Z28Disaster

I recently found and bought back my 1983 Z28 5.0 H.O. I origially bought this car back in 1996 from the original owner. It was complete in real good shape. I drove it for a couple years......got a ton of tickets from driving like a retard(like we all do at 19-20) and wound up painting and selling it to get myself out of trouble. It always bothered me i never got to finish or drive it all painted up and pretty.

Now that i have it back(16 years later), its in pretty rough shape. However the car is all there and its not hacked up to hell. I am a body man by trade, so part of me wants to restore it, the other part wants to toss in an LS1 and a 6 speed and paint it red(car is originally tan w/ gold). I have the LS1 and 6 speed and itd real tempting.

From what i read, there were only 600-700 of theses made in '83. Do you guys think its worth putting back to original or restomod it?

Van Nuys born

From your discription I'd put in the LS1 and 6 speed you already have. Bringing it back to stock would probably cost alot more money and time.

Now if it had low miles and was in super nice original shape... It would be hard to not leave it stock. Doing mods is more fun too IMO. This all depends on your states smog laws.

Z28Disaster

Its got around 89,000 miles on it. The original paint and stripes were ugly. I really want to restomod it. Just wanted to hear from other 3rd gen enthusiasts what their opinions were

8t2 z-chev

myself,id do a mild restomod:do a few authentic upgrades,correct some of the factory mistakes GM made with these cars,but keep it real and period with a carbed SBC.LS1 is better,but IMO SBC is cooler-looks and sounds more authentic in a thirdgen-especially an early third

90camaro355rs

Keep it original to a point like 8t2 z-chev said

Eric-86sc

iTrader: (18)

I think a stockish resto (sleeper looking motor, original avaliable 83 colors) would be a cooler build, or an ls 6 speed like everyone else has is cool too. If you do decide to put an ls motor in the car, at least keep the interior and exterior relatively stock looking. Cars that have modern drivetrains and suspension upgrades that look stock from a glance are more unique. It would set you apart from everyone else's vette wheels, ls motor, 4th gen interior cars.( btw, not knocking anyone's car with this post, there are some great looking cars that have been completely modernized. I just like things that are different.)

Z28Disaster

Thanks for the feed back everyone. The last 11 years i have had my head burried in 4th gens and LS1 engines. I am excited to be have another 3rd gen. Having my z28 back makes me realize how much i missed these cars.

I feel keeping the interior and exterior stock appearing with a set of 16" IROC rims would look nice. The LS1 i've got has LS6 heads and a pretty rowdy cam. I'd love to make my Z a well handling and streetable driver.

eseibel67

Lots of good advice here. But this is an easy one. Remove the stock L69 and tranny and hide them somewhere dry, just in case - on some distant date.

I'm all about original cars, old or new. But your situation calls for that LS1/T56. A stock 83 Z28 looks great and sounds great, but just doesn't have the power it deserves.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

I would find a LG4 car to put that LS1 into. As you said, the L69 H.O cars from 83 are rare.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Pretty sure they built quite a bit more than 800.....3,223 from what I've read...

You could keep the HO theme if you want, but resto-mod all the way.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Pretty much what I've done....I have my composite hood, engine, ECM and harness...trans...pretty much everything stashed away..

Z28Disaster

Confuzed your z is really nice. Where did you get your seats and door trim panels?

SolarGoldRaptor

They built 662 HO Trans Am in 1983, I guess that's where the confusion comes

Harvey Mushman

I think it's great that you got YOUR car back. Many of us have tried and failed. Lots of great advice here. Keep the original running gear someplace safe. You'll have it if you need it. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time imagining our cars being worth what the original bib block & hemi cars are bringing these days. I really like the resto mod cars. Modern running gear with vintage style. BTW some photos would be greatly appreciated.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

I would love to see some pics of the car if you can post them up.

I have a soft spot for L69s since I had one when I was 18. It was a great car and I have great memories of it. Unfortunately it was a midwest car that was used year 'roud and had rust everywhere -- at just 5 years old. That said -- it's your car and you can do as you please. I'm not sure I would consider it rare, but you don't see many nice L69s running around. If everything is still there as you say, I'll agree with others and say save everything so you can put it back to stock if you ever decide to restomod it. At the end of the day, it's your car. For sake of others who may way to restore an L69, save the parts. This, coming from a guy saving a CFI.

Z28Disaster

3200+ cars made isn't exactly rare imo. And most likely these cars will never be worth what some older musce cars are.

