What do you guys think about these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA:IT&ih=016

They seem cheap, have 3" inlet and outlet with a 4.5" core.

They are 12" long, and 12" wire, meaning a 6" center to center on the inlet/outlet. I think it would fit right over the valve cover on a setup like mine, a paxton, or any setup with a 90* (curved discharge).

For the money, it looks like you buy it, a cheap pump ($75), and small radiator
(oil cooler maybe?), and a tank. Maybe $300 total for an air to water intercooler. Fill the tank with some ice and go racing. I've heard air to water intercoolers can achieve over 85% efficiency. I wonder if with an impeller change, that means I can run 10psi of boost on my 10:1 setup with full timing on pump gas. (500 rwhp)

Thoughts?

-- Joe

 

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/p...s/intercooler/


-- Joe

 

For some reason I don't think that intercooler would work very well. It looks like a fairly restrictive air path, and a very very short path where the air is in contact with the water cooled fins, 4.5" right? I can't help but think it won't drop the temperature very much at all.

Do you not have the room underhood for an air-air intercooler, or are you looking at replacing your existing intercooler?

 

looks good to me People been having good luck with those on theturboforums.com

 

Maybe you are right. Maybe not. I'd guess the pressure drop might be 1-2psi. My my buddies cobra, the air to water intercooler pulls a TON of heat out of the discharge. we're talking an intercooler efficiency of nearly 100%.. It's about the same size (vortech) as these cheap Chinese units.

This could be benneficial with the IAT/MAT spark advance table with $58/$59 as you can add some more advance as the efficiency goes up. Figure, put some ice in the tank at the track, run a little more advance.. go faster!

I ran an air-to-air intercooler in the past. The 30 feet of 3" plumbing, cutting up the front to fit was a nightmare at best. This is on a thirdgen fbody which has about 8x the room as my corvette.

 

Hmm, I can't help but think (visually here, I think best with my eyes) that it won't pull much heat out. But hey, if you've seen it work far be it for me to argue.
This looks like a pretty good setup that I should consider in the future with a TT car for my buddy.

I guess the flow path for the air is shorter, since this intercooler isn't at the front of the car (the oil cooler would be over there). I'm trying to picture the water flow. Oil cooler (or whatever), to pump, to this intercooler, right? And some type of overflow/extra tank?

 

I can't comment on this perticular unit, but the Vortech units (which are about the same size) work VERY well.

On the Vortech setups, you have the tank, a pump pushing cold water into the IC, then hot water from the IC routes into a heat exchanger mounted in the front of the car, then the cooled water goes back to the tank.

 

From Vortech's website:

"
Maxflow Power Cooler® Charge Cooler Systems Vortech's Maxflow Power Cooler is the aftermarket's first street/strip, air-to-water charge cooler system. It utilizes a closed-loop water circulation system with a front mounted heat exchanger that allows for effective street operation. Power gains up to 100 horsepower are possible depending on the application, engine, and boost level. This system provides cooler, denser air charges (discharge temperature decrease is approximately 100°F@10 PSIG), allowing more timing with less fuel required. (Greater air discharge temperature reductions are possible with higher boost levels and/or the use of ice chilled water in the reservoir).

Each system features our exclusive dual pass, high-flow, air-to-water-to-air cooler unit. The front mounted heat exchanger (cooler radiator) uses a low-restriction plate/fin design and is manufactured from high-grade aluminum. The water reservoir is roto-molded of high-strength plastic polymers for durability. Also included is a heavy-duty water pump, mounting brackets, hoses and hardware.

A reservoir which features an easy fill, wide mouth design for the use of water, ice or a combination of both is included with 1986-2004 Ford Mustang V8 systems.

Individual Power Cooler cores with welded end tanks plus multiple intake and discharge ducting options are available through special order."


So, my 2-cents, if you have an average of 100f reduction, we can come very close to achieving 100% efficiency with the blower. My powerdyne for example, at about 10psi will add about 85* to the temp of the air. This translates to between 65-72% efficiency, depending on impeller speed.

I can upgrade to a CNC impeller for about $500, which will push about 12psi of boost and be 75% efficient. So if we can run the inter/aftercooler and pull nearly all the added heat out of the discharge, at only a loss of about a 2psi pressure drop I can probably ram in 4-5 more degrees of spark advance. This could translate to another 50-75hp between the advance and the cooler air charge.

-- Joe

 

Thinking about this again, on my new Formula.

In the past few years, have any of you guys run an AWIC ?

-- Joe

 

guys on the turbo forums run those and they love them, u can get them as low as 50 bucks all the way upto around 175 on ebay depnding on the size and configuration

if my tt iroc wasnt mostly a street car and i didnt live on the edge of the desert i would have used one of those instead of the a/a intercooler im using now

 

They work very well. They are more complex that a A/A (pump,extra heat exchanger) but a Smaller A/W is usually more efficient than the same size A/A. And as it goes w ebay, some units are good, some are bad. In my experience the run of the mill ebay A/W ones give up around 600hp mark in 90 degree weather. Like 170 IAT'. As with anything it has its limits.

Its hard to explain, but the A/W is a GREAT short burst track option. You can super cool the liquid efficiently, (and yes i know you can do that with a NOS or CO2 to a A/A). It does have upkeep though. On the street the A/W ran just as good as the A/A.

This is just my opinion, but honestly always say for the birds, go with a A/W. My camaro's have ALOT more area open for flow for a A/A.

BTW if you ever go with the A/W option, keep your fluid tank as far away as possible from heat.

Whats the new Bird gonna be primarily used for?

 

Beating the crap out of...

Seeing how fast of a MPH I can get in the 1/4 on street tires, hitting the open roads of New Hampshire on the weekends. That's about it.

Thanks for the info!

-- Joe

 

With my camaro grille being open, I use a big air to air...seems to work well but dont have data to compare yet.

If you can keep the water cool on the street, it should be fine. Getting into boost often will heat that water up eventually and negate the effects but the same happens with air to airs.

I've seen 3-4 dyno pulls on a high hp high boost acura honda motor heat the air to air so bad, spraying water on it instantly sizzled off to steam. Mine has never done that on 3 pulls on the dyno or beating on it on the street or at the track. So I guess it could depend on the setup

 

yup

 

Nice!

What pump and heat exchanger did you use?

-- Joe

 

I'm using a large C&R stacked plate cooler mounted under the nose to cool the air. Pump is a meziere remote mount water pump. You can see it in front of the rad, teh thing with the alu cap on it.

The reason I'm using a C&R cooler is because I had it, and it snugs up nice under the car. If for some reason I need a larger core, I'll probably stick a universal radiator in front of the existing one.

 

Im running a cheap ebay A/W cooler on my jeep. It works good, not great, but good. Before the cooler, on a 40 degree day, my intake air temps shot up to 140+ real quick on about 8-9lbs of boost. Now, with the cooler, i did another pull in about 50degree ambient temps and IAT slowly climbed to about 85-90 degrees. So far the water in the cooling circuit hasnt gotten too heat soaked. And this is my daily driver by the way.

 

DO IT!!!!

 

I didn't realize the 03-04 mustang cobra used a similar configuration. Looks like pumps, heat exchangers, and such are plentiful.

-- Joe