Has anyone here taken their 5.3 / 4L60E third gen to the dragstrip? If so, please post up your mods, exhaust, gears, tires and timeslips. Plus the density altitude, temps, and whatever else makes a significant difference. I know most guys don't record every detail, but more is better.

 

Noone, huh? Well, I guess I found a close enough answer, in the October '08 issue of Hot Rod magazine. "The jumbo crate motor comparo of death!"
The 5.3 did rival the ZZ4, with a 12.354 @ 105.67 versus 12.447 @ 105.67 for the ZZ4, but the 5.3 couldn't approach the mild "383" ( really 382 ) 11.705 @ 111.71.
It seems the 5.3 not only needs mounts, accessories, and oil pan, but also needs nitrous.
Perhaps the 5.3 could do better MPG, but surely a 383 could pull less RPM at any given MPH.
The 383 is a bit boring, and LSx swaps are still rare around here. But if it won't run with the big dogs, what does it matter how it looks?
I'm torn.

 

5.3 is a potent motor while having better MPG than any of the original sbc's we had in these cars. they also tend to have better "street manners" at higher power levels and the 5.3's are becoming quite the block of choice for cheap turbo setups.

with all that said, a 6.0 is not too much more (in a complete swap like this) and will put out some really good numbers with stock parts

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ot-left-6.html

Stock 5.3/4L60E 2.73 open rear, street tires
Old M90 blower bolted on for something extra

 

So I still have first dibs on an LM7 for $650, or second dibs on an LQ4 for $1400. I have a 350 with Vortec heads, but it's not in the car. The remaining budget for an engine is $2,000. For that, I'm sure I can do better than just a 400 HP 350, including getting it moving under it's own power.
Will that budget do an LSx swap? Selling the 350 might make it a $2300 budget? Would you tolerate a stock 5.3 at that cost?

 

If you DIY absolutely everything and deal shop for months, $2300 is going to be a hard budget for a LSx swap

 

Thank you Pocket.
I was thinking about it, and I don't want to get left behind. Plus emissions inspections are coming, maybe in 3 years, maybe in 9.
It seems to me that a stock 5.3 shouldn't break the 7.5" 10-bolt, so I could re-budget the axle funds to the swap?

 

My swap NA was just under $2,000 but it took 9 months to collect the stuff. Once all the used parts quit breaking, it was about $2300

Axle is original, DS original, rad, gastank etc, all original. Upgraded only what was absolutely necessary

 

What are 5.3's rated at? 300hp? I dont see how that wouldnt run high 12's in a 3rd gen with proper converter and good tires for sticky launch. More is likely possible with exhaust mods/tune and more gear/stall/slicks/suspension but depends on how high you go. Big difference in stock stall vs 3000 on that setup.

 

Thanks to Orr, Pocket and Dan.
In my reading, it seems that a single MasterPower T76 works well with this engine, and should be enough for 10-second timeslips, running 14 psi?
Further, all indications are that turbos work best with taller gearing, like 2.73:1 or 3.08:1 rather than 3.73:1 or 4.10:1?
I keep reading how boost is easier on parts than nitrous, but I'm still leaning toward a progressive nitrous, partly for the cooling effect. No costly, heavy FMIC, no bulky tubing, no BOV, no wastegate, no oil lines, no weird exhaust.
Getting a nitroused 383 to run 10s, there's no new challenge there.

 

my friends LS6 cammed LS1 motor with single garret 74mm went 10.5's in a very heavy car with 12psi or so. over 500whp on 8psi. Basically mild LS1 brought up to LS6 spec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4j3wY8Kt0w

5.3 on same boost with a mild cam like that would easily go 10's in a 3rd gen. Heck its likely to not even need a cam

My other buddy has a stock internal LS2 but with ARP rod bolts with 230 deg cam, ported 317 heads, twin 62mm turbos running 11 psi on E85 gas with methy injection made 816whp on a mustang dyno through a T56 and 14 bolt rear end truck. LS motors can live on stock internals with good tune. Likely to last well with nitrous too but boost is easier on the parts since it ramps in slow. If you go progressive nitrous then you'll get the same effect.

Run enough gear to put the motor in the power band you expect to run. That may be 2.73 or it may be 4.10...all depends on what tire diameter you use, and what MPH you expect to trap, and where your peak hp rpm is.