I will post up pics of what my z looked like when i sold it years back and how it looks now. Also i will post a build thread as soon as i get started. Right now it just feels good to have my first car back in my possesion. Its not pretty by no means. The kid i sold it to apparently hit a guard rail and its got a berlinetta front bumper on it. The interior is there but needs to be gone through. It hasn't run in 4 years. I now remember the t5 i put in it was from a 1988 formula. The rear was rebuilt by the previous owner and has moser axles and a auburn posi.....all which only have around 5k miles on them. The dash pad i put in it was out of a 1990 z....is still not cracked and in great shape.

eseibel67

Then it's settled. Fix up the car and put the modern drive train in it. Eventually that axle will give out, but you can buy a good one when that happens.

Make sure you also put some bigger discs up front. Confidence in stopping makes the whole high powered engine experience that much better.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

^^^This^^^

I really like those cars; have one myself; but it simply doesn't have the kind of value to make a "restoration" anywhere near worthwhile. There's just not that kind of interest in these cars (or really, any, from about 73 up). And, while their performance was untouchable in their day, that day didn't last very long; nowadays a Kia minivan will outrun one. Times have changed.

If it was mine, and needed a motor, I would NOT HESITATE to put a LSx in it.

:barf: :hurl: :blowchunks: uke:That would probably be the first thing I'd fix about it; even before getting it running. I believe I'd drive it around without a bumper cover at all, rather than .... that.

Brakes are a good point... that's another area where these cars, or any others of their age, are notably deficient by modern standards.

David M

Hmmm, tough one here. I too have a soft spot for the L69 cars. I like the idea of keeping the drivetrain... just in case. So with that said drop the LS1 in with a T56 and repaint it the original color along with the gold gfx, and put the stripes back on. I'd even go as far as to put the 5.0 Liter H.O. engine call outs on the gfx and the rear cover. Stock appearing '83 H.O. car with an LS1. Can you say sleeper?

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

L69 were kinda okay in their day however as the old saying goe, like the dinosaur they had their time. By 85 they were already obsolete and being beaten by others.

I say keep the 83 looks but give it a modern heart.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks....All the interior panels I bought off a guy here on the boards. Seats were bought on fleabay...

Van Nuys born

This is one area that is really cool about these cars.... there are so many ways you can go with them. Stock, Hot Rod, or a Canyon carver / track car... etc.

And they are affordable... cheap even. Will they climb in value ? I think they have some room to go up, and one of the reasons is the first line of this thread.
" I recently found and bought back my 1983 Z28 5.0 H.O." And if you have noticed this isn't the only individual who has done this here recently.
My point being, alot of people grew up with these cars, had them in high school and remember them, so there is a following.

They may not have the HP but look at some of the stuff they did come with... A/C, etc ... you can drive these cars.

TVIROCZ

iTrader: (1)

With my iroc I was confused on what to do with it. One day I had a talk with my brother and he said you don't really see third gens anymore and if you do it's "wow, when was the last time you saw that?" When I brought my iroc to the car show that's the reaction I got from people. I Got more comments then my friend and brother and they both have nice newer mustangs. I like to having a piece of history. My car is not 100% stock. What I would like to do is keep the car with the stock look and drop a ls1 into it, change the suspension, etc.

Zeifer

My vote is keep the L69 and do all you can while keeping it stock appearance.

Here's some food for thought.



I'll take that T-56 off your hands, too. I've been looking for one.

SolarGoldRaptor

3rd Gens are definitely getting more and more interest. I've been looking at ads on eBay and craigslist and they sell at a much higher price than they did five years ago. It would be a sad day for car enthusiasts if we only cared about cars that are worth more than a restoration cost.

It's not really fair to compare them to the 67-73 cars as that was an exceptional era for cars anywhere in the world. It was the time when they started getting really impressive HP figures and they had a near absolute freedom to design their cars.

I'd say any original L69 5 speed 3rd Gen is worth a restoration, unless the body i rusted out. They may not be the fastest but they're fun to drive, and not everyone cares about racing.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Not that I disagree the Thirdgens are getting rarer…but every since the failed "Cash for Clunkers" program, the average price for all used vehicles has gone up….

I'm sure any "concours" restored vehicle will be worth top dollar, as in the example above that Zeifer posted. Probably way less than 1% of 3rd Gen owners owns a car anywhere near that standard.

Most all people that do a concours restoration do it because they love the car…or for sentimental value like this post is about.

...But don't think for a second theres a lot of profit left (if any) after you've spent 30 grand getting the car up to a true concours standard. And 30 grand would be on the cheap side...

Way too rich for my blood…I can only afford to keep around cars I can drive.

If you really want to save a lot of cash, buy one that someone else reputable restored.

Zeifer

I think if he were to do the LS1 + T56 it should be in some abused '86+ third gen. I believe they're a lot more common than the 82-84's.

