crank down the head bolts, they won't break. I've reused head bolts on these engines several times.

It sounds like you have ring issues in cyl 6, like I've suspected since you had this latest issue show up.

 

yeah numbers will be higher cause of no intake , now retest the other cyls and see what numbers they pull ( the ones that were originally good )


can u get the oil pan off ? push number 6 out of the hole get a ball hone rough up the cyl a lil drop a new set of rings on number 6 and reaseemble for the time being

actually never mind that cause u have head issues as well , i would drop the intake back on to make the readings back to normal, if cyls 2&4 read correct u know the other head has issues

i still dont understand how u killed the rings unless u happened to fuel wash that cyl

 

Ok Im going to go back out and play with it some more But it looks grim.

Dave its probly down for the year and the time and effort that I would have to do in order to get the pan off, hone it out, put a new ring in it, wouldnt be worth rushing for this year since, keep in mind, ive never gotten that far "into a motor"

 

150-155 Psi on the whole other bank actually with the wrong head, the one from the drivers side that was in question. I assembled it the other day with just lashing the vavles and cleaning up the carbon on the ex valves. I put oil into one and went from 150 to 165 psi on specifically #1

Back to the driver side, cranked the head down to 50 ft/lbs. Thats as much as I trust those bolts just because I probly over tightened them the last time they were on cranking to 80 IIRC. When I did the headers a month ago.

I netted 120-125 psi on 2 tries on that #6. 135 Psi with a fresh shot of oil. I left it at the 135psi and will check on it in a bit and see how much leaks by. But the thing is I have oil in there and theres no way to get it out unless I take the head off so that will probly skew the result.

Also 150-155 Psi on cy #2 #4. This time arround.

How long will that oil in there skew my reading??

 

put the intake back on , u need true readings give the oil about 1 hour to leak past the rings

heres the thing if u dont tear down the engine we will never know the cause, need to look at the pistion for a broken ring land cracked ring etc , if the ring cracked its a simple fix

when building aboosted motor the top ring gap needs to be opened up which could be the cause of ur issue looking at the piston will tell u if that cyl over heated or whatnot

even if u get a jy motor ur going to have to tear it down for inspection so practive on ur possibly already wounded engine is the best thing to do

 

is my oil pan somewhat "easy" to get off with the engine in the car or is basically impossible for me a "beginner"

Ill let the car sit for the night and tommorow it will be fine. For the readings.

The only thing that intrest me is the compression went up as I tq/ed the heads down more. I didnt change anything but that and gained 35 psi roughly.

Don't get me wrong dave I like my motor and would like to keep it 112K miles on it, i know some are hard miles but a 200k mile J/Y motor may be a issue.

The thing Im getting at is it just easier to pull this motor and check it out with a microscope because Im in no rush to get it running?????????????

I just dumped a good 350 bucks into my daily driver just because this one is down and I trust my trusty 3.8L buick to keep me on the road.

 

This https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...e-oil-pan.html Would seem much easier with the engine out of the car, at least thats what im thinking.

 

undue the motor mount bolts and lift the engine up with a floor jack and blocks of wood under the crank balancer. u need to remove the dizzy to get the engine up high enough to get the pan out tq the headbolts to spec if compression goes up even more i suspect u had a blown head gasket but cyl 6 is deff a lil low

 

this is the piston out of my 2.8 with 200k miles ,100 k of those was boosted
this was my original engine


and the bottom of the engine after 200k

 

You never had a ring/blow by issue?? WTF is with my luck.


Well I will get to it tommorow. The only reason I though it was starting to look like a heasd gasket is because of the PSI jumping up 30 psi just from tighting it down more.

But Ill first check the compression tommorow, tighten the head down 10 more ft lbs at the most(then take a reading), put the intake on(take a reading), see what the difference is with the PSI. Then if its still bad dave im going to just pull the motor and start to work on her.

Ill let you know now, you think I ask alot of questions...lmao.. what till the engine comes out if it does.

No sence in me just re ringing that one ring, when I could really make sure every thing is sound in the engine right? Work those heads more, get the stiffer springs, and so on. And fix any issues that may be wrong. Not spend a crap load if possible but make sure that its not gonna have issues right out of the gate. Thankfully most of the parts I already have or would buy can just be swaped to another motor...lmfao

YOU know the thing that really ticks me off, is I can still clearly see the cross hash marks on all of the damm cylinders. There clear as day. Its irritating.