Getting a nitrous/cam only 5.3 to run 10's is no challenge either with a big enough cam and shot they will live. 200 on a progressive hit, and cam only for mid high 300's whp, thats DEEP 10 second slips. 500whp will get you comfortably into the mid 10's in an adverage weight 3rd gen

 

I guess I'll place an order on Monday for a pair of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...70022504002171

 

My tuner guy has a single cab 96 silverado with cam only 5.3, truck intake, truck fuel rails and everything with a 76mm on it. Made 801rwhp on 20psi, and 924rwhp on 25psi. runs low 10s. thing is a damn sleeper...

 

But I'm not looking to buy forged parts right away.
Most of what I'm reading agrees that the stock pistins are fine below 15 psi, and that should, in theory, be 600 HP at the crankshaft. I would be thrilled beyond words to have 600 HP, especially with stock parts! The 383 should do 486 HP, plus a 200-shot of nitrous. But that combo would never pass emissions. If the 5.3 gets the turbo moved rearward of the cat like Squires ( STS ) does it, then it might be legal.

 

Not necessarily... you can get a strong running 383 that will pass most emissions. Guys in california are doing motors like this. One 369" motor made 535hp on engine dyno, 420whp and passes smog. Revs to 7K. Another 406 motor with 280xfi cam made around 400whp and lots of torque and it still makes it through cali smog.

You can build a 450hp 383 easily with good heads and mild cam with low overlap. With cats and good tune, it should pass emissions just fine. tune is critical tho

 

I apologize for not doing a better job of conveying my thoughts. Here is what I think I should have typed:The combo I had in mind, it won't pass smog. With AFR heads, a TPiS Mini-Ram, and a Comp XFI cam, I'm sure it could be done. But that stuff doesn't fit my budget.
GMPP has a Vortec EGR intake much like the Edelbrock Performer, but it won't support 486 HP. The RPM AirGap will, but it's not emissions legal. For my Vortec heads to do 449 HP on a 383 takes a 230/236-110 HR cam that won't pass emissions. To get that to 486 HP takes good porting, which I doubt I can do, and am not sure fits in my budget.
I can get away with those illegal parts, but for how long? 2 years? 5?
When I was in my 20s, I would change my 350 parts combo every few weeks. But now I'm around age 40, and I'm tired of bending over the fenders. I just want to build it once, and then drive it for several years. 5 years from now, there may be an LS3-based 416-cube version on the engine stand in my garage, ready to replace the 383 or 5.3L, who knows?
Thank you, Orr, for making sure my comments don't mis-lead future readers.

 

IF you plan to go LSx down the road, then build the 5.3 or 4.8 even to get the car LSx ready and then the big 416 swap will be easy plug and play

 

That's an excellent point: How much less will I feel like doing the conversion labor when I'm another 5 years older?
I'm pretty well sold on doing the 5.3 this summer.

 

my 224/228, 243 headed, fast 90 5.3 made 352/344 and ran 7.96. I forgot the mph

 

Assuming I want to gear the car for how it'll be driven 99% of the time, and assuming 26" tires, then a 3.42:1 should give me 5800 rpm at 75 MPH, or a 3.23:1 should be 5500, or a 3.08:1 should be 5250, or a 3.73:1 should be 6300.
I think I want the 3.08:1 with the stock cam, for best MPG. Because 2.73:1 should be just 4700, and the stock HP peak is 5200. But I can't help wondering about a 3.23:1 with an '01-'02 LS1 / LQ4 / LQ9 cam. Those are nearly free. The later intake closing might offset the extra RPM at cruise, giving the same MPG?

 

IF you have a stockish 5.3, I can see near 106-108mph traps in an average weight thirdgen. To get there in the 1/4 mile with 5200 rpm peak, 26" tire and assuming locked converter, you'd want to run 3.73's. If its an open converter, its gonna be slipping alittle so you may run the line at 5600 rpm or so depending on how much slip.

IF you had headers/tune/etc, you may trap closer to 112-113, so 3.42's will get you 5000 rpm at the stripe.

3.42's are a great overall gear in a 4L60/65E type tranny with most engines. I ran them on my street strip 383 and that turned 6800 rpm. Didnt optimize for 1/4 mile but for street driving. WHen I went nitrous, it worked almost perfectly. WOrked very well for my twin turbo car on low boost too. Once I went higher boost, i needed less gear or taller tire. I chose less gear when the 3.42 posi broke

 

Well, I have a 3.42:1 gear set on hand, so I guess I'll just start with that for my baseline.