Z28Disaster

I am on the fence with this car. Its all there but needs a complete frame off resto. Its something i can do myself. My first step is to get it running and driving. Maybe after i drive it i can decide. These cars are so friggin slow. Back in 1996 i ran 14.9 @ 92 mph in this car. It felt slow then.

Zeifer

One can do a lot of motor work while keeping it factory appearance. Port/polish, larger valves, shaved head, whole new bottom end, bored cylinders, bigger carb, ported intake, cam.

Z28Disaster

Even with all that it won t be faster than a heads/cam LS1. Then again going fast is not what i am tryin to do with this car. Once its running and i drive it I will decide which route i am going

Linson

how much would you sell that LS1 & T56 for? how many miles on them?

Linson

I've seen these insurance valuations before, and they are way out of step with reality. that, or they have nothing to do with what a buyer would actually pay for a given car or what a seller should reasonably expect a car to sell for. I think I saw one of these that had my TTA worth around 40 G's.

Z28Disaster

The set up is in my 99 trans am for now. I threw it in for OCMD car cruise weekend. My 404" LS 2 hurt the thrust bearing.....so mid summer its going back in along with my other built t56. For now i am gonna keep it...but you have first dibs

nosajwols

iTrader: (1)

If you don't intend to "race" it I would be inclined to keep the original drivetrain. My logic, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

That l69 restored you can drive it on the edge, push it hard and be rewarded by your skill. The lsx not so much.

You just have to get beyond minivans kicking your ***...

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

I can totally relate to the OP's feelings about his car. I still say keep it stock. These cars are getting very hard to find not all cut up from years of modifications. The only 3rd generation cars I ever see around here are 91-92 RS cars that are beat to hell. I want more power so bad I can taste it. But I can't bring myself to screw with my car. It only has 31,000 miles on it but 215 horsepower is nothing these days. My wife's new escape will give my IROC a run for its money And its a 4 banger. I wish I had more garage space. I am seriously thinking about a new Corvette. But being the type of person who can't leave any of his cars outside, I would have to sell the camaro. I may have to break my rule and leave the civic in the driveway. To the OP, leave the L69 stock and modify an LG4 car!

Z28Disaster

And more power also means the rear and drive shaft will break.....so upgrading makes cost soar. Besides if i wanna go fast I'll jump in my m6 4th gen.

Z28Disaster

31,000 miles I'd leave it alone too. Sounds like you did the right thing

okfoz

For one thing, we forget that those "Muscle Cars" from the 1960's, very few, I mean very few were the 12 & 13 second monsters that we believe they were. In all honesty a 15 second car was screaming fast in the 1960's. By the time 1985 came around, there is an article that literally states that the TPI Camaro was the fastest car they EVER tested... On top of that most of the "Rare old cars" you see at car shows which are bragged up as being street racing bests were modified to be that way and by no means factory.

My thought is, convert that thing over to the LS1, keep the car stock looking as possible inside and out, put the factory stripes on it, the 16" IROC wheels will make a big difference in appearance, but keep it period correct, Get yourself sway bars, springs and wonder-bar from an 86+ WS6 Firebird or 90+ FE2 Camaro. Get some big 12" brakes from Baer or your company of choice, hawks has some kits too IIRC. and go from there...

John

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

How true...

Motor Trend 1966.
1966 Chevy II 275HP 327 Power Glide with 3.08's.
16.4 @ 85.87 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1970
1970 Nova 300HP 350 TH350 3.07's
16.5 @ 85.0 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1971.
1971 Nova 245HP 350 TH350 with 2.56's
17.20 @ 81.89 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Hot Rod Magazine 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4Speed M20 with 3.55's.
14.85 @ 95.65 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4 speed M20 with 3.55's.
15.8 @ 89.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1970.
1970 Camaro 300 HP 350 TH350 with 3.07's.
16.6 @ 86.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1972.
1972 Camaro 165 HP 350 TH350 with 2.73's.
18.5 @ 79 MPH
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1967.
1967 Corvette 300HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.0 @ 86.5 MPH.
-----------------------------------------------
Car Life 1968.
1968 Chevelle 275HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.8 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1971.
1971 Chevelle 270 HP 350 TH350 with 3.31's
16.9 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------

The L69/5-spd/3.73 cars were pretty much 15 seconds flat, take it to the bank.

Of course, nowadays a Kia minivan is 14 seconds flat; kinda takes all the honor out of 15 flat.

Ever seen a second at the drag strip? ..... at 15 seconds, the car should be doing something in the range of 90 mph. 1 second at 90 MPH is about 140 feet. That's like 7 car lengths. Looks like one car isn't even racing at all, it's that bad.

