Hey everyone. I'm wanting to get input and thoughts from the history/restoration buffs around the site as to help improve the Car of The Month threads I have started in the Appearance section.

There has been notice that all of the cars being nominated last month, and so far this month have been modified during their restorations, and that this could be an unfair representation of the COTM for TGO.

I know that there is some beautiful restorations/restored cars in here and I would love for you to help nominate and share these with everyone.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...minations.html

I also was wondering if anyone had used a pre-bent fuel & brake line kits... I detailed the underside of my car and the original lines just look out of place now with everything else.

 

How bad are the lines? Sometimes a bit of scotch brite, elbow grease and clear coat can clean them up if they are not too far gone.

 

They are straight with no rust... overall I would say great shape. The tan/cream primer whatever coating is peeling off in spots and shows bare metal where other areas the coating is only partially applied. Scrubbing them off could work, but near the fittings and brackets could be a PITA?

 

The only way to clean them up would be to remove them from the car and scrub them down. I know the primer you are talking about. It looks like the lines have a greenish tint to them. It must be some sort of rust inhibitor. Eastwood must have something to match. If they are in good shape I would clean and reuse. I am not sure if there are replacements, but you could definitely make those look good and save some coin. There is nothing like original anyway.

 

So cleaning is option, but has anyone used a pre-bent stainless fuel, and or brake line kit?

 

The way it's going, we're going to run out of cars to nominate next month. It seems everyone nominateds resto-mod cars.

The easy fix is to do themes. For example:

Strictly Stock (resto or survivor)

Only stock cars can get nominated. There can be a few exceptions like new tires or freshening of rubber/seals, or replacement exhausts and the like (common sense stuff), but the car has to be stock. Another example:

82-84

The COTM nomination can only be an 82-84 early thirdgen, stock or modified.

Track Car

The COTM nomination must be a track car (drag or road course).

Work-in-Progress

The nominated car must be a heap that is a work in progress (they don't all have to be perfect to be car of the month).

We can go on forever with classes... Firebirds, Formulas, WS6, IROC-Zs, Two Tone Paint, Slammed, Interior Stock, Interior Modified, Stock Engine Bays, Modified Engine Bays, Special Edition Cars (Pace Cars, 1LEs, Firehawks, B4Cs, R7Us, TTAs, etc.), Stripes, Non-Striped IROCs, Aftermarket Rims, etc.

A theme would narrow the nomination process. Also allow people to nominate themselves, because that might encourage more members to throw their car into the mix. Also, we aren't all aware of what the other guy has.

 

ive used the prebent stainless lines from finelines. they were pretty good, fitting and length were all correct, but a couple bends needed a little tweaking. Other than that, i would use them again.

 

You can't nominate yourself. If the COTM is mainly posted on the Appearance board, only those that frequent that board will get nominated. We have quite a few forums on TGO and some people only frequent certain forums. Myself, I'm very active on the History/Restoration board, but I visit and view the Body, Interior, and appearance board without really contributing much.

 

I agree with 86TA. I've used Finelines on other projects and they are ok. Because of the safety factor, do get stainless if they offer them for your car. The $100,000 1969 restored Yenkos all have them and its accepted by all the judges.

The tinted color is a rust inhibitor as has been mentioned and was applied by the subcontractor who supplied the lines to GM. If you look closely, you may see that the termination fittings have a different color tint then the lines themselves.

Although I'am all for original, reproducing the original tint is gonna be a PITA. Save youself lots of time and headaches and go with the stainless.

 

I can take some blame. My initial request was for this to be kept (where it formed) in the Appearance and Detailing forum as that is the forum where people tend to go to post pictures of their ride or view others. The idea was to then have a global announcement (displayed in all the forums) to direct to the thread in the Appearance and Detailing forum so that it had exposure. This didn't happen because I didn't receive the plan/structure that I requested for this project, and therefore, I can't fully support it as this time.

As I recently stated here in the History/Restoration forum, my concerns are that the cars being nominated were modified Camaros. There was only 1 Firebird in January's nominations. Additionally, nearly all of the cars nominated were modified in some sort of way (atleast wheels). February's nominations then started and the trend was appearing to reoccur.

But this isn't just a nomination issue. Like I also previously stated, due to the audience, I think it's just going to be the trend where a modified Camaro would win against a stock Firebird or Camaro. Like I said, you take a stock I4 Firebird and a modified Camaro and I suspect the modified Camaro will win nearly every time. This is why the nominations and voting have flaws.

Even though I supported the idea, I had asked for some plan and structure be presented to me so that we could discuss and avoid some of this. I also had doubts about voting, due to the above where a theme would likely be favored and frequently win.

At this time, I can't fully support the project and was close to stopping it because it has issues and because the process took off without everyone on board and without a plan/structure presented so that we could avoid some of these concerns. I don't believe it can work as-is for the simple fact that the majority will always win, and that appears to favor modified Camaros. I've been waiting to hear back from 1meanz, who was the one I addressed (and PM'ed) over this topic last month, and we had some agreement over the concerns.

