Hi,

I am considering trying an LS1 swap sometime this year when it gets warmer (I would have to do the actual working outside since my garage is occupied.) I have never tried anything this major in the past, so I have a few general questions I hadn't seen covered in this board. First, I understand the basic concepts behind the workings of most components of car engines, as does my dad, who would be helping me. Now for the questions.

1. The car is my daily driver. Now if I was to have a 7 day time period where I could dedicate 4-6 hours a day to work on the car, do you think I could get it done in time?

2. What is the safest way to move the engines in/out of the car?

 

7 days at 4-6 hours a day? I'd guess no way in hell. If you've never done it before then most likely not. This is a SERIOUS swap- probably the most difficult of the common engine swaps. You need ALOT of parts, wiring, mods, exhaust, fabbing stuff, etc. And if you forget 1 part and need to custom order it- well you're screwed.

 

Well there goes that plan. Looks like I'll have to stick to the more simple mods. Thanks for the info!

 

I don't want to discourage you- I just want to give some perspective. The best thing you can do is 1. get opinions from people that have done it, and 2. break down each part of the job into time limits- i.e. so many hours set aside for each major portion. I feel like rewiring can take a good chunk of time. Getting the engine running, and getting everything working and street worthy can be a big difference.

 

I'm with him unless you are experience in this swap, or just damn good with cars in general, plus have all the parts and tools you need ahead of time, there is no way to complete this in a week.

 

Since Ive done it already...I would say that that time frame is doable IF....IF...you were only dumping the motor and trans in and got it running. That means not upgrading anything else. Only replacing the fuel pump... That doesnt include finishing it all to make it look pretty, and that doesnt include getting certain things to work. Also that means that you have all the parts you need on hand. With the amount of knowledge on this board, you could probably order everything you need before you start. But you will still run into a few things that you will need to figure out along the way..

However, since this is your first time...I have to say it wont be enough time for ya. Its not "hard"... its just time consuming. Like was said above, its a lot of little parts and wiring and it will stop you in your tracks especially if you need something after all the stores are closed.

Dont give up on it though!!! Buy a cheap beater to drive while your car is down. You will LOVE the car after it has the LSx engine in it!!

Justin

 

I agree with ghettocruiser and i think that it is possible for sure. Figure one day to pull everything out, one day to get the motor in and bolted up, two days for getting the headers and accesories bolted up and all the fluid in, three days for the wiring and all the little odds and ends. If you really research what is all involved and have a good plan and EVERYTHING you need prior to the swap(not running to autozone every 30 min) then i think its doable.

I had my motor pulled and the ls1 in the engine all bolted up in about 10 hours, i even made my own motor mounts and welded them in, so if you had all the swap parts i think its possible for sure, especailly if you have an extra hand.

 

so tim you could have my LS2 running in my camaro in like 4 hours then huh?

 

lol steve maybe 5 if we spilt a case of miller...

did you pick up a ls2?

 

Smokin87TA: Yeah that sounds about right. My course of action would be as follows...and is pretty much how I did my swap. If I had to daily drive the car, this is definetly what Ide do.

I would gather up all the parts I think I would need. Try to figure it all out. Ide also pick up a 4th gen gas tank...since I think its quicker/easier to modify the filler neck and hard lines than it is to open the tank and swap pumps.

In addition to all the swap items...Ide pick up another 3rd gen k-member. I got one for super cheap even with shipping. This allowed me to clean that up, install the motor mounts, notch it for A/C, mock up the LS1 onto the K-member, and still be driving my car.

I lifted both the donor car and my 87 off of the engine. So quick...so easy. Rolled the 305 TPI out, and since I had another k-member, I didnt need to take anything apart. Left it all on the dolly to be sold as is. Rolled the LS1 under the 87, dropped the car, Viola. All thats left is hooking up a few lines, and reinstalling the front suspension which is just an every day type task. Then the only big issues are wiring and fuel hook up. Then she'll run/drive.

Exhaust can be the biggest pain in my opinion. There arent any satisfactory over the counter y-pipes for long tubes, and if you stay with manifolds, you still have to make something work.

Ill do another swap...Im actually itching to do one. I want to put one in my jeep as well. Donor cars are the way to go...and will save you time, money, and confusion since you were there to take it apart and know whats what...





Justin

 

Not doable at all in my opinion. Even if you go auto I still dont think one shade tree guy alone could pull it off in one week outdoors even if he had experience. Even indoors where you have good lighting and can work around the clock I still dont think its possible.

