Haven't seen one.... - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

History / Originality Got a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!

Haven't seen one....

Old 03-11-2019, 04:48 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 33
Haven't seen one....

I've been in and out of the thirdgen scene for a while. Just sold a 85 trans am and am trying to get into a 91-92 Z28. Today I came across the following stuffed in a speed shop barn that had been taken in on trade and have the opportunity to buy it:

1991 Camaro Z28
- red w/black heritage stripes (would those be aftermarket since a 91?)
- 5 speed transmission
- TPI engine (assuming a 305 due to the 5 speed?)
- Hardtop
- 115k miles
- Interior/exterior in good shape

The car is only starting right now when spraying starting fluid into the engine. Assuming fuel pump? But what are your opinions on this car? Due to it's storage situation, I couldn't get the RPO codes today and forgot to get the VIN cause I was a bit involved in the starting issue. Can you vet's here give me a synopsis of what you think the car is and what it's worth?
redvtwin2 is offline  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:50 PM
  #2  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 1,256
Car: 86 Trans Am WS6
Engine: 383 stroker
Transmission: Dynamic Racing Reverse Manual 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.77 currently, 12 bolt 3.73 soon
Re: Haven't seen one....

pics are necessary if you want anyone to guess the value of a car over the internet
TylerSteez is offline  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:56 PM
  #3  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 33
Re: Haven't seen one....

Fair enough. I'll try and get some tomorrow. Any idea if such a combo is rare? Would it be preferred to the usual l98 engine? I like the idea of a 5 speed, so am ok with the 305 - I have just never seen a 91-92 hardtop with a 5 speed. Thought it was kinda cool .
redvtwin2 is offline  
Old 03-11-2019, 08:09 PM
  #4  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ellston, Iowa
Posts: 300
Re: Haven't seen one....

Heritage stripes would be added on a 91. Probably not that rare, but who cares if you like and want the car. With 115,000 miles, it won’t be a collectors item, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be fun. Get some photos.
LeonardS is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 09:31 AM
  #5  
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,854
Car: '02 T/A WS6, '91 T/A, '91 Camaro RS
Engine: LS1, LB9, L03
Transmission: T56, 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 4.10 10 bolt, 2.73 10 bolts
Re: Haven't seen one....

You couldn't get t-tops with a 5 speed 91-92 Z28 from the factory, so it's not all that rare. Lots of people prefer a 5 speed over the L98/auto. Personally, I don't care for them as the 5 speeds were very weak, and generally can't stand up to the added torque of a 350, which is IMO a must-have upgrade on a 3rd gen if you can afford the swap. If you don't ever plan on doing a 350 swap, the 5 speed is fine. I also prefer t-tops, and since you can't get them or a 350 with a 5 speed on a 91-92 Z28, that's another deal breaker for me personally.

IIRC, you *can* get t-tops and a 5 speed on 91-92 Formulas with TPI, so that's something to consider if you like t-tops and the 5 speed on a non-base later car.
navy02ws6 is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 10:07 AM
  #6  
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North East GA
Posts: 1,836
Car: 1989 Firebird
Engine: 5.7 LS1
Transmission: T56
Re: Haven't seen one....

More than likely if its been sitting for a while: and it will crank on starter fluid and continue to run, but will not crank and run without it the fuel injectors will need to be replaced. They get sticky and will run decently once you get it running but will not squirt right on the start cycle. I have never been able to get ones in this state back. Also if its been sitting with fuel in the tank personally I would drop the tank, clean it, replace the pump and sock, replace the filter, fuel injectors and put new gas in it (ethanol free if you can find it).

Check the pump relay and make sure the contacts are not melted, its pretty common. There is also a wiring block beside the battery that gets corroded and cause under voltage to the fuel circuit (at least on firebirds)--

So i would negotiate based on the cost of new injectors
Aviator857 is online now  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:41 PM
  #7  
Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 277
Car: 1992 Z28 1991 RS
Engine: LB9 LO3
Transmission: 5 speeds
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by navy02ws6 View Post
You couldn't get t-tops with a 5 speed 91-92 Z28 from the factory, so it's not all that rare. Lots of people prefer a 5 speed over the L98/auto. Personally, I don't care for them as the 5 speeds were very weak, and generally can't stand up to the added torque of a 350, which is IMO a must-have upgrade on a 3rd gen if you can afford the swap. If you don't ever plan on doing a 350 swap, the 5 speed is fine. I also prefer t-tops, and since you can't get them or a 350 with a 5 speed on a 91-92 Z28, that's another deal breaker for me personally.