 

If you are looking for nice looking lines we have stainless lines available on our site. We believe they are the highest quality lines available and they are CNC bent to factory specs. The stainless lines have a very nice "polished" finish and look great. We have regular steel lines as well but they have the normal finish.

 

I think that some of the classes that you have listed here are some great ideas that hopefully in the near future can be put to use if the COTM system can be utilized. The system as set up now is for ease since I have dedicated myself to try this out and see what can be made with this. With mod and site support more can be done.

Thank you for that great input though! I REALLY appriciate it!

The Janurary COTM threads I created was something I started on my own before I knew that there was even consideration from the admins to help improve the system, and or process or creating a COTM. The system I created and used last month, and beginning this month was intended to be a test bed type setup to see if there was actually interest in a COTM (which appears there is). The way I set it up was to keep it as simple as possible since there would be no help from mods, or admins to help organize the system... again this was created before any contact from 1meanz was made to me in attempt to improve the system. The way I have the system setup it is souly based on user input on what they like and would believe is their favorite car. It is a very easy system that requires no special moderation other than counting and creating threads, and a little copy and paste of pictures. This is why the system was created as is right now. I sent PM's (apperance mods) asking for help before the threads were made, and after find that I was shortly turned away, and no site support or help would be given the plans had to be changed to work with no site help. The system as set up ensures that we have no self serving nominations, and winner is picked from a group of peers. I feel that having a group decide the outcome of the winner is more of an honor than to just pick a winner.

I was very disappointed that only a few firebirds were nominated, and only one received enough nominations to be included in the voting... but I have to believe this is the way the world spins here guys. The camaros have always been more popular in all generations (sales), and since there is more of them to have pasionate owners and and be modified this will probably remain true forever. The idea of adding various classes to the COTM is great and I fully support it, but someone is going to need the power to say... "Your car is NOT stock! You cannot participate cause your car is not enough of a racecar"... This requires mod power. Now we need to set up specific rules and guidlines for each class to ensure every member new or old understands to save the embaressment of being declined from participation.

As for nominations and voting "flaws" for cars that maybe off the beaten path of popularity... I'm sorry I don't think that a clean, modified camaro beating a original low mileage I4 firebird is a "flaw". This is how the general population of car enthusiast work. More go fast, handling, interior re-finements, etc will win over everytime with the exception of small groups of collectors. On some of the other sites I frequent there is a lot or new interest coming back to third gens birds/camaros alike. People are remembering how cool they looked and how well they handled, and envision how cool these cars could be with newer technology. The goal of the COTM is to showcase your sites best vehicles, and hopefully having a single place to find the best cars of the site will give inspiration to new members or people interested in restoring/restomodding/daily driving a third gen.

I have been in talks with Jeremy 1meanz for a month and with the holiday season we have not come very far with making a further structure of the system. I have emails to return from him this morning, so onward we go I had hoped my introducing it to some history/restoration fans that we could maybe get some further nominations for incredible stock/near stocks cars to "test" the waters further with the exsisting system.

Thanks for looking at it this and giving me some personal feedback on the system JT.

 

This is what I'm looking for here! I have a semi restoration project in the shop that will be needing lines, and I want the polished look to complete my theme on my car. Are these listed on your site? I haven't been on since the MAF tube you helped me & my customer with a few months back.

 

Yes, the stainless brake lines are available on our site. We can get stainless TPI fuel lines too but we don't have them on our site. We just haven't listed them yet because we are working with our supplier to do something a little different for us. The fuel lines should be listed soon but we can get them for you now.

 

I think the problem is we don't have a General Thirdgen Discussion forum, but I know that's been explored and put to rest in the past. Car of the month is right up that alley... General Thirdgen Discussions.

And the best "Car of the Month" I've seen is done at 67-72 Chevy Trucks.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/f...splay.php?f=43

 

There would be some in this section that would probably argue with your comment on that topic. We're all entitled to our opinions, but that comment does appear to support the concerns that I have.

I consider it a flaw in this example because, as I told 1meanz (Jeremy), a modified ThirdGen Camaro does not fully represent the best cars on ThirdGen.org. It's fine for a modified Camaro to win a round of COTM. That's not the issue. The issue is that I believe this project should showcase the best ThirdGens and not be limited to modified Camaros as the trend would appear to be. January's nominations were clearly favored toward that, and even February's is showing the same trend.

Members in this section, for example, would tend to favor a stock/clean/low mileage ThirdGen. To them, that is the best vehicle. Unfortunately, I don't believe they make up the majority of the audience at this time, and therefore, they will tend to lose to modified cars.

Additionally, it's going to get old whenever the winner is going to be a modified Camaro. If modified Camaros are going to be put up against stock/clean/low mileage Camaros or Firebirds, this is likely going to be the outcome.

