like its only gonna take a few years for their "automotive diabetes" to kick in. Maybe I'm wrong, but these new cars (retro Mustang/Challenger/Camaro) just don't do anything for me. They are to me, as the Corvette is to a true hot-rodder.... Parts cars.

 

I say take the mustang out of the discussion. What it comes down to is what the long term effect of selling a car that you have so much history with.

Id give anything to track down my first car again, I never should have sold it, not to mention that it would be worth 10 to 20 times what I sold it for.
Your car may not be an iroc, but that doesn't mean it's destined. To be worthless. It's a beautiful, original car. Its value will come someday, even quicker if you keep it original.

If you sell it, you will regret it. Maybe not in a year, but someday. Every year that goes by you'll hate yourself for getting rid of a car that you have so much history with.

Get yourself a nice car that you can put some miles on, but keep this car as a fun cruiser. Don't worry about how fast it is or isn't. These things aren't important in the long term

 

You have a great third gen, but as you mentioned, the only thing it has in terms of collector value is the rare color. I know you like them stock, but your car is a perfect candidate for the LSx/T56 route. Restoration doesn't make sense unless the sentimental value is so high that it's worth it to you (but it sounds like it isn't). I'd say you're options are: 1. Drive it into the ground as is, 2. LSx restomod it, 3. Sell it now and get something else.

The best part is that you can't lose!

The new Mustang 5.0s are beasts; I would take a BOSS Mustang 5.0 over the Camaro SS.

 

I would simply keep your car and add the 5.0 to your stable. Your car is worth more than you think. I assume your Camaro is paid for and it appears to be in great shape. If it were me, I'd leave it stock and keep it. Let everyone else mod their car. You'll be glad you did in the future!

 

I think about doing the same thing, although I'm not going to sell my IROC to get one.

The thing that gets me is no matter how cool/nice/fast it is, it's just another new car and I just can't get past having the same thing as everyone else on the road.

 

This is so true. My little V6 car get compliments that couldn't possibly get in alomst any car made in the last 10 years. Nobdy cares that it's a RS. if it bothers you that much, dress it up a little with IROC wheels and a foglamp grill. these things are reversable it you decide to go back to stock

 

puma,

As someone who has truly shared a dilemma like yours for a couple years now, let me give you my .02...especially seeing as how I have a car very much like yours, and I already DID my restoration...

1) The ability to order and buy your own new muscle car can be addicting. I've been fortunate to sell new Challengers for 3 years. They are incredible cars...I like them as much as, if not more than, new Camaros. Its fun to think about color, engine and option combos for your very own, brand-new car.

2) I also look at the MSRPs of these fantastic new vehicles, and cannot imagine spending over $35,000 to get what I want, for a car that will be driven a few thousand miles a year. Add to this the fact that I will lose about $5-7k in that first year? Pretty much kills the new-car buzz...eh?

3) I have been following third gen values since I was a kid...literally. This weak economy has allowed for some incredible deals for third gens that used to be out of my price range, personally. If I could find a way to do it, I'd keep all the cars I have now AND add a TTA...I've found some nice ones for low-mid teens. Unlike the new car option? Third gens have bottomed out in value, and I really believe they will increase. Selling your RS right now will realistically yield you about $4,000...pretty much what you paid for it, if I remember correctly. For $4,000, why even bother getting rid of it? Use the NOS parts you already own, and make it better.


4) If you don't care about the car enough to keep it, then sell it and move on. But if you do, decide what its worth to tie up in it before you do ANYTHING to it. At this point, after spending almost $15,000 on mine, I can't get rid of it. I love it, but it drives me crazy. I took it out for a little ride last night. 3 miles from home, I pull onto the main drag, run it hard through the gears, and I'm rewarded with white smoke billowing out the back I head home to find coolant spewed all over the right hand side of my engine bay. Prognosis? I THINK its the heater valve...I'll find out soon when my friend stops by to help me diagnose the mess.

I think to myself, I could dump this high-mileage, TBI, "never-gonna-be-worth-anything" RS for $7,000 or so, write off all the money I spent on this car that evaporated into thin air, and put the money down on a new car...

BUT...

Then I think about the love for the car itself. I think about WHY I did all this work to it in the first place. I had a dream...a vision...of what my dream "driver" F body would be. T-tops. Stick. Red. Loud V8. Audiophile-grade system. I wanted something I could drive angry, and love every minute of it.

And that is EXACTLY what I got...with and without all its faults.

So what am I saying? For the lousy money you will get for this car, KEEP THE CAR. Restore it over time. Don't mod it IF, and ONLY IF, you plan to sell it down the road possibly. The ONLY reason I can't get my money back from the RS is all the mods I did that have added truly no value to the car...but made it more enjoyable for me.

Would you be happier having the 5.0 AND the RS? I thought so. For $4,000, keep your car, and rebuild it over time, or down the road when the payments on the 5.0 are done.

 

That's a real nice looking car Puma. Your car is located in Minneapolis isn't it? I'm in Fargo. If you are going to sell I wouldn't mind a crack at it. The one I have is for my oldest son.

 

And HERE COMES THE FORUM POLICE.



Maybe if we had a general discussion board for this to go like EVERY OTHER FORUM on the internet, then we wouldn't need YOU moderating ****.

 

In Scott's defense, I think he's by far one of the fairer, more lenient moderators I've seen on various boards. It isn't his fault we don't have a general discussion board. You insulting him certainly isn't going to help matters, either

While I wish we had a general discussion forum as well, your approach by attacking mods isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Back on topic, so I changed out my $19, in-stock heater valve last night, and the RS once again runs proud and strong Its pretty cool now, because I just did the '90-'92 tach fix...mine was 700 RPM high at only 1,900, so you can imagine how far off it was on the higher end. I actually discovered my shift light comes on past 4,200 RPMs! Its like a whole new world

By the way, puma, that reminds me...you have this same tach. Yours is likely way off as well, with 150k miles on it. It may have been way off when you bought it (I bought mine with 107k, and it was off then). Your car may be faster than you realize. I know yours is an AT, so you may have already noticed at WOT, your tach goes way past redline.

I have yet to see someone with a '90-'92 cluster with over 50k miles that has a tach that works right.

 

Nothing against the moderators, but damn that's funny...

Topics like these are specifically why we DO need a general discussion area. Still can't figure out why we don't have one.... considering that there are over 100,000 registered members that all have opinions on off-topic threads that I'm sure that (at some point), they'd like to share....

 

Because this has gone off topic and the idea of an off topic forum has been discussed many times, you can thank ThePain for being a pain and getting this closed!!

Also, why do we need another off topic forum if every other board already has one!!!! Go over to those websites if you want to just talk. When you need technical advise on your third gen, we'll be here.