Only way I could see this happening is if your one heck of a fast/experienced/talented builder with a tight team of helpers and you have a complete running fourth gen donor car otherwise your certain to overlook a part or two that can send you into fits.

 

Why do you have to be a talented builder?? I found nothing about the swap difficult at all. Espcially anything that had to do with "building". I mean the motor mounts drop in. You have to drill a couple extra holes, but who cant do that in 10 minutes? Without A/C thats it...the motor drops in. The swap crossmember makes it complete. Then all thats left is hooking up cooling, fuel, and some wires. If you do the wiring quick and dirty it can be done in a day. At that point...it'll run. Ide be willing to be that anyone could make a half *** exhaust to get by with in a day or two. Or atleast get it running to take it to an exhaust shop to make a y-pipe if they didnt want to mess with it.

He didnt say it had to look perfect or be a show car. But to say its not possible is alittle inaccurate. Given the option of working in a nice garage and being able to work around the clock...Ide say its possible to do it in less than a week. Again... this is all based on having EVERYTHING needed. That was the major stipulation... That he have everything on hand to do the build.

There will be things that he needs to work on... Like gauge hook ups. But the car will run and drive. Not tryin to sound like a jerk either by the way. Just that Im confident that it can be done...by yourself..no team of people...in a fairly short time period. A donor car makes it better...but adds alittle time because you need to pull the motor. However seeing how it all comes apart will save you time later when you have to put it all back together. SO it might be a trade off.

Haha...maybe Ill do the swap in my jeep. During the summer when i dont need the 4x4. Ill do it as quickly as possible. From tear down to driving around. And see hwo long it takes...just for giggles. That should be a true example because there is no bolt in solutions for mounts.

Anyway...good luck man if you do try to do it. Just come on here and search, ask questions, and PM those who have it completed. Preparation is your friend in this sort of project.

Justin

 

I guess your version of done and mine differ. Running and done are VERY different things.

Theres a lot of work to be done in this swap and I'm not about to tell this guy who admittedly little experience that its doable in a week. How long did it take you?

 

a piece of advice, it's not only dropping the motor in. i had that done in a day. fuel lines, wiring, fuse blocks, suspension, it's alot of small work. especially the exhaust which i believe was the biggest pain in the ***. if your missing 1 part, it will set u back a couple of days, and alot of $$. if you want to do it right and u've never done the swap before, i suggest taking your time and doing it right the first time......

 

Cam... Not sure if you were taking what I said as offensive or not... It wasnt meant that way.

Obviously the guy isnt going to complete the swap in a week. It sounded like the thread turned into is it possible to get an LS1 car up and running in a week. My answer is yes. Can he do it...sure...if he is handy, and does his homework, and orders everything he needs...then I dont see why he couldnt do it. Does that mean it'll be easy...heck no.

I think your version of done and my version of done arent different at all. Go look at my car. Its got 2000 miles on it...but I dont consider it DONE yet. But my car is "more done" than some others that have been driving theirs for awhile. And the question how long did it take me..? Well it took me about 3 months. Considering the amount of extra custom work I did I think thats pretty good. I built a whole new EVAP box to use the 4th gen A/C system. I also rebuilt the suspension. Built a custom dash. Painted the engine bay. Installed a 12bolt. Installed 4th gen brakes.... The list goes on and on. If I go back and just remember the nights that I worked on installing the engine and getting it to run...it is less than a week. I only worked on it at night after work. Not even on the weekends as I usually had something going on. And the pic that I posted...that was my garage. Just the spot in the driveway.

Point is...I think it can be done correctly, and in a timely manner. Thats all Im sayin. And IF your version of correctly and "done" is just to have the car together, safe, and running around...then a week could count as a timely manner.

Blkdth87: Youre right...the exhaust was the biggest pain. I even had to rebuild the Hawks y-pipe. And you said you installed the engine in one day. Which sounds about right. But I dont think running fuel lines, wiring and coolant hoses would take more than a few days. Heck..if you have the fuse blocks from the 4th gen, all you gotta do is hook power to it, IGN to it. ground it, plug in the engine harness and it will fire. No need to mess with suspension if you just want to do the swap. There are rumors that the front end sits higher...but a few of us havent seen that happen. SO that might be a car to car thing. Again...like I said, all this depends on if he did his research, and had a good game plan, and had everything that he needed. There are enough of us on this site with info that someone can pretty plan out and buy everything they need before hand.