 

i never had blowby issues , only when i built my 3.1 did i have issues until the rings seated

lets see what the tests say tommorow
rebuilding what u currently have will prolly be cheapest , ill take a look around for u for over sized pistions and stuff though .

i do have a set .030 over plasma moly rings and kb coated pistions for a 3.4 here , same stuff i used in my 3.1

 

Is a 3.4L a bored or stroked version of the 3.1L?? .030 over? Bored version right?

Oh I forgot to mention something that may play with the effect of my results. I re-used those head gaskets... No one parts store arround here had them in stock. Litetly 6 parts stores and no head gaskets so they will be in on tuesday. I did the test anyways hoping it was the head issues. I thought I added that on the first post but realized i didnt.

Checked that cy #6 and its still at 130psi 45 minuets later, hasent moved but 5psi since the last test with a slight shot of oil, if that means anything.

 

If you need to build a new motor, i've got a +.030 3.1 block in good shape!! crank, flex plate, and heads too, for that matter.

 

not exactly cheap but they do come with moly rings
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Piston-and-R...sories&vxp=mtr

ill keep looking i got my piston set for 35$'s my rings did cost 150 bucks though so that may actually not be a bad deal

 

You need to live closer!!! How about that Tq Convert, or your rear end?? LOL

What are moly rings and why are they so good? I take it those pistons arent forged and that prob cost a ****-ton for forged stuff!

Also what does hypereutectic mean??

 

that might be a good deal for fast would save him a good bit on machine work

any idea what the actual finished bore size is on that 3.1?

 

3.4 = .120 over bore on a 3.1

wait for new gaskets fast
also shipping would prolly only be 75 bucks for him to ship u that stuff

 

moly rinsg have well a moly coating on them they seal up faster and are better all around rings

cast iron rings are brittle and crack and are usually what comes stock
forged slugs are about 125$ a pop , my custom 3.0 pistons were 150 bucks a pop iirc

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston

 

Thanks dave for the links, ill read up on the stuff so I dont keep asking somewhat dumb q's

After the new HG's are on the block Ill let you know what happends.

Am91camaro, ill keep you in mind if the rings are shot in my engine.

 

I can measure the block tomorrow if you really wanna know. They were actually .75mm over pistons since its all metric. That works out to basically .0295". I mic'd it a while back to make sure the bores were still round and they were. But I don't remember the actual measurement. If I measure it tomorrow, itll only be with calipers. All of my other measuring tools are at work.
Fast, the convertor and tranny and rear end are still in the car and are staying there for my next build!! I don't know when it'll be but, it will be good whenever it happens!

PS. move to FL. our tracks are open more than a few months.

 

HypOreutetric seem to be much better? For detination and not being brittle but they seem to not stay the same shape very well. Piston slap when cold.. Any thoughts on that? The hypEreutetrci ones seem to be suspectibe to craking and spark knock probmens? But remain the close to the same size, not expanding.

 

I just bought my first house.. near toledo ohio..lol Cant move now, im in debt to my eyes with a morgage for the next xx years. Although tracks open so long sounds nice. And its always hot down there good for my HVAC skill Just kidding though.

But measure it if you can man and let me know what you come up with. Thanks!

 

hey man post up ics of that slick intake u made i always loved that thing

hypers are just fine and they are not brittle they are more forgiving to detonation then forged or striaght cast , they also dont expand as much as forged or stright cast so u can run them tighter int he bore for les piston rock and a better seal

besdies hypers are the only thing ur going to find , the stockers are mahle hypers btw on the 2.8's they have a steel reinforcement in the top of the pistion

thos epistions i linked u to have a lower compression then stock, most rebuilders kits are liek that to take account for the head being cut and or the block being decked so if u do end up building an engine with those i would have the block decked, and the heads cleaned up and get compression mack in the 9.2-1 range
withotu any decking or head cutting those pistons are 8.9-1

 

This intake? Make sure your pistons don't look like this...

 

thats the one , if his compression dosent come up in #6 i fear thats what his piston does look like

i find it funny that compression did come up on that whole bank though , so i really cant tell if he has a ring issue or not

u ever going to get that 3.4 turbo build done on ur car ?

 

and again, this one? too bad the block and all is bare... I've got most of the parts but not the time or money to finish it for now. I'm married and have a baby so the car is just sitting. some day, though...

 

that would be the one man its been what about 5 years now?lol i hear ya we all have the never ending or time/money to work on projects

 

yeah, its probably been atleast 5 yrs. been so long I forgot I had mentioned it on here before.

 

I got some new head bolts and gaskets but. Couldn't put them on today. Long story short I was helping a friend and got my finger tip chopped. Hurts like hellll and had to go to the hospital to get her fixed up.

But I did put the intake on prior this morning and re checked all the compression again with the old gasket . 145-155 in all the cylinders except 6 which was at roughly 130.

I hope my finger is in ok shape in the next few days to try the fresh gaskets and determine if that was the issue.

Oh and that 6 cylinder held to 120 after 6 hours from 130 at the beginning so it didn't leak by too much although I'm not sure what would be good anyways

 

well the compression test is looking better and better

the numbers dont have to be equal on all 6 holes , they just need to be +/- 10% of each other

 

updates???????????

 

I had to work quite a bit of OT this week, so no time for the car dave. Which Sux.

There no racing left for the year anyways, only this weekend then fun ford weekend the next and its over up here.

I just bought a house and its suppose to close on the 25th which right after I will move in. What im thinking is just to wait till then, get the car to the new garage. And litlery take the whole motor out and rebuild it Hone it and what ever else it needs. Dave as days went on that compression is back to where it was. Making me think that the oil took longer then I thought to get out of the cylinder rings.

Ideas here? Input on what you guys would sugest. Im in a apprentership in my local union so in a few weeks time will be short to work on the car, just weekends if im lucky. I can make some time but it wont be anything like when I tossed that turbo kit together in the first place when it comes to time.

 

pull it apart and we will see just went bad

 

Thats the plan.

 

Let's start entertaining a parts list. The turbo is taken care of al ready as for what I plan to buy.

 

depends on what condition the block is in really

but for sure u will be in for
gasket set = 250 $'s
piston rings = 100 bucks
good bearings( KING BEARINGS) = 100 BUCKS
TIMING CHAIN = ????????
272 cam swap =???????????

 

just a bit of advice...

since youre in the trades you may want to consider setting some loot aside for the winter. cant tell you how many times i had wild busy summers and nothing all winter, also part of the reason the blazer has been collecting dust this whole time. i was a tile setter for 10 years and only had 2 winters with less than a month of being laid off. you should be safe since youre an apprentice, cheaper labor lol.

on the upshot, if the 3.1 is shot roll on over to pull a part and snag a couple of 3.4's. they are plentiful and cheap there.

 

i agree just a swap to a 3.4 will net a 25-50 hp increase alone

 

Yeah 3.4 did a bit of reading Mark, my z34 was rated at like 220hp stock lol! Gotta love DOHC.

 

Your 3.4L is completly different then mind bud. Our 3.4L are rated at 160Hp/200Tq IIRC.

Yea Joe, I am cheep labor considering what my Journeyman I work for makes... 40 bucks a hour. Im less then half of that..lmao. Your right though on saving up some cash. I have been saving a nice little chunk though for just the car. Then the rest of the savings is just in case money as a house and bills are much more important then the camaro.

I think the blk may be ok but we will see I guess. In either event, even if I do have to get another block I would think it still would be safer to rebuild the thing bue it a 3.1 or 3.4L. Those hypoherteric pistons and moly rings look like those would be a good investment into either engines let along the basic bearings and such.

My timing chain set has about 2k or so miles on it so that should be something I can reuse, and the cam I could reuse although a 272 grind does sound appeling.. I may just go J/Y shopping and snag a 3.4L for the hell of it anyways since I know I could pick one up dirt cheep anyways(at least the short block)

 

i would pick up a complete 3.4 and rebuild that, if u do that u swpould still tear down the 3.1 to see what went wrong first

if u could pick up a great condition 3.4 u could reuse the stock pistons and rering it then just install the new bearings . with that new turbo i would deff go a lil larger on the cam


it all dpeends on what condition u can get a 3.4 out of the junkyard and for how much. if u cant get one out of the junkyard cheap and i mean cheap 100-150 bucks just rebuild the 3.1, the power u lose by not going up in displacement u can gain back by adding an additional 2-3 psi of boost

 

Yea as the more I think If the current 3.1L isnt wounded too bad, it would cost less to just work on that engine. I do want to add the hypo pistons and moly rings regardless if its on my current engine or a 3.4L. The thought of taking the engine out of the car and not going through it and rebuilding certaint areas just doest jive with me.

I called arround after work just to see if there were any 3.4L's out arround my area(toledo, columbus.. exc.) the best canidate was one for 200 bucks that supposidly had 120k miles on it in a wrecked camaro(rear ended). I just cant see picking up a used motor and possibly being in the same situation that im in with my current one.

By the quick look at my cylinder walls I would bet to say that my cylinders can be lightly honed and then rebuild? But I know I need to tear her down to be sure, im just thinking and planning here guys on what to do.

Another question is this. I know some ppl that can rebuild it for me as the only thing that i know how to rebuild easily and "know what im doing" is Dirt bikes, mainly 2 stroke beasts...LOL. from when I use to race them when I was younger. So how hard is it really to do?? Any guidence? All I know is how to set the ring gap(file the rings)but this was on a SBC and am not positive if each application is different or even if I have to do something like that. Did this a few times helping a friend. Remember im a beginner here. The reason I bring this up is if I fork over about 300-400 bucks I can get a pro engine builder to just do it for me, but I will say im one for doing it on my own if I feel I can "successfully".

Was that link you showed me dave a good place to remember for the piston/ring kit if it comes to that??

What if the cylinders just need lightly honed? 3.1L kit?

Whats the rate to bore out a block anyways. Just a guess? If it needed it then go the 3.4L. Can by block be bored that big safely? Is my block basically the same cast as the 3.4L thats just bored out a tad correct?

Thanks for the help guys as always.

 

the 3.4 is a different block, that said some 92 blocks can be bored to .120 over which would make it a standard 3.4 bore

as far as a light hone on ur current block it depends on the actual bore size, and size of the piston . if the bore is out of spec already and u hone it u make the bore biiger, then the piston to wall clearance goes up and u get piston slap/rock and bad ring sealing

most auto machince shops charge 50-100 bucks for hottank and cleaning block/install cam bearings and another 100 for bore and hone

if u need to buy pistons for the 3.1 and have it overbored u are much betteroff buying a jy 3.4 and boring that motor, the increased displacement will be well worth the extra lil bit of money spent to get the 3.4

if the 3.1 can be rehoned to bring back cyl wall finish without needing new pistons then reringing the 3.1 will be the most cost effective thing to do


no mater what u do ur current heads need machine work, finish deshrouding the chambers and get new ex valves and take the heads to the machine shop for a 3 angle valve job there is no getting around this ur current heads have to have a valve job done they are worn out

the link i have u to the pistons n rings is fine but do not order any internal engine parts till u have the 3.1 torn down and looked at

and yes u can build the v6 urself its not hard

 

Regardless of the engine I use I can start working on those heads. Are there any springs that stick out in your mind and also I have looked at some valves but the price is all over from five bucks to 20bucks per ex valve.

I want to at least start toying with the chambers this weekend off possible and might as well get them in order since ther back off the car.

 

these are like the ones I ran on my motor. z28 springs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Z28-Styl...38590f&vxp=mtr

 

Thanks for the link.

The seat pressure is 110 on those. Is that a good? Im not sure what spring is good enough to eliminate any valve float but not be too much to wear the valve train.

Im reving roughly 6k rpms at shifts. I plan to make a buy on some valve springs and ex valves at somepont this weekend.

 

thos eare old school performance springs and would work well but way over kill for the 260 cam

are u going to step up the cam this year?
u will be turning alot more then 6k rpms this year with the new motor ill show u what oiling mods and bearing clearances to use to make this thing live reliably around 7500 rpms.

that big turbo is going to want some rpm, and if u swap to the th350 u wont have any problems doing it

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-981-16/

 

Ok thanks for the link on the springs. Ill be ordering springs retainers and locks tommorow. Would those work for the 260 and 272 grind cam?

Ive thought of upping the cam size but am scared of turning those high of rpms with the stock bottom end.