The high beam indicator isn't working on my 88 gta. And I need to fix it. I thought I should ask if anyone has some ideas or have seen it before before I start to pull things apart...

(Is the indicator light a LED or a bulb? btw)

Everything else is working on the cluster. But I do get a "beep" evey tme I flip the high/low beam switch. Also some text saying something about F-light. I think it believes one of the lights bulbs is broken. (Its not)

My first thought was to pull the cluster, but now I'm thinking that maybe it could be in the wiring harness or the realy, so the cluster not getting a signal? 🤔

 

Could be just a bulb, could be a broken trace on the cluster circuit board, or could be a bad connection to the corresponding pin on the cluster harness -- I had problems with one of the turn signal indicators on my '91 RS, ended up bending the corresponding contact on the harness to make better contact with the cluster pins, and haven't had the problem since.

It should be just a small standard replaceable bulb, not an LED.

 

Thanks for replying. It's greatly appreciated.

​​I'm.new to this car (brought it a few years agoe, it only has about 11000km on it so I'm trying not just do a hack jobb but fix it properly)

Seems like the reasonable thing to do is to start with removing the cluster. Check the indicator bulb and start from there.

I'm browsing every thread I can find on here that's about removing the cluster, but seems I'm geting problems others don't. How do I remove the top center display? Seems I can only pull it out about 5mm before the cable stops me. Do I need to remove the top soft.to get to the connector?

 

The High Beam bulb shares a ground with the turn signal indicators on the cluster, so if those work then the ground (wire and trace) is likely OK leaving the bulb or hot power to be the issue.

For me, I loosen the steering column bolts under the dash. This lowers the column slightly and gives more space to slide out the cluster.

 

There is no LED bulbs in digital cluster as far as i know,
i might be wrong, but i assume they had no leds back in the day when they made these cars.

My first advice would be is to leave it. Specially if the cause of the fault why the high beam indicator light does not work, if it is elsewhere, tho i assume that the bulb is blown and thats why it does not light up.
I've taken apart a digital dash enuff times to know that unless u really have to, is to leave it 😆 At times the digital dash plastic compoments can be quite brittle, they may crack or break if one is not real delicate and careful, but when it comes down to it, its no big deal to take out the cluster, but it can be really frustrating if u haven't done it before, its easier if u take the top dash pad part off, but its not needed, and if u take the steering wheel off, but its not necessary either, but makes the job easier. Theres few plastic parts that does need to come off, such as the headlight/fog light switches plastic bezel/the surrounding plate, and the plastic piece that has rear defroster switches, its one and same piece that has the openings where air comes thru above the trip/odometrer display.

The high beam bulb is the same kind of bulb that the hvac light/letterings has, its a smaller/thinner glass bulb than what the bulb is on the fender blinkers for example.

If u take the digital cluster out, my advice is to replace all the main bulbs with LED bulbs, no lousy quality, only high quality leds, they lasts for years and does not flicker.
And preferably the kind of leds anyways that work no matter which way they are installed, otherwise some bulbs might not light up unless they are put in the other way around,
i don't mean upside down, are they called polarity free bulbs? Anyways, good luck with the cluster, let me know if u need help with the cluster/bulbs.

Btw, u'll be happy if u go with leds, they are brighter, u can see the digital dash speedometer better in sunlight, and they don't heat up as regular glass bulbs, tho if u wanna stay with old school bulbs, thats ok too, not everyone likes LED bulbs. But pls at least change out the original ones with new ones, otherwise some other bulb in the future may go out and then u might be looking to take out the cluster again 😵‍💫 But its up to u what u wanna do, just take ur time with the dash, and don't yank or pull too much on the plastic pieces, or components, some might be as brittle as dried bread, these thirdgens got in certain places, quite brittle dash plastics these days since these cars ain't new anymore.