Ok...I think we've gone beyond the track of this guy's thread. And I certainly didnt mean to ruffle any feathers... or try to make myself out to be an LS1 swapping god...because Im not. There are certainly cleaner swaps than mine out there. There is no way Ide try to complete a swap like this in a week if I had the choice. But then again I have another car to drive. So like I said..CAM...nothing was meant to be a slap in the face or anything. Just givin my opinions!!!

Justin

 

I'm just doin the same man.

Three months is still very quick for this swap IMO and much more realistic. Mine was down two years but I barely ever had time to work on it and I did so many other mods at the same time that it just went on and on. Wiring was easy. The biggest problem I had were seized injectors confusing the heck out of me when it wouldn't start. Guess thats what happens when a fuel rail sits that long. Runs good now though

 

I honestly dont think you know what you are talking about. how many ls1 swaps have you done. It doesnt sound like any or else you would know that its a pretty straight forward swap. I had my swap complete in about a week and that was only working on the car after work for maybe 5 hours a day.

I rewired the entire pcm wire by wire all 160 of them, didnt want a wiring harness in the car, you only need to connect 8 wires to get the motor running. i think my swap turned out to be a awsome show quality in a week. I made a custom airbox in that time also. .

So i guess our versions must be different, mine will be far superior to yours. If you research everything you need, its not a big deal. Run open headers for a day, until you can get to a shop to make up your exhaust. Fuel system isnt hard if you just get the aeromotive regulator.

 

I've done one LS1 swap into a carbed car. Never professed to be such an expert on it as you clearly must be I just wanted to point out to our original poster here that its not something I feel can be done in a week. Glad you are so great though its good to know.

*bows to the "far superior" LS1 swap guru*

 

Given that each of the 8 injectors has a PCM connection, I'm going to consider one of the following to be true:

1.) You're fibbing.
2.) Your grammar is as bad as your spelling, and you meant to say "8 wires other than the PCM."

I'm not too interested in you indicating which is the case, just wanted to point out that if you're going to bash people you kind-of need to be right.

 

What he means is only 8 wires out of the new harness needs to be connected to the car.

And that statement has been made dozens of times by various people in the know. So yes, he is right Kevin.

 

yea exactly, with a ls1 harness there is only 8 wires that are needed to adapt it to the stock body harness, fuel pump, cooling fans, ignition, ground, starter, and a couple other but you get the point. Most of the guages will also work without doing anything like fuel level, voltage, you will have to connect 1 wire for the tach and 1 wire for the speedo. You will also need to get a 1wire temp sender for the coolant and connect it to the guage, so there is only a need to actually connect 8 wires to get it running.

 

Im not trying to bash anyone here im just stating that this swap is 100% do-able in a week if everything is planned for. I have done 3 motor swaps in my car and they were all going for 305 to 350 to 355 and honestly going to an ls1 is right on the same level of difficulty as those motor swaps. Its probably one of the easier swaps that can be preformed. I mean honestly what part of the swap is taking people almost 2 years to complete? my guess would probably just be funding it. getting the motor in is a piece of cake, the acc. setup is easy, wiring isnt bad at all, fuel lines are easy with the correct parts(possible intank pump swap might be the biggest problem). thats it, pretty straightforward.

 

I see. In your world planning does not take time? I guess when you have lots to spare its easy to overlook

Now its crystal clear how GREAT you really are *kudos*

I cant speak for others but in my case. Time.

Of course I said that already above but I understand its not easy for everyone to read.

 

The part that is taking some over 2 years...is that they are in no hurry. They are also almost always re-doing more than just the engine and trans. The are rebuilding suspension, or doing body work, etc etc...

I had a lot of people tell me I wouldnt get my car done in under a year. But I did everything in 3 months. Did I do somethings alittle quick and dirty? Yes. But only things that I knew Ide be re-doing anyway. Like the 4th gen wash bottle install. Stupid things like that. The mechanical part of my swap is 100%.

My advice to anyone doing a swap...is to try to get a donor car. I was able to drive my donor car back and forth from the storage place before taking it apart. There was a TON of stuff that I used. Not to mention the hardware is almost all the same for the suspension and all. So you dont have to re-use your old thirdgen nuts and bolts in most cases.

Another biggie with the donor car is the wiring. I had all the plugs from the wire harness...plus the other side of each of those plugs. So everything on my car is plug and play just like it was in the 4th gen from the factory.

