No there was no oil on the floor. I will go see right now if the vavle cover pushes air though the opening. BRB

 

Dave there was no air being pushed out that I could feel at idle or free reving.

 

mandrel bent pipes have white grease inside them and smoke like hell when they first get hot, im willing to bet thats what happened to u.then add in the smoke from the freshly installed wrap and u will have tons of smoke

 

thats good then if u had air being pushed out that would lead to bad rings or a hole in a piston etc, the extra blow by would force oil out of seals and or the dipstick tube.
like i mentioned above it was prolly just grease in the pipes

 

But I could literly see some oil on the spark plug boots and such in that area. I gave the valve covers a extra 1/2 turn on that side and im going to take it for a quick spin and see if she oily again.

 

wipe everything as clean as u can get it first make sit easier to track oil leaks if u do have one

 

from what I see, no oil was leaking this time. I went for a drive and had to let off because I blew the plug I had in the back of the throttle body out. I had to plug one of those ports whilie back. Never had it blow before but it did this time..lol So i think in general im ok on the oil leaks.

I think I may have a ex leak or boost leak as its laggy but once it kicks in it holds 15psi easily, just creaps to 5psi or so then bang up to 15psi. I cant play with it anymore tonight. I will later tommmorow if I get a chance.

I really hope this was just a intermittin problem and that its fixed? Although the car is leaner and lags. So tuning needs to be done and also a second go arround check of the exhaust.

 

Off topic but where in Ohio are you?

 

Close to sandusky about 15 min away but out in the country

 

I think I have now figured out why I can not get the headers to seal up right on the block.

If you lay the header on a flat area or even on the block it will wobble. Not a ton but enough where there is no way a gasket or just torqing down the bolts will seal it up.

See what I mean here, the right side on is the leaky one. Black as you can see. But I do think that if I grind down the middle area of where the block meets the header it may work out. There is about 1/8 of material from the flange to where it would meet up on the block. Ideas? I took the headers back off and will hopefully get time this week to get it straight before saturdays race.



see how much material I have to work with. Im not sure if the header itself is cocked or if the tube ends are just off enough where it wont seal up.




See anything missing?

 

cut the flanges inbetween the ports, then when u bolt it back on it will pull everythign tight against the head.

be aware when u cut them that they may spring mor eout of line with the bolt holes and u may have to work to get them on, but once they heat cycle a few times everything will fit fine

 

actually only cut the flange between the 2 far spaced ports, leave the fmage intact between the 2 closer ports

 

Ahh ok, thats a better idea. Ive been fighting those headers all weekend tring to get them sealed up. Ill do that and hope that there not too much of a pain to get on right.

 

yeah once u cut the flange it will be alot easier for the bolts to pull that p[art of the header to the head.

i build all my headers with individual flanges just for the reason

 

Ok dave thanks for the advice as always. Im truley amazed that I made commanded boost yesterday with the leaks like that. The dammm ex is so raspy that I could barly hear the leaks unless I poped the hood. But they were clearly there on both headers on one cylinder. Only took it down the road one time.

Ill let you know how it goes as the week goes on and I get time.

 

or mill the flange flat if you have access to one

 

dont think the flange is thick enough for that, looks like hed have to take a good 1/8th offf the one end, taking that much off it would prolly warp again anyways

 

better idea would be to get a piece of 1/2 inch thich stock and make something the header can bolt down to. place the stock under the header flange inbetween the 2 cyls on the end then heat up the log and flange and use the bolts on the far end to bend it inline.

id he had a press he could do it much simpler

 

hey could take the 1/8 outa the middle one, then just file flat the 2 outers. I had to do that on a set before... that were a 1/8 out...

 

The flange is 1/4 thick steel. I guess I could try and shave down the tube ends. But im my case of simplicity I think that cutting the flange so that they are seperate from eachother would work ok. Right. I plan to do that tonight after work to the header I have off at the moment.

The only thing I worrie about is one, is the block/ex. ports completly flat? and 2 if I start to shave off the ends that I may take hours to get it right and want the ends to be smoth and flat because I want the gasket to be as effective as possible.

Just some thoughts as I think cutting the flang would be easy, and if all else fails and it shows to be too weak I can always weld it back together. Mabey just cut the one last cylinder flange since the way it wobbles, 2 cylinders already line up straight, its just one that will be off as of now.

 

Ok well I did just decide to grind on the header. I took off a good amount and used a good straight edge after I made sure the block was flat and straight.

I would say there is now about 1/36" gap now and to be honest I stoped because I was thinking that was good enough. Its not fun doing that stuff. But do you guys think that is ok? I didnt have time to try that one out but the other has the same problem so ill have to get to that one tommorow. You can hardly and I mean hardly.. see light through the gap on the one I did today when you pysically press it up against the block without a gasket. Let me know what you guys think. Took me a good 45 min to get that one in that good of shape. Im getting tired of taking them off and putting them back on and race day is this saturday, I havent got to even tune the car right yet with the headers...

And the flange is 3/8th not 1/4 like I assumed.

 

Thats fine. Just make sure you torque then down evenly, And use a good gasket. After a few heat cycles it should be ok.

Are your cylinders running correctly? Did you check temps of each cyl to make sure you got no oddball temp spikes. Its realy difficult to warp cast material that bad unless you got some wicked heat cycles. Especially with clamping force on it.

 

I didnt warp them, they were some log headers that a guy made up. So im guessing they may have warped from the welding? As this was the first time they were ever used and they were leaky/warped from day one when I put them on. I was having high hopes that I could tw them down with plenty of gasket but that was a dumb idea as it was a waste of time.

Are you suppose to tq headers down from the middle out or from one side to another?

 

middle out. i hand tighten them, i dont use a tq wrench. I had to grind down my headers like yours. I had ALOT more material to take off though. Used a Grinder to take out the bulk. And then hand filed to make it flat. Took about 4 hours on one side. But i could install w no gasket if i wanted. The other side i only did like 45 mins grinding. Realized that i was wasting so much time filing things down.

 

Yea I dont use a tq wrench either, theres no way I could ever fit one in there.

I didnt file it down yet to get it flatter mainly because I ran out of time tonight.

Thanks

 

I use a long belt sander to true up flanges, after welding.

There are other things I do with headers that make them seal easier, but log manifolds they flex and move differently than tubular headers.

 

logs tend to move alot less but it really depends on how they are welded and the person welding them.

hell my tubular headers moved a good inch on the driver side rear flange cause i couldnt weld it up with it bolted to a head, had to take it off and weld it on the bench to get all the way around the tubes in 2 spots, now that was a pain in the *** to get lined back up with the port on the head .

once i got it on though and heat cycled the engine a few times and removed the headers it was perfect


how did u make out with yours fast?

 

I am going to throw the custom AC delete box w/blower and wiring up on the boards for $25.00, connect four wires and you have all four speeds for heat. Lemme know if your interested...

 

I just removed the air valve the other day and some of the plumming up to the firewall. So for now im not to interested in heat. I just need to block that hole off when I get some time. Thanks though Rob! I thought you sold that to dave a few months back??

On this thread though it may stall out for a little bit. No time to work on the car as im looking into buying a house since rent is a PITA anymore and its just tireing. Ill keep you guys up to date and may get some time to get it back running in the next few weeks.

@ dave. I got the passenger side all sealed up perfect, header and the flange to the x over the other night. I didnt get the drivers header back on yet. The main reson I was ticked off and stoped was 1. because I noticed that one rotor has a nice crack in it that you can see=$$ and then 2. I also noticed that the alky line that goes into the intake rubbed a hole in the tube and leaks ever so much. So that needs to be fixed. A question though is can those quick connectors be used again or do I have to buy new ones for the alky lines? I have plenty of line left to use.

 

u can reuse them, crack in the rotor?

 

Yea im about to get under the car, i look over and I see a crack on the rotor. Just enough where you can clearly see it and feel it. Im luck I noticed it now then later on down the road going 120mph.... Those rotors are about 8 years old though

How ya get the hose out of those quick adapter thing? Just yank?? Ive never had them before.

 

oh brake rotor , i thought u meant the turbo turbine or comrpessor wheel.

u know the lil plastic piece the hose slides into u either push it in or pull that out of the fitting to release the hose

 

btw new rotors are only 25 bucks

 

I know 26 bucks at AZ. Im just a tight wad sometimes. Ill get them this weekend

Ok on the hose release. Thanks!

 

Still working on the exhasut but did start it up and take it down the street till i poped a flange gasket. Will get that set up right asap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-gcO...ature=youtu.be

 

Well once again I have rethought what im doing here with the exhaust.

What I plan to do is to literly take the heads off, get out the one bolt that i couldnt get out. That is really causeing me a issue. Im not sure how long its gonna take but since im taking one head off im just going to take them both off to see what the pistons look like since I havent since before the turbo. I pray that it looks the same as before..

I doubt theres a way to get the heads off, get the bolt out, make sure the headers fit right, then put it all back together in 2 weeks before the next race but im going to try my hardest. I work way to much at the moment but you guys know how that goes.

Another issue is that the FP is down again casuing leaness, and hight Injec DC, which im sure is the same problem I had before, the hose between the fuel pump and the assemble. Im not sure why this keeps happening where the hose will split there as its fuel line hose. Im not positive this is the issue but am about 99% sure it is.

 

Well I had a hr or so, so I got one head off and really that other would have been off in just a few more min but i ran out of time.

I was actually surprised to see the engine look about the same after all those miles of boost and my learning curve on tuning. The lil V6 seems to be ok.

Heres some pics, does everything look normal? You guys know more then me. I will say that the pistons look fine and actually the tops are much cleaner then before. Thats probley the alky working there. No scratches in the walls, piston tops are smooth also. Pushrods are good(cam looks good)

I will EDIT this and add a video in a bit as I heard some sounds that I am not sure are normal or not. Thanks for the tips. Amazing that I got the engine down to that in really 1 1/2 hrs. Ive taken this damm thing apart 3 times now in one year...lol

#2 cyl


Cyl 2,4,6



drivers sd. head. Look at the colors of the Intake valves is that normal? They seem smooth not notches but the colors are dif then I remember.



The runs look as clean as when I ported them last winter, still carbon free and look normal to me.


EDIT:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqKQV...ature=youtu.be Heres the video. Is that normal, or bad valve stem seals or something, ever last cylender seems to do it but yet i measure 147-152psi through each cyl durring comp tests.

 

I wonder if some Teflon Braided line would work. Just hose clamp it on (don't use AN fittings). It has high burst strength and is on the stiff side to stay in place.

Seems the standard in-tank hose isn't doing the job. I recall another thread on here where the in-tank hose was plastic like. And cold flowed out from under the clamps and started leaking.

RBob.

 

yeah u cannot use standard high presure fuel line in the tank, when u submerse standard fi fuelline it swells up and gets soft and will split or leak around the clamps.

u need to get submersible fuel line, good luck finding some though there isnt a single parts store in my area that carries it, ive had better luck using transmission line hose then fi hose. it goes bad but it seems to last 2-3x longer then normal hose

the problem is the hose still deteriorates and u get lil black particals sucked up in the fuel system

search ebay for gates submersible hose, i think theres a few ppl selling the correct hose on ebay


the discoloration of the ex valves is from the alky working along with high back presures from ur old ex system, pop out the ex valves and make sure they are all stright, with that kind of heat i wouldnt be surprised if any of them are warped/bent slightly. with thew new header setup u have it shouldnt be as hard on the ex valves as what u had before


while u have the heads of deshroud the valves in the chamber this will also help, i can post pictures for u if needed

cant watch the videos right now but ill check them out later tongiht

 

watched the video , that hissing sound is normal it just the air going past the valves

 

Ill take out the valves then and make sure there ok. Anything else I should check while the heads are off?? How long would you say it took you to deshroud the chambers? Im tight on time, i am almost thinking of just taking my time though and just have it up annd going again in a month or so. Ill miss out on alot of racing but i want it to be done right.

Deshrouded valves=less compression, better flow, less risk of detination because of the compression right. Link a few pics if you can dave. I know the basicas of how to do it but pics always help alot.

I am using tranny line for the fuel pump at least thats what I thought it was. Id have to look to be certain. its not that the line is falling apart its just that there will be a slit in it. Mabey im over tightening it with the clamp? IDK. I didnt get time to look in the tank to see if that was indeed the problem again, but im pretty sure it is.

 

deshrouding only takes a few mins a chamber basically u lay th eheadgasket on the head and mark the ring with amarker then u grind the side of the chamber nexto the valve back to the line

ill post some pics soon

and it will barley lower ur compression at most maybe x.1

 

this isnt a v6 head but it will give u an idea my photobucket is being a pita atm

 

here ya go this is a 3.1 head

u can see how much material u can remove oon the intake side

and after

ex valve before deshrouding

and after







if u anna get really hi tech polish the entire chamber when ur done heres the start of a chamber i polished


u can see how it was deshrouded in this pic

 

Is polishing them really help that much dave? I never even touched the chambers before when I ported the heads. I might as well just deshroud them. Every little bit help im sure.

 

deshrouding is worth it for sure.

polishing reflects heat away from the cyl head, it also eliminates hotspots, this helps with controling detonation.it also stop carbon from sticking to the chamber

there are benifits to polishing as u can see but its upto u if u wanna spend the time to do it, hell if u want try polishing one chanber first and see how long it takes u, sanding rolls and white grinding stones work really well.

be sure to leave the valves in so u dont nick the valve seats

 

bump , any updates fast?

 

Yea dave, The bolts are out of the heads, I got the flanges on the headers choped so there single now.

On sunday I will be putting the whole car back together. I didnt have time to work the heads. Lots of over time this week. I have a point race i must go to next weekend so im pressed for time.

But I do hope to have the car back in one piece and running by either sun or monday after work. Ill let ya know how it goes and if I ran into problems.

Lube the head bolts when installing or not?? I totaly forgot.. and also the tq numbers on them. I dont want to have my gasket leak when I start pushing 15-17psi again. Thanks man.

 

no lube on the threads at all , only under the head of the bolt were it hits the head.

of the top of my head 65#'s + 90* sounds right but dbl check that number, and dont forget to use new head bolts

take the 30 mins to deshroud the valves it will make a big improvement

 

From the '92 FSM: apply sealant to the bolt threads, torque to 40 ft/lbs, rotate an additional 90* (1/4 turn).

The torque sequence is from center out in a circular pattern. It is likely best to torque the bolts in steps, 20 ft/lb on all, then 40 ft/lb on all, then the additional 1/4 turn.

RBob.