The display piece that says "PONTIAC system ok", that is quite tricky to take out since the rest of the cluster does not come out before the "system ok" component piece is out, there were a certain steps how i loosened it, if i recall,
i carefully pulled on the component once the two screws were out, five and and a half millimeter socket ought to fit, and got a long flathead screwdriver to reach behind the tabs/connector, that goes behind the component, once that is out, (when u put it back in, there is almost barely enuff the cable, so that u can reach in and press the connector on, on the "system ok display/component.)
​​​​​the rest of the cluster comes out just like an analog cluster, quite gently pulling out the cluster, but then the steering wheel can on the way and i need to tilt and fiddle the cluster in certain angle that i can get it out completely, same thing when putting it back, if the steering wheel is on, i need to try to get the cluster in, in certain angles, and at the same time, maybe pull up on the dash pad plastic a bit, otherwise the cluster might not clear all the way, and i'd much rather pull the dash plastic upwards and not try to shimmy in the possibly brittle and most certainly delicate digital cluster 😓

The beep sound that u are hearing, its the system ok display, it beeps and shows if the door or doors is ajar, or if the trunk is open, it also can beep if the fuel gets really low, or if coolant or washer fluid is low, as well as if turn signal or signals bulb is out, front or rear, or front or rear driving lights, there is also a button next to the display, and it checks all that if u press it but u probably knew that, im not trying to be a wise guy, just trying to help.

Sorry about the long post and ramble, i hope it helps with ur task.

 

I wrote a long reply but idk where it went 😆
Hows the situation with the cluster, have u started taking it out yet?

 

Sort of. I'm.kind of scared to apply the force needed. 👀. And it started to get dark... But al the screws are out, and I sort of think it should just come right out.

I wanted to remove the bezel first, but to do that I wold need to remove the centre display. And I can't get to that connector, so I'm going to try to pull the whole thing out as one unit.

 

Are u talking about the "pontiac system ok" display?
If it would come out, its no use afterwards because if i remember correct, it ought to be removed first, its quite difficult since the cable behind it is so short, but once its out,
(long flathead screwdriver might help when trying to get the connector off, but just be careful not to damage anything, it might be so that the connector behind the system ok display comes off by pressing the connector and then pulling it, but its tricky cuz the cable is so short, so the display box does not want to even come outwards much, so that one could reach the connector 😓 and even if u would get it out just by pulling it, how would u get the connector back on if u cant reach the connector?

The display that says "pontiac system ok", once its out, the rest of the cluster comes out just like analog cluster, by pulling it towards the steering wheel. I don't recall if the odometer display needs to be out too before the cluster comes out, i doubt it. Its some time ago since i've been taking a digital cluster out, so im not sure about in which steps it comes out or goes back in, but if i remeber correctly, the cluster doesn't want to come out if the system ok display box is still connected.

And once u put everything back, the system ok display box needs to be connected first, and then the rest of the cluster, and then the black bezel around it, if i remember the steps correctly. Once the system ok display and the cluster is out, u might be able to get some more lenght on the system ok cable, by untangling it a bit, its usually pinched behind the cluster a bit, but if u get it a bit longer by pulling it just a tad and untangling it, it makes the system ok display box slightly easier to connect afterwards, and remember to check that once it and the cluster is back, that the cable does not get too pinched behind the cluster, tho it should not matter too much, the cable is wrapped with extra electric tape, so it should not get damaged that easily.

If the dash pad and steering wheel are off, it makes the job a bit easier, but its not necessary, when pulling the cluster out or when putting it back, it comes out completely and then back in, in a certain angle, because if the steering wheel or dash pad are on the way.
Just remember to be very careful with the cluster and the plastics, they can be quite brittle, and when putting all the screws back, its best not to over tight them, the plastic may crack, quite easily, don't ask me how i know 😆

I recommend replacing the main bulbs with new ones, or with high quality LED bulbs, they are brighter and makes the speedometer and other displays, easier to see in sunlight. The main bulbs ought to be the same as side marker bulbs for example, tho the wattage might be lower on the dash bulbs, too many wattage bulb may discolor and damage the circuit boards due to heat, thats why LED bulbs are convinient, they don't usually get hot, just warm. Probably polarity free or what the term is, might be easiest to use, so u don't need to pull out the cluster again if some bulbs does not lit up, because some LED bulbs only lit up if the polarity is the certain way, tho its easy to just pull out the bulb and turn it and put it back if it does not lit up on the first try.