 

Well the more i think about it, if the 5.3 is only 300hp crank rated, then with only a catback and LS6 type intake and a tune, should get 320hp, and that will do near 103-105 mph traps.... I had full bolt on L98 that i rated at 300-310hp that made 254 at the tires, and ran only 104 in GOOD air conditions...188 ft DA and 40 deg air temps 3.42s are a better match for that setup.

 

Orr, I want to thank you again for patiently mentoring me.
I guess my next post will be when my mount adapter plates arrive. I will be ordering them tomorrow.

 

Okay, the plates are ordered.

 

Here is a thread i made for a budget swap, just to give ideas if you have not seen it yet:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...t-ls-swap.html

 

Thanks for the link Zones. It seems to need updating. For prices, and availability, and what works.
I'm not finding much good info on accessory brackets. Word is that the GTO stuff works, but what's available ( new ) is the CTS-V stuff.
All I can find used is the truck stuff.
The F-car oilpan is $176!!!!, the F-car damper is $52, the F-car water pump is $82, the F-car alt bracket is just $15, and that's about it for what's even available.
I got a free ported TB, but the rookie porter broke through, and now I have to JB it.
I'm going through hell with the injectors. It looks like I have to spend about $300 for a new set of FRPP 19#, and hope they flow the same as these LM7 injectors.
And I can't find any upgrade pushrods in the $50 price range. Let alone any that are about 0.030" short, at any price. Do we just put shims under the rocker stands? If so, why am I not seeing these advertised?
I found a new MAF, but it's $137!!!!
These new engines are maddening!
ANYONE have ANY help for these latest issues, PLEASE?

 

Yea, since i did that swap, it seems allot of parts i used fell out of existence, CRAZY since those headers were everywhere and now i never see them.

 

Here's what I found last night:
oil pan: 12628771 $176
tube: 12558251 $30
tray: 12558253 $16
dipstick: 12551581 $10
tube: 12551577 $8
alternator brace: 12556915 $11
power steering pump brace: 12555693 $6
EGR plug: 12558346 $ 13
I still can't find the pushrods I described in my last post.

 

Nickelson's plates arrived. I like them so far, they fit the block, and my Moroso mounts. But I'm not yet ready to try them in the car.
With the plates on the block, I couldn't snug the mounts to the plates, even using his short bolts, with lock washers.
What's needed is some grinding to the block.
I guess you could cut the bolts short, or use more lockwashers, but then you only get 5/16" of coarse thread engagement.
But with the block grinding, it should be easy to add locknuts.
I'll try to do some pics this weekend.

 

Last night I made some pics of where the block must be clearanced, and why.
I did a little grinding, it's a start.

 

First was cleaning out the threads.
Then a shot of where the driver's side was hitting.



Then I did some grinding until it cleared.

 

 

 

Driver's side is done.

 

The passenger side went about the same. Here are the pics:

 

 

If you do the same, figure at least an hour per side. I was not trying to be fast, it took me closer to 2 hours per side.

 

Okay, the pushrod problem has no resolution, other than to not shave the heads, and find some used, non-dished pistons.
4.8L pistons would be the cheapest option, but going 5.7L would add torque, and let me run a more serious cam.
For the 5.7L option, I've settled on 2 finalists:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-54-424-11/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-30602001/
I'm sure all of you will lean towards the TFS cam. It's "bigger" and cheaper, with a more aggressive-sounding idle.
But the cost advantage disappears IF it happens to require more time spent dyno-tuning.

 

Mine hit like that, too 30 minutes to get them both right.

The LT1 95 Z28 i swapped a 6.0 into using the LT1 mounts was a different story.

 

6.0 into '95 Z? crazy!

I sent an e-mail to my tuning guy. He's a couple of states away, but there are no good tuners near me. I'll have to visit one of the few local chassis dynos to get it dialed in, but that's looking high risk. The only guy with a good rep, he specializes in the Ford modulars. Dunno if he's even got LS1Edit.