Whaddya think NOW???

90 GTA Black

I vote to keep it stock. Just stay away from the drag strip. The cars weren't engineered to have LS power so you would be looking at doing a lot more than just an engine swap. Stick to hidden internal engine mods. No, it still won't be as fast as an LS motor. Buy a cheap second one if you must have a racer.

As for value, muscle cars didn't hit their peak until those that had them in High School (or wanted one) hit their 50's. Most people in that age bracket no longer care about racing. They just want to cruise or go to the show and shine with their car. I see an upward trend in value that will peak in about 15 - 20 years.

Rarity - yes, they made over 3000 of them but how many are left is the big question. Of those, how many have their original engine and components.
I suspect an original 83 HO car in mint condition would be a show stopper.

Having said all that, I have my first car - a 75 Trans Am that all I have done since day one is modify it. It now needs body and paint work and a general restoration but I'm going to make it a Day 2 car. It's what comes after you get tired of seeing restored Day 1 cars and is more the way I always wanted the car.

The_Wraith

Oh rly?

I should also add that some of these cars like the Buick GS stage 1 have been known to tick off a 12.9

1 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69
5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67
12 1970 Plymouth Superbird 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?
14 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
15 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
16 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
17 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
20 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
22 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
23 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
24 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
25 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
26 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
27 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
28 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
29 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
31 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
32 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
33 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
36 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
37 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
38 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
39 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
43 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
44 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
45 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
46 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
48 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
49 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70

I guess they never tested any L69 thirdgens? which were faster then LB9 cars. Whoever wrote the article you quoted didn't drive to many cars.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Well i would say a restoration on this car would be worthwile.And i think there is obvious intererst in them. in the next 10yrs you will definitely see some restored ones with nice pricetags on em. 20 yrs ago i iculd buy fair 68 camaros for 6k. go try and find one for that price now sofakingdom

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Everything from the dual snorkel air cleaner to the 373 gear under it made it a very desirable car and it took a 5.7L to outrun it. One of the best camaros ever built in my opinion and i havent saw one in yrs. Ive personally saw them turn 14.7 in bone stock trim. i wouldnt think twice about restoring it. Great car!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What does the price of 68 Camaros have to do with 83 Camaros?

NOTHING.

These cars, or for that matter ANY cars made since around 1973, will NEVER have the kind value that 60s muscle cars have. The culture around cars changed at that moment (Arab oil embargo... I take it you're too young to have been there at the time) and will NEVER EVER go back to the way it was. Doesn't matter how much we here like em; fact is, cars lost their glamorous place in popular culture in that event, and it's GONE forever.

Anybody that hallucinates that just because our cars are "old" that people are going to suddenly start flocking to pay giga$$$$ for them the way they do for 60s cars, needs to put down the pipe and back away from it.

It's a terrible shame; these cars are VASTLY superior in EVERY way to most 60s ones (brakes, looks, handling, options, reliability, comfort, you name it); but that doesn't change the basic fact that they simply never did, do not now, and never will, occupy the same cultural pedestal as those 60s cars did then and still do to this day, where they evoke the feel of a different era. Just ain't happenin.

rusty vango

anybody can "mod" a car. but ask yourself this,,how many "correct" ones have you seen??? and how many modded ones have you encountered?? do you want a cookie cutter ls1 car?or one that stands out because you DIDNT ls1 it?

Harvey Mushman

I'll respectfully disagree. A value of any item is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it. Having grown up in the 80's all of my friends were into cars. A few Z28's, TA,s Mustang's (NICE SVO) and a few turbo Shelby Daytona & Chargers. We're all older now with kids and families. Some are doing well enough that they have some money sitting around and would jump at the chance of re-uniting with the cars they grew up with. Will "our" cars be worth what the original muscle & pony cars are bringing? Not likely. But, could the teenagers of the 60 & 70's have imagine the cars they used and abused bring the money they are now? That's almost as unlikely. Just my $.02

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

The_Wraith

To say thirdgens are more reliable and better looking then 60s and 70s muscle is a bit of a stretch.

graysmoke

If it were me I would restore it while you still can get the parts. If I could own the same car i enjoyed driving 16 yrs ago I would roll it back to original for good times sake. The only thing I would mod is the engine/drive train(maybe 383 stroker) to a driveable ~400hp but still keeping the stock HO apprearance under the hood.

kmcn47

there wasa thread like this before, and i argued to stay stock because. well not alot of nice stock 82-84 camaros around. but honestly putting it back to stock would be costly and possibly impossible. alot of parts (mostly unnecessary things) aren't even made anymore so id say make it look like brand new showroom stock. swap in that lsx