IIRC, you *can* get t-tops and a 5 speed on 91-92 Formulas with TPI, so that's something to consider if you like t-tops and the 5 speed on a non-base later car.
T tops were available from the factory with the LB9 5 speed combo in 91/92. I have a 92 Z28 with LB9 and 5 speed.
Ty92Z is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:43 PM
  #8  
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,854
Car: '02 T/A WS6, '91 T/A, '91 Camaro RS
Engine: LS1, LB9, L03
Transmission: T56, 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 4.10 10 bolt, 2.73 10 bolts
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by Ty92Z View Post
T tops were available from the factory with the LB9 5 speed combo in 91/92. I have a 92 Z28 with LB9 and 5 speed.
Guess the Camaro White Book is wrong then. Wouldn't be the first time...
navy02ws6 is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:59 PM
  #9  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (9)
 
1MeanZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: North Central Indiana
Posts: 2,868
Car: 2xIROC, GTA
Engine: 383, 305, 383
Transmission: TKO 600 / T5 / T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54, 3.08, 3.27
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by navy02ws6 View Post
. Lots of people prefer a 5 speed over the L98/auto. Personally, I don't care for them as the 5 speeds were very weak, and generally can't stand up to the added torque of a 350, which is IMO a must-have upgrade on a 3rd gen if you can afford the swap.
I really wish people would stop perpetuating this mis-information. 95% of the time T5s break when they are abused. I've had 4 heavily modded T5 cars, one with a 375hp 355 and another with a 400hp 350. I'VE NEVER BROKEN A T5. The 400hp car is still on it's original T5, not even rebuilt yet. Go out and abuse a T5 and it will break, just like a junk factory 700R4 will. The fact that anyone thinks a TPI 350 is so much more potent than a TPI 305 (in manual trans tune) is just silly.
1MeanZ is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 01:21 PM
  #10  
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,854
Car: '02 T/A WS6, '91 T/A, '91 Camaro RS
Engine: LS1, LB9, L03
Transmission: T56, 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 4.10 10 bolt, 2.73 10 bolts
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by 1MeanZ View Post
I really wish people would stop perpetuating this mis-information. 95% of the time T5s break when they are abused. I've had 4 heavily modded T5 cars, one with a 375hp 355 and another with a 400hp 350. I'VE NEVER BROKEN A T5. The 400hp car is still on it's original T5, not even rebuilt yet. Go out and abuse a T5 and it will break, just like a junk factory 700R4 will. The fact that anyone thinks a TPI 350 is so much more potent than a TPI 305 (in manual trans tune) is just silly.

I'm not saying that a 350 TPI is that much better than a 305 TPI, assuming they're both stock. Let's face it, they're both no-***** junk motors by today's standards. Driving them side by side, you're not going to notice much of a difference, if any at all. All I'm saying is that a 350 is a much better platform for adding performance parts than a 305, if someone wants to go that route. Personally I prefer cars that make more power than stock, but still look stock under the hood, which you can easily achieve with a built 350. While an LS swap is a much better upgrade in general, it's about impossible to do one and still make it look stock.

What was the real reason that they didn't allow 5 speed L98 cars again? Something to do with weight?
navy02ws6 is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 01:53 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 818
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by Ty92Z View Post
T tops were available from the factory with the LB9 5 speed combo in 91/92. I have a 92 Z28 with LB9 and 5 speed.
Does your 1992 with the T-Tops have the G92 3.42 gears or the standard 3.08 gears?
yo soy el warg is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:05 PM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 33
Re: Haven't seen one....

Thanks for the information guys. Helped a lot! Also, good amount of interesting reading. Aviator857 your information was particularly insightful. Thanks.
redvtwin2 is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:10 PM
  #13  
Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 277
Car: 1992 Z28 1991 RS
Engine: LB9 LO3
Transmission: 5 speeds
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by yo soy el warg View Post
Does your 1992 with the T-Tops have the G92 3.42 gears or the standard 3.08 gears?
It’s not a G92, standard 3.08.
Ty92Z is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:22 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 818
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by Ty92Z View Post
It’s not a G92, standard 3.08.
As I understood it you could only order the Z28 in 1991-92 with the CC1 T-tops if you didn't order the G92. This was because you got the added weight of the duel-converter exhaust with the G92 package which added extra weight to the car so you couldn't order the T-tops too. This might be incorrect, but that's how I understood it. Does anyone have a G92 package on a 1991-92 Z28 with T-Tops?