 

My 3.4L '86 Camaro is virtually done, so I should be back to my 5.3L on Wednesday, I expect.
Since I'm wanting about 13.5 psi ( 1 bar MAP sensor for good resolution ) I'm going to stay with a stock-dished-pistons, 9.5:1, un-milled-heads, 5.3L
The boost will be next year, so for now, just assemble it for daily driveable with no boost. Possibly a 208/208-114, 554/554 cam and LS6 springs.
It should be an all-midrange cam, with a pile of torque under the curve.

 

There may be a problem, with the Moroso mounts. See near the bottom of the first post in this thread: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...l#post15110279
It makes me wonder if Moroso based their then-new solid mounts off worn, sagged GM rubber mounts, or brand new GM rubber mounts.
If I have the same problem as this guy had, then my idea is to grind the block's mounting bosses about 1/8" on each side.
Because the Morosos will work, as is, with the 350 in my garage.

 

It's worse than that. I did a test fit, and I would have to grind 1/4" off each side. So I'm going to stop, and save up for the Spohn mounts.

 

I have an idea. I was looking at my '86 V6 Camaro, the engine mounts to be specific, and I was looking at the Spohn LSx mounts.
It seems to me that the cheapest and easiest solution for my '84 Camaro is to get a set of the V6 mounts, then make a plate for the LSx block to bolt up to the V6 mounts. This should leave space for the low-mount a/c, too.

 

Since I'm not taking my crank, rods and pistons in for a performance balance job, and since factory balancing can be vary wildly, I don't really want to solid-mount my 5.3L.
I just checked the website for my nearest local auto parts store, and I can get a pair of new Anchor 2465 mounts for around $12, including tax.
But the website says in store availability is usually within 24 hours. So order them tomorrow morning, get them Saturday morning, test fit them to my '84 Camaro on Saturday afternoon.
Energy Suspension has polyurethane inserts, but that would add a full $100 to my cost. So I'll pass. If you copy me, and want them, their part number is 3.1145G for black graphite-impregnated-polyurethane ( non-squeak ) or 3.1145R for squeaky red polyurethane.

 

there are a ton of companies out there that make the plate adapters for the v8 mounts for very cheap. i bought my last set for about $35 with hardware on ebay, more than reasonably priced to skip trying to make them myself.

 

Thanks, Dan.
But I already tried that. I got the exact same plates that another LSx swapper here used for his black '91 or '92 Camaro, and he had no problems with them.
But he reused his stock SBC mounting, while I tried Moroso solids.
So either Mickelson designed his plates for worn out, sagged rubber mounts, or Moroso screwed up their design, though it works fine with my 350.
Plus I figure a lot of LSx swappers will be starting with V6 cars, anyway. And changing the mounts isn't easy, even if removing the control arms first.
All I need to do is install the V6 mounts, install my 5.3, then make ears for the plates, bolt the ears to the V6 mounts, then weld the ears to the plates.
Now I have something that I can't be sued for, that I can duplicate and sell for $30.
I'm doing it.

 

You're not from Utah are you?

 

Wrong side of the Mississippi river. Why?
I'm all in favor of supporting TGO's sponsors, but the Spohn brackets, plus the 4th gen rubber mounts, add up to a lot more than my idea. Doing it the conventional way would set me back a few weeks.
And now that my '86 is all sorted and ready for inspection then registration, I'm eager to see some progress on some V8 power!
And as Robert Kiyosaki ( Rich Dad, Poor Dad ) says, if you want something, first figure out how to make it pay for itself.
Lots of guys here fab, but not enough of them sell copies. Some of the people who claim they're going to, they never do.
I just found an e-mail from my tuning guy, he's not gonna charge me that much extra to do a big cam, so I don't need a baby cam.
That last baby cam I considered has the same overlap as the cam Comp claims works with a stock 5.3 tune, but better off-idle torque. However, I scored a torqeue converter off CL, so I suddenly don't care about low rpm torque.
I was reading on LS1Tech, and read about reverse-split Torquer cams, so I asked Predator-z about a 224/220-110-1, but he wasn't helpful.
I'm not so dumb as to experiment with a big cam just for my vanity, and the expert did suggest I stat with a regular dual pattern, so now I'm liking the Lunati 222/228-113, 567/567, with the LS6 springs.
Lunati claims it works well with 5.3-6.0L, very strong..above 3500.., great street performance choice, and very driveable with excellent street manners. 2000-6600.
So it should be fun with a 3.73:1 axle.