Like I previously said, I understand that the numbers appear to favor this trend and that the majority of those who voted will make the winner. But I was not exactly favoring a popularity contest. It will not allow others the ability to be showcased that also represent (in a positive manner) the ThirdGen cars - such as a stock/clean/low mileage ThirdGen.

Understand that, while I'm disappointed that we're not all on board and things have not been completely figured out before running with the project, I'm simply being critical for the best of the community to ensure we allow "best vehicles" to be showcased and their opportunity for spotlight. If the current trend continues, I'm not sure I'll be able to support the project and it may not continue as-is because it won't allow other ThirdGens (Firebirds, stock/clean/low mileage ThirdGens) the opportunity to be showcased that can also be considered "best vehicles".

We have members who appreciate stock/clean/low mileage ThirdGens in addition to members who appreciate modified ThirdGens. I think it's fair to try and accommodate both. The COTM, through popularity contests, will tend to accommodate one side and that appears to be the trend so far.

 

I understand the concept and the "people's choice" award. I was recently at a show that didn't classify thirdgens into groups. All thirdgens were in the thirdgen group. My car was the cleanest car in that category, but I came in 3rd place. The car that won was a highly modified car with paint a mile deep and a custom dash with a rollbar and rear tub. The car was not perfect and actually needed to be vacuumed on the inside, but the crowd selected that car as the winner. It's that kind of judging that I prefer. I win my class of original unrestored all the time because of a lack of competition or because I am super **** in my detailing. After awhile, you don't appreciate the awards. I cherish the 1st place trophies that are from a people's choice. If I don't win, then I figure that the people were interested in the modified car more so than an original car. Different shows produce different results.

 

I think it may be better for the site to promote the nice ThirdGens within the community, and not exactly a popularity contest that will tend to favor the same theme. Unless different categories was implemented to guide the variety that is needed (e.g., more Firebirds, some stock/clean/low mileage ThirdGen).

 

JT - I get it. I feel like the conversation has made me out as a hater or of restored, or original, and that is far from the case. I read back and maybe I do have my modified "blinders" on in a sense. I work with restoring classic's and repairing the daily drivers everyday, and when it came ot my car I wanted to break out of the daily grind routine of numbers matching, paint marks, and factory correct hose clamps. I have a huge respect for a "restored" un-modified thirdgen, and that is why I started this thread here was to hopefully get some more intrest from the members who prefer that original style.

My feeling towards the honor of winning is similar to Scottmoyers as when the "crowd" of enthusiast have chosen my car as a winner it has meant way more to me. I have a pile of Super Chevy Show plaques where my car was nit picked and won out of a group of similars cars, but the show where my "old" Camaro won a 2nd place award out of 158, 1980 - 2004 any class of show car, in a people's choice setting... that was a proud day. My goal with my threads was to hopefully give someone else that satisfaction of being selected by "your peers" as a winner. Again I get the popularity contest feeling my way of trying the COTM could have instilled.

Jeremy and I traded emails yesterday and you will have you information soon enough on the new COTM selections. If you feel the need to lock up the COTM thread to stop any further confusion I totally understand, since it is site un-supported.

 

Wow, I guess I need to venture out to other forums more....I didn't even know about the COTM. Am I the only one?

 

No your not.

 

All,
I'm not against having the stock cars featured and I'm not against having modified cars featured. I hope everyone understands that my comments were made to show that I understand "people's choice". I'm ok with it. Would I like to see original, stock cars added, sure. But if this is going to be based on nominations, the stock cars probably won't get much attention. As I look at some of the cars I see in the January COTM thread, I think, "WOW". There are some nice looking cars there. All I'm saying is that if my car was put next to ramair21's, most people would choose his over mine, because of the time, effort and finished product.

I'm not against modified cars when done correctly, so I hope nobody thinks I am. I am against the super oversized rims (20+"), the cheap body kits and the obnoxious paint colors all combined that we see on eBay from time to time. I am against the "cheap" repairs, roller/spray can paint and complete hack jobs to the engine, body and interior. I actually respect the cars that I see being posted in the COTM, because there is a lot of work getting those cars looking that way and proper workmanship created the piece of art they drive. Awesome work guys, the cars look great.

 

Scott,

To make it clear myself, I'm not against featuring modified Camaros either. I'm just concerned if that is going to be the same theme.

Like I said, I was more for showcasing the best ThirdGens to get them, and ThirdGens, more positive exposure that may not been noticed in the community rather than a contest. I think Firebirds, as well as mint/low mileage/stock ThirdGens, also deserve to be featured as well. Unfortunately, the popularity contest won't exactly allow that and that's my concern that one side will tend to be showcased over the other despite the site should support both as "best" cars.

I simply believe that it's important and fair to showcase both types of cars (mint/low mileage/stock ThirdGens and modified ThirdGens as well as Firebirds and Camaros) as this is the site dedicated to the Third Generation F-Bodies. It shouldn't be one side.

 

Way to much brain power has not even made this enjoyable!

I respect all: Stock Vs Mod. We are all here for a reason! 3Rd's!

VOTE NOW!