Let me know if u need more help with the cluster. Good luck.

 

The left side is lose. But something is definitely preventing me from.pulling it out on the right. From the way it bends when I pull, I would say its just between the "system ok" display and the battery indicator... 🤔 Any hidden screws or something like that I'm missing?

 

Alright, I have been reareding your reply. The cable to the system ok display don't come from the cluster, but from the car it self. So I do intact need to remove it first.... and I can't get to the da*n connector. 😩

Would it help any to remove the soft top? I'm thinking maybe I could free up some cable slack complicated?

 

It shouldn't come out just like that if i remember the steps correctly. If i remember, the system ok display ought to be out first, but its quite difficult since the cable behind it is so short, so its really tricky to try to reach to the connector on the back.

That black bezel around the cluster doesn't want to come out either since the system ok display box is still there, correct? Does that black bezel on the left, does that want to come out yet, that bezel that has the text unleaded fuel only, is it a separate bezel or one larger bezel that extends all the way to the right side corner all the way to the corner of the trip/odometer?

I have a loose cluster somewhere, i can look from it and check how stuff looked on a cluster that is out of the car.
Be patient with ur cluster, it won't come out by force.
If something does not want to come out, its best to take a break and think about it. By looking at the pic, i assume u got all the screws out, there is more screws under the black bezel tho on the left, but at this point it should not matter.

Give me a sec and i check from my extra cluster how it looks like.

 

Here's few pics of my extra cluster, if u need more pics of the cluster just let me know, maybe it can give a better picture of the whole cluster and how everything is in it. Its just funny becuz i've taken a digital cluster out many times, and now i can't seem to remember how it comes out of the car, but it shouldn't want to come out if the system ok display box has still the cable connected to it. I may have taken on mine, the buttons for the trip/odometer display out, and the glass screen display itself, to get to the connector behind the system ok box, and then taken the steps from there, to loosen the cluster, but the thing was that then there is its own steps how to put everything back together, but thats for later, then when its time to start to re-assemble. There might be a chance that u can get to the connector behind the system ok box, if the cluster would come out at least a tad that u could reach to the connector behind the cluster, but i think i may have taken out the odometer display and the buttons next to it, the odometer display itself should come out, but the circuit board for it still stays in place, the black bezel prevents the circuit board from taking out, and one can't take out the surrounding bezel if needed, becuz if the system ok display box is still in place, but its do-able, to take out the cluster, there is just its own steps how to take out the parts/cluster, otherwise its just impossible w/o breaking something. If u decide to take out the odometer display, i can assist by writing here how it comes out. There is a orange plastic card behind the black glass odometer screen, like behind other displays on the cluster.

 

Yupp, the bezel on the left is off. And the cluster is also free on the left. (Pulled gently, and could feel the connector disengage.)

Pulled some more on the right. And could feel the connector disconect there too. So it's just the system ok display cable that's holding me back right now.

Please do. (Maybe if you have the system ok display, take a pic of the connector.)

I really appreciate your help. Thanks a million man.

 

Do u mean the dash pad? If i remember, its no help, there is just more plastic under the dash pad, speakers and such.
But u can check if u will, but if i remember correctly one can't get to the cluster or its cables from the top, the cluster sits on a square box in the dash, but it helps a tad when pulling out the whole cluster, if the dash pad is off, don't drop the screws down in the windshield air vents from the dash pad when loosening the screws, if u decide to take off the dash pad.

 

👍 Just seeing what it looks like when it's out helps a lot.

Just for reference, I fond a thread that describes how to remove the DIC on cars with short cable here: (from.post 61)

https:/www.thirdgen.org/forums/electronics/732858-hacking-into-86-88-a-2.html

Will try his way tomorrow.

(I will still have to remove the odometer when its time to reassemble whoever... but maybe its easier/less risk of breaking, when the whole thing is out.)