Last edited by yo soy el warg; 03-12-2019 at 02:26 PM.
yo soy el warg is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 02:27 PM
  #15  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (9)
 
1MeanZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: North Central Indiana
Posts: 2,868
Car: 2xIROC, GTA
Engine: 383, 305, 383
Transmission: TKO 600 / T5 / T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54, 3.08, 3.27
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by navy02ws6 View Post
I'm not saying that a 350 TPI is that much better than a 305 TPI, assuming they're both stock. Let's face it, they're both no-***** junk motors by today's standards. Driving them side by side, you're not going to notice much of a difference, if any at all. All I'm saying is that a 350 is a much better platform for adding performance parts than a 305, if someone wants to go that route. Personally I prefer cars that make more power than stock, but still look stock under the hood, which you can easily achieve with a built 350. While an LS swap is a much better upgrade in general, it's about impossible to do one and still make it look stock.

What was the real reason that they didn't allow 5 speed L98 cars again? Something to do with weight?
I agree with everything you just said 100%. I just think people think the T5 is weaker than it really is. I'm not saying it's the best trans out there, but I do think it's a great trans if you're at or below 400hp and you're on street tires. It is a light weight very good shifting manual transmission, and for a street car I think it's a great option. The L98 DID exceed the torque rating of the T5 as issued by Borg Warner, but there are various duty cycle and safety factor variables to account for there. So while it's partially true that a 350 made too much power, that doesn't mean that it's going to break the first time you pop the clutch. I've heard rumors also that GM chose not to pursue emissions certification of the L98/T5 combination, but I don't have data to back that up.
1MeanZ is offline  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:46 AM
  #16  
Supreme Member
 
dmccain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: South Ms
Posts: 2,763
Car: 89 Pontiac
Engine: 5.0 FI
Transmission: 700R4. Shift kit+S10 TC
Axle/Gears: 3.73s Posi
Re: Haven't seen one....

Id take a 5spd/ 305 TPI over an auto L98 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
dmccain is offline  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:32 AM
  #17  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ellston, Iowa
Posts: 300
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by dmccain View Post
Id take a 5spd/ 305 TPI over an auto L98 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I bet you wouldn’t be saying that if the L98 had been available with a stick. What you should say is, I would take a 5 speed over an auto every day of the week. Any car guy would always take a 350 over the puny 305 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The extra 45 cubic inches make the 350 the winner.
LeonardS is offline  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:40 AM
  #18  
Supreme Member
 
dmccain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: South Ms
Posts: 2,763
Car: 89 Pontiac
Engine: 5.0 FI
Transmission: 700R4. Shift kit+S10 TC
Axle/Gears: 3.73s Posi
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by LeonardS View Post


I bet you wouldn’t be saying that if the L98 had been available with a stick. What you should say is, I would take a 5 speed over an auto every day of the week. Any car guy would always take a 350 over the puny 305 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The extra 45 cubic inches make the 350 the winner.
No doubt I do agree.. That's why ive swapped almost every 305 ive ever had out with a 350 and about to do another. But.. stock for stock id take the 5spd 305 TPI over the 350/auto for the fun factor, not because I think its faster or better

Last edited by dmccain; 03-14-2019 at 08:01 AM. Reason: spelling
dmccain is offline  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:46 AM
  #19  
Supreme Member
 
dmccain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: South Ms
Posts: 2,763
Car: 89 Pontiac
Engine: 5.0 FI
Transmission: 700R4. Shift kit+S10 TC
Axle/Gears: 3.73s Posi
Re: Haven't seen one....

Originally Posted by LeonardS View Post


I bet you wouldn’t be saying that if the L98 had been available with a stick. What you should say is, I would take a 5 speed over an auto every day of the week. Any car guy would always take a 350 over the puny 305 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The extra 45 cubic inches make the 350 the winner.
They got it right in the 4th gens making a 350 the only V8 used and LSD being standard on those cars. They just got uglier that's all.

Last edited by dmccain; 03-14-2019 at 07:56 AM.
dmccain is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Bazookajoe254
V6
12
11-08-2006 08:18 PM
robertfrank
Auto Detailing and Appearance
10
05-01-2006 04:16 PM
super_kev
Car Audio
7
01-09-2005 11:57 PM
91blackgta
DFI and ECM
1
05-28-2003 06:41 AM
BTS88IROC
DIY PROM
15
05-14-2001 11:38 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Haven't seen one....


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

Contact Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: