Strick1

I have always removed the engine from the top, but I have seen several guys here that prefer going out the bottom. I'm open to try this method. I have a engine hoist and my Camaro is already up on jack stands. My K-member is out. How high does the Camaro have to be off the ground? What do you use as a cradle to hold the engine and tranny? Any pictures of this procedure out there? Thanks in advance for any help.

robbe_iroc

I think I have some pics from when I did it on my page www.nordiccamaros.se

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

I did it by lowering engine from car on jack stands, then raising body.
Install was opposite. Lower body over engine on ground. Then hoist engine into place.

Strick1

Now that sounds doable. Thanks. You had the engine and tranny connected when you did it? That is what appeals to me instead of wrestling under the car putting in the tranny.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I gone through the bottom 4 times now. That doesnt sound right... But I prefer it on many levels.

The only downside for me, is disconnecting the front brakes. I feel thats the only drawback. So Im currently looking into custom brake line routing to avoid this issue in the future.

Each time Ive done it, I did it completely on my own. I dont like the idea of taking the hood off. Gotta put it somewhere safe. And regardless of what tricks I use to get it back on in the same spot, my alignment is almost always off. ON my 86, it was so straight and clean, I didnt want to spoil that. Its also easy to get the k-member on and bolted up.

I just put a time lapse video of me putting an LQ4 in from the bottom. Took me about an hour, but that included a dolly caster sinking into the driveway, and a few other little set backs like camera issues haha. Ill post it if you want to check it out, and the video before that on my channel explains my hoist set up and all. And some pictures of how I did it in the past.









So easy Ive done it in the dark... haha.



And the latest round...





Vid kind of stinks but oh well...

Strick1

Hey Ghettocruiser,

Thank you so much for the video. It was exactly what I needed. I liked the time lapse. I need to find your video on the gas tank.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Quite a gallery Jason added.... great source.

Yes, tranny was connected.
Car front is freaky light with no engine. I had jack stands under the sub frame connectors- so I could do rear axle work, too- without the engine, you could pick the front up by hand!
I put jack stands under the axle real quick when I discovered that.....LOL.

Strick1

Thanks again for the info. Here is where I'm at with my project:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...5-caprice.html

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Yeah i didnt mention that... The front end can EASILY be maneuvered by two guys, maybe even one. The ONLY sketchy part for me is when Im lifting the front back up after mating the k-member. Just because its extra weight that wasnt there when you were lifting before. The hoist can still easily handle it though.

Justin

Strick1

I have the same hoist and I'm sure it will do the job. You are right, the front end is light without the engine and tranny in.

I appreciate the help. Justin, I think you missed your calling. You should be doing shows on Speed Channel.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Hah thats nice of you to say...but if you saw how much stuff i have to cut out of my videos because of me stammering or babbling..or dropping things you would probably change the channel haha.

Just hoping my videos help some people out down the road! Youtube and forums help me so much with my projects I like to pay back if I can.

Good luck getting your car together!

Strick1

Using this method I can start putting the fenders back on before I put the engine in.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

There are pros and cons to each way I guess. From the bottom, you can have the have the engine components assembled before. But I dont see that it offsets having to reassemble the whole suspension and therefore have to get it aligned and bleed the brakes. Not to mention messing with the springs. If you have the front end raised, you can put motor and tranny in as a unit if that's your concern. I just know I can drop a motor and tranny in from the top in about an hour and not mess with any of the suspension. Drop and drive. To each his own, do what you feel comfortable with.

Strick1

Thanks Joe. We're painting the engine bay and through the bottom has less chance of scratching it, I think.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

having done it both ways, I much prefer from the top.

also through the bottom is sketchy IMO (talking personal safety here)

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Front suspension is cake to assemble. Bleeding the brakes is the only pita. And its not that bad with a helper. No need for an alignment as long as you don't change your tie rod lengths or remove your strut mounts. I agree its more stuff to assemble. Pretty sure each time I've had suspension work to do anyway haha. I just hate having to dangle the motor and not scratch things. Plus with my setup getting the pass side header on or off with it in the car is near impossible.

sailtexas186548 what about thru the bottom is sketchy safety wise? Def to each his own and all. Just curious.

You guys doing engine and trans together from the top...are you using one of those leveler attachments for the hoist or just pushing the trans down and in?

J.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

when you remove the engine from the top your not under anything heavy that it supported by a crane/hoist, don't have to move heavy suspension stuff, the car is not hanging way up in the air (some part of you ends up under there, especially the first couple times LOL), there is a whole lots less potential energy in the system compared to leaving the car on the ground and standing next to it while lifting the engine. Either way is ok if your smart about though

Strick1

I think we all agree that both ways have there benefits. I've only done engine removal/install from the top and I'm willing to try from the bottom. In my case, we'll be doing lots of suspension work,i.e., ball joints, bushings in the A-arms, steering box rebuild, etc. Having the K-member out seems to make things easier. The last time I put the engine in from the top, I had a tuff time getting the motor mounts in. I like to keep an open mind on different procedures and this one has got my attention. I'll let you know how it goes and if I like it or not. Thanks for the inputs. BTW, safety is always on my mind. I like backups to supporting things before I get under things.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Fair enough sailtexas!

Def gotta be safe. Thats why I put it in the second title of that video haha.

Have fun with those ball joints Strick1 They were the worst part for me.

J.

mwfrels

Thank you for the video Justin. It gives me a LOT more insight and confidence in the bottom-up method. I'm sold...

M

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I always pull and install from the top, and prefer to pull / install the engine & tranny as a single unit. I prefer not to use a 'leveler',... I've got one but it's just a PITA to crank that sucker when the motor is 5 feet in the air.

When installing the chain to pull / install I bolt a chain to the front of one head and the back of the oposite head, pull the chain up from the center by hand & then hook the hoist about 5 chain lenghts off center so the hook is closer to the front then the rear. It's gets pull out at a real steep angle so a cap is needed for the tranny tailshaft to prevent un-controlled leakage.



* Removing that cap on the tailshaft once the engine is in this position is a great way to drain most of the tranny fluid out !

During removal or installation I use a small jack with wheels on it under the tranny tailshaft. On the way out I'll lower the jack as I raise the front of the motor,... when installing I'll place the jack under the tailshaft at a higher setting and lower it as the engine begins to drop into place to level it out. A jack with good wheels allows the jack to roll forward or back on it's own while pulling or dropping the drive-train.

I work alone and have pulled, installed, swapped about 25-30 or so engines.
Installing from to top is the best way FOR ME. I can still roll the car anywhere it needs to go - at any time - and the Engine is very mobile too.

Strick1

Thanks John, Great shot of the engine coming out with the tranny.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I did the last job by removing from the bottom, K-member/engine/trans/harness together. I used a Harbor Freight piano dolly to roll them out. I did use some 2x4's on the dolly to level things out. I put the rear tires on ramps (one facing forward, the other facing aft, to keep the car from rolling off them). I was able to pull the unit out from under the car, and push it back into place, without getting myself under the hoisted car.

If (when) I do this again, I will fab up some A-arm holders to keep the front springs compressed before disconnecting the struts. Putting the springs back in was absolutely the worst part of the operation. Opening up the brake lines just meant I'd have an opportunity to bleed the brakes and get clean fluid into the calipers.

John in RI - I see you have the front bumper et al off the front of the car. That's almost a given when going from the top, because the typical cherry picker engine hoist boom isn't long enough to reach back where you need to hoist up on a 3rd gen engine (load leveler doesn't help - in fact, it'll hit the cowl, which you could say makes using a load leveler worse than no using one).

The last several times I did engine and/or tranny from the top, I came in from the side with the engine hoist so I didn't have to remove the front bumper.

Oh, should also mention I did all of these operations solo.

And, if you're blessed enough to have a 2-post car lift to do this job, dropping the engine/trans out from the bottom (or, more accurately, lifting the car away from the engine/trans) is the only sane choice.

Strick1

I couldn't use the leveler either when going out the top. We'll be putting in new springs and bushings. I noticed some of the guys have a strut mount that doesn't look OE. Is more adjustment possible with these aftermarket mounts?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

VERY Good Point ! I have heard about that. At one time some 20 years ago I had drilled an extra hole in the boom of my first hoist just to give me a little more space. I'm on my 3rd hoist now and never drilled into the boom of #2 or 3.

I just happened to have the nose off that car during the swap because it was a full resto.......... Yes, It's gets close to the nose. But as long as your off center, take your time and watch what your doing, most people will not have a problem. Off center is also recommended because many times the chain will cause the engine to 'spin' a little once lifted.


This Firebird had JUST been painted when I swapped the V8 in.....






** Notice that I don't overload the engine with parts before setting it back into an engine bay. That matters due to the VERY limited room I've got to work.

The best part about taking it from the top IMO is that there's no need to screw around with the front suspension - AT ALL. To me that seems like a LOT of time wasted wrenching parts OFF and then back ON,..... worrying every time I start turning a rusty bolt if this is the 1 that's gonna' snap - when there's no reason any of that stuff needs to be touched during an engine swap.

Just my opinion,... I'll admit that what often works for me often fails to work for others !!

LastGTA

iTrader: (1)

So I'm about to pull the motor out since I have just sold it. I have a couple questions on both methods.

From the top:
1. Do you have to take the radiator out?
2. What accessories need to be taken off?
3. Can you leave the stock exhaust manifolds on?

From the bottom:
1. Does the steering need to be removed?
2. How hard is it to get the k member back in so I can at least push the car around?
3. What, if any, accessories do I need to remove before the motor will come out?

I just need to get the motor out. The LS motor won't be going in till the winter and I plan on rebuilding the steering, replacing the k member with a tubular and adding coil overs. My biggest hurdle is that the car needs to me mobile so I can push it out of the garage till I start installing the new motor. Which way is best for me?
I have floor jacks, a cherry picker and jack stands.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

1) I always pull the radiator to avoid harming it,
2) I usually remove the crank pulley to avoid upper radiator support.
** I prefer to remove most of the accessories before pulling the block. I also usually remove the fuel system down to the intake, but the pics posted here show that's not required.
3) Yes,.... See pic in earlier post above ( TPI being pulled )
** remove headers before pulling & install headers AFTER block is set in place.

When installing the chain on the motor and setting the hook in place, Find the "center" link" and then place the hook about 4 chain-links BEHIND the link in the center. You might think 1 or 2 links will be enough but more is needed to get the steep angle required. If too much chain is used than it's *possible" that the boom might not reach high enough (safely). This is why I prefer to remove the Carb, TBI, TPI most of the time. ( saftey FIRST ! )

This pic shows a motor with most accessories on it being installed.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If you are pulling the motor, and will need to almost immediately move the car around, your probably best going through the top. As John has said, you can leave the suspension alone. The steering is infront of the k-member, so you can leave it. Not sure about the rest Im sure he filled ya in though.

I will say, there's been talk about the front suspension being tough to re-install. Im not sure what everyone's methods for spring removal/install are, but its not THAT bad once you get used to dealing with the springs. After that hurdle, its 3 bolts per side. Strut nut, and two control arm. Steering...yeah you have to disconnect it, but again its only popping the tie-rods out.

But if you're going to be rolling the car around and not working on the steering/suspension, then go through the top.

J.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Pulled engines in and out of my car numerous times and always went in through the top. However, my LSx engine couldn't go in that way because the LS1 engine stands on the K-member block access so I went in through the bottom. It was a pretty risky balancing act with the car (another way of saying "stupid"). Don't plan to do it again without a proper car lift.

Gregs_GSXR

I pulled the stock engine with the trans from the top, swap lsx went in from the bottom....way easier, Ill be doing and engine swaps this way, I also didnt have front clip on either, from doing a total respray, also I left the rear tires on the ground, no need to put it on ramps. Took all of 15 mins to lift the body over the engine and bolt k-member back to the car.

LastGTA

iTrader: (1)

So looks like the consensus is pull the TPI out the top, drop the LS in the bottom. Sounds good since I can still move the car and am replacing the K member anyways. Thanks guys.

Strick1

I'll be installing the LT1 through the bottom. I'll be sure to take photos along the way. I wish I had one of those cameras that could time lapse like Gettocruiser has. Thanks guys for all the comments.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Camera for most of that filming was my phone haha. It actually shoots better video and audio than my big Canon camera, so thats what I use now.

The time lapse you can do in Windows Movie maker. I sped it up 4x for most of that.

Good luck either way you do it!

J.

86White_T/A305

I did all 3 swaps from the top by myself and found it pretty easy.Keep in mind I dont have longtube headers on my ls motor.I didnt pull my hood off..just unclipped the hood shocks to allow my hood to open further.I also used and engine leveler and slid the motor/trans in in 1 shot with all the accys bolted on.Had the car a slightly off the ground and the engine hoist was about 2 inches from the front bumber.

And this last swap I had only 3 days to get the car done.Came in the shop friday morning a 305/auto,sunday night it was a lq4/t56 running.Took it home monday morning after checking for leaks.My thread for this last swap was short..I was on a time crunch and made every second count!

Key is just know which way you feel most comfortable working,prepare for the tasks at hand and take things step by step and you shouldnt run into any major snags