 

No problem. 🙂
The odometer glass screen is relatively easy to take out when necessary and put back, the glass display has many spikes on it like a comb, so its just a matter of very carefully check as u push the glass display back on the circuit board, that they are aligned as they should, otherwise one or more spikes may bend and not make contact, they are not very brittle, so its not the end of the world even if one spike would bend, it can be pulled back so that it is straight.
And of course not to forget the plastic card thats behind the glass, and check that its not upside down or backwards, if i recall, the matt orange side of the card faces towards u, and the shinier backside of the card, faces towards the dash.

 

One week later, and the ... thing is out. 🤬🤐😎 Jesus's, what a design...

(And I realy did have to fix this to pass the swedish version of MOT. Otherwise I would never have bothered.)

Next challenge, find the error, and put it back together. Should be easy.... 😅

 

Good job man 👍
Are U going with LEDs for the main bulbs or old school bulbs?
Yeah that cluster ain't easy to take out specially if u haven't taken it out before, after that, its just such a task and time consuming but once its back on and if everything works,
i don't see a reason why you'd need to take the cluster out in the near future, with some luck it ought to last years and years and no bulbs changes even, specially if u change the bulbs with new bulbs now when its out of the car.

One light bulb socket behind the cluster might be blank with no bulb on it, it might have been one that sits under/near the oil pressure readout, on the horizontal circuit board, i don't know if yours the same, but i remember wondering why one light bulb socket did not have a bulb on it, yet no dark spot on the readouts that would indicate a bulb thats gone out.

 

Haven't decided on led vs bulbs. But I'm leaning towards led. Can't get 3.8w t10 easily, only 5w and that would be even hoter when the original....

The bulb isn't broken by the way. I tested with a 9v battery, and it did not make contact until I accidentally touched the bulb... 🙃 now it shines just fine. I could probably just put it back together and I'm pretty shure it would just work...

Now that it's apart, it's super easy to pull out more cable for the DIC. I think the trick to get more cable when you remove it is to "wiggle" it left/right while gently pulling it out. You vill get like 2-3mm with each "wiggle". Hard to explain... But it's not impossible, there is actually lot's of cable but it's stuffed away to the left behind the dash.

 

I went with LEDs with the main bulbs, the small bulbs such as the SES light, blinker and high beam light, etc, i replaced with new stock bulbs.

Not everyone likes the LEDs on dash because they are usually quite a bit brighter than stock halogen bulbs, and too bright LEDs on these digital clusters, may make the displays look a bit odd, and at first it may take some time to get used to LEDs in digital cluster, but im happy with mine, at evenings and nights, i keep the cluster dimmer switch rolled down, otherwise it may look like its a tad too bright 👀
​​​​and on bright and sunny days, i keep the switch rolled up, that makes the speedo and all, easier to see, compared when i had the OEM looking bulbs in place and with driving or park lamps on, it makes the dash lights a tad dimmer, so with OEM style lamps, i had a hard time seeing the speedo digits properly on sunny days.

If u are uncertain on some brands of LEDs, its better first just to buy a pair, and test them on the dash, otherwise u might have a handful of pricey bulbs and no use on em, tho they can be used as side marker lights or footwell lights in the interior, so they don't go to waste. But in my opinion when getting LEDs, its best to get high quality ones, some cheap odd looking LEDs may flicker and have a light output dimmer than old OEM bulb.

 

I finally got some time to spend on the car today. Its back together, and it works!!! 🙂😎 I'm very happy right now... 😊

only about 3 hours to put everything back together, pretty easy when you know what it looks like behind... 👍Compered to the 4 days to get it apart.... 👀

I ended up using standard light bulbs. i used 5 watt on the big ones, (that I think is somewhat stronger whan original). For the small ones I used 1.2 watt for the 4 in the center and 3 watt for the left/right/high beam ones. I believe original al are like 1.5 watt, but I could not find that locally so I compromised a bit.

The one behind the odometer was very difrent from the rest. Difrent holder and long leads on the bulb? (I suspect this isn't original, but something that has been modified by someone else previously.)

Anyway tanks for the help. 🙂👍

 

The odometer long lead bulb could be original, i had also the same kinda bulb behind my odometer display.

Do keep an eye on the circuit boards/check them a bit the next time you have the cluster off, on mine, some of the circuit boards had some discoloration on the corners, probably due to heat or its just three decades of wear and tear.