I would never try to "toot" my own horn, or try to come off as some LS1 swap god... but I did a TON to my car in 3 months of just working during the evening...outside. I tried to divide my time to get it all done. I worked after work outside doing the major stuff..then after dark...or if it was raining, I was in the garage fiberglassing the EVAP box, or making the dash board. Its all about the plan of atack. Let yourself get overwhelmed or dont plan ahead for parts, and you'll get stuck.

By the way...I would LOVE to spend a year + on a car. Thats the way Ide prefer to do things. And I do plan to tear my car back down one of these days, and do everything over again...including body work and making things look alittle neater than they are now. I didnt PLAN to do suspension and brakes and all that jazz....but one thing led to another and thats what I ended up doing. Domino effect...(while I have the suspension apart, might as well do a shock, spring, and brake upgrade etc etc...) Haha...frickin doubled my budget in no time.


Justin

 

Wow, what happened to this thread? One person just wanted to know about the LS1 swap feasability in a timely manner. Sounds like it turned into a somewhat heated debate.

It can be an intimidating swap, especially for a first timer. The PCM and such does add an element of hesitation as opposed to just throwing in another first gen smallblock with a holley carb and tin headers...

We've all done it, we've all been there.

What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the murphy's law factor. Rusted and broken bolts, missing parts, etc. It happened to me.

I tried to be as prepared as possible when I did my Gen 3/ LS1 swap. I thought I had everything. I didn't. Not even close. Many trips to the parts stores, orders on the phone (and waiting for up to 2 weeks or so at a time for parts), etc. My swap took a lot longer than I had planned. I thought I could do it in a couple of weekends. Everything "bolts in", etc. But it didn't happen that way.

And I had what I thought would be everyhting needed from the crashed donor car.

And then, of course, things can take longer than expected. One example were my motormounts. I ordered the ones from F-body motorsports. After they (finally) arrived, I installed them where the only set of bolt holes seemed to line up on my crossmember. Turns out I located them in the wrong spot and the engine wouldn't fit. (Wasn't back far enough) So the engine came back out (after spending time trying to set it in) and then I had to drill out new holes in the crossmember to allow all 4 bolts to fit in each mount base. Then it took 2 people to get the bolts and nuts torqued down because they were difficult to reach. The point is this task alone ate up half a day. A lot longer than expected, and this is just one small task. For me- things took a lot longer than planned.

However, now having this experience I am more prepared and knowledgable for the next swap, which is much less intimidating because I know what is involved.

Ideally, it would be cool if there was an organized "checklist" that someone could prepare for the swap. (Maybe there is already, I don't know). It could outline what is needed for the carburated cars versus the later fuel injected ones, have part numbers, and possibly pictures, etc.

I know that GM has the "LS1 installation guide" which is helpful with part numbers, etc., but I'm referring to a specific 3rd gen retrofitting guide...

Having this list up front and ordering the parts involved first would make the potential "weekend" swap much more likely to happen.


I hope this is helpful.

-Brendon

 

I completely agree with the list from some of the more experienced swappers. They all tell you to have everything in order but, for us first timers that is kinda hard to do if you don't know of everything you need.

 

i must say that you guys pick up the new camaro performers magazine where they have the article on an LS1 install...very inspiring and looks pretty simple!!!!!

 

For an inexperienced guy, its very unlikely he'll be able to get it done in a week. You'd actually have 9 days, sat, sun, mon-fri, then another sat, sun. However a real cheap beater would cure that problem, you need a winter car anyways.

Mine's taking far longer to do than expected. Getting the motor in was relativly easy, but the motor mounts (from Spohn) gave me fits, turns out that on my car they had to be pushed out (away from the center of the car) as far as possible. The first time (yes first) I put the motor in, I could get one side in no problem, but was 1/2" off on the other side. After spending way too much time trying to figure out if the brackets were made wrong, or put in wrong or if my car was shrunk, we pulled the motor back out, went through every way the motor mount brackets could be put in again. I then thought WTH, while re-bolting them in, I made sure they were as far to the outside of the car as possible got about 1/4" out of each and the next time the motor went in, with a little persuesion, I got it to bolt in on both sides.

This took 2-3 weekends work of head scratching, motor wrestling etc to get right (as I generally only have about half a weekend's worth of time to spend on the car, esp when I had a girlfriend who also wanted some of my time- go figure). Anyway, every single part of the swap has taken longer than expected and a bunch of procrastination on my part hasn't helped either. But It'd better be done before it reaches the 1 year mark. I think I'd cry if it did.