Made 2 hits at the track. Not what I expected.

First pass 13.40 and a 13.47. What was unexpected was the MPH. 105.9 and a wopping 106.71 MPH on the slower pass.

There might still be a leak somewhere but I know it spools faster MPH wise on the street then at the track???

I do have to say I swear that the car spools up faster with the street tires on the road if I actually hook. I know the slicks are 2 inches taller so im not sure how that is hurting me but even when I have a boosted start my 60ft times just wont go lower. I picked up 25Mph from the 1/8 mile to the 1/4 mile.

Also watch this video and please tell me what the helll can that be. I noticed it but yet the car still runs basically perfect? Any ideas or what should I look at. I can hear it on the drivers side more and seems to go away when reved, or at least its just quieter then the exhaust. I didnt get under the car i just parked it so im unsure if its from the drivetrain. But seems to be on the drivers side valve area...mabey? Thanks!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO9bh...ature=youtu.be

 

holy crap man with a sloud as that is it should be easy to find, check the tq converter bolts and flexplate bolts, also make sure the flexplate aint cracked.

also remove the belt and start the engine and see if it still makes noise, removing the belt will eliminate the possibly of alt power steering pump atc

also check play on the turbo

 

x2 on trying it with no belt. My previous experience with loose converter bolts was that it would sound like a rod knock.
I'd suspect something like one of the accesories. Take a close look at the AC clutch. also how old is your timing chain?

 

i deff agree on the rod knock sound form loose converter bolts as ive had it happen to me, these v6 motors have a really weak flex plate though and they tend to crack from the center out or around the center and make the same sort of noise.

i drove my car 60 miles home to my shop with my flexplate like this


see that lil piece broken off outwards that was the only thing that allowed the starter to work or for the car to move , when i unbolted the trans and slid it back the flexplate hit the ground and i couldnt belive it

 

and there probably isnt a stronger aftermarket flexplate, is there? we should get a group together to have a chromoly steel flexplate made. i know some of the TR guys have RAM make one, just send in a spare one laying around. id be interested in a group buy type dealeo

 

now there isnt and to be honest there arent enough ppl who need stronger flexplates to make it worth while
i just started reinforcing my own basically some 1/8th inch or 1/4 inch roundstock rolled into a perfect ring then welded down around the center were it always breaks on both sides stops its from breaking.

one of these days i may start to offer reinforced stock units for ppl if the need ever gets high enough

u have to center the ring exactly to not throw off the balance, the bettwe way to do it is to weld it then have it rebalanced, but at the time i had the proper tools to make sure it was dead perfect without having to rebalance

 

im going to ask some of the folks in LV Buicks how much it cost them to have a stronger flexplate made. i dont have the resources to do what you did lol

 

i have another trick any welding shop can do, get some steel an washers and put them over the flexplate to cr4ank bolt holes and have them tig welded on. this also reinforces it, just not as much as my method.

basically they crack right outside the mounting holes so washers that are wider then that area will help strenghten it

 

OK after work I will look through the car and see the issue.

Its not the turbo i know that the play is fine and normal. Theres no a/c on the car. Just alt, PS, and water pump. The timing set is about 2k miles old.

So i will take off the belt and see if it still does it, which im 99.9% sure. I can literly hear it from the rear drivers side of the engine.

Dave the first thing I though of was the flex plate from seeing the pics of yours in the past. Ill take the dust cover off and inspect it. Dammm man, its always something. Well at least I didnt really damage the car to the point that it cant drive.

 

if u pull the belt and check the flexplate and its not either of those its time to pull a va;lve cover.

the motor reved up pretty clean but it didnt sound right as the rpms came back down
that ringing bell sound deff sounds like the flexplate though,do u have any loose ex clamps down on the pipe anywere

could also be in the converter

 

Cant believe this, I checked the flex plate and converter. Absolutly no issues there. So I pulled a valve cover, no issues there. Then finally just took the belt off and wala!! Its gone. I should have checked that first I suppose. Oh well.

It is the back bracket(the steel one) on the PS pump. Theres a bolt that was loose and the force was just enought to rattle the nut and bolt in the bracket. No damage just needs tighented down again.

 

Good that you found it. I had a similar problem with my turbo tpi setup. Pulled the belt & still had a tick at idle. Check the flywheel and all was good. Checked the harmonic balancer and it looked fine. Still had a tick so I decided to run it until it broke.

Check it 2 weeks later when it was louder. This time I could see the rubber falling out of the balancer. 26 yr old balancer failed.

 

Well I was relieved that it was something so simple.

Looking at the exact same tune and PSI Im seeing that at 30 mph on the street tires im at 9-10 psi on all recent logs with the current tune. On the data logg with the slicks last night i managaed a sad 7-8psi at 26Mph and I say that because the slicks are 2 inches taller and throw the speedo off. The car is a dogg of the line and it seems like no matter what I do with those big tires and only 3.23's ill never get sub 2 second 60 ft times no matter how hard I boost the launch.

Im curious on how much tire really effects a car. (Example) My lil street tires with 3.23's but then when the slicks are on its more like a 2.73 in relation when the radius of the tire is that much bigger.


I would love to know if I could hook with street tires...lol Doubtfull.

 

lol atleast it wa something stupid, u shoudl deff be using a 26inch tall tire with ur 3:23's

u can make up for the taller tire with more boost on the launch but i dont see u getting there without the 2 step.

depending on the condition of the et streets u have i would a either buy a 2 step if the tires will last threw next season
or b
buy a hoosier 26x9x15 slick for next year, real slicks not dot drag radials or dot slicks.
reason i say this is that as u get faster the car will be harder to hook on a dot 9inch wide tire
or c if the et streets are still good find a used rear with a posi and 3.42's or 3.73's


one of ur biggest issues is ur peg leg rear its going to be hard to achive 1.8 60's even 1.9's on the peg leg rear.

if ur open to a mini spool and or welding the spiders in ur current rear can walk u step by step into a gear swap in ur current rear without any special tools

brand new gear set is about 120 bucks
the install kit ( bearings seals and shims is another 100 bucks)


when u have ime this week pull the intercooler out and put a piece of 2.5 pipe in its place then go do some puls on the street and se ehow far the tune is off.

i bet that tiny core is only good for about 250ish hp worth of airflow, and with the meth injection u dont need the intercooler right now specially since its not ur daily driver and ur not driving the thing for hours at a time

 

Im not sure what to do with the rear yet dave. Basically in about 3 months the cars getting torn down and repiped a bit and some other things too that im thinking of, one being a different rear.

I made it to the track tonight but didnt have the slicks on hand so made some passes on the street tires. It was rice burner weekend over there so I got to see a crap load of turboed 4 bangers and was pretty impressed.

It did fairly well and went 13.60-13.70"s with amazing 106+mph trap speeds. I launched easy arround 2-2300rpms. The spooling is just weird its fast to start then takes a minuet then hits hard. 60ft times are a joke on street tires but even on the slicks I could only manage 2.05-2.15 which is just plain old bad.

There a datalogg to if ya wana look at it. Look at the boost spool up and tell me what you guys thing. It hits hard but yet starts to spool instantly but takes a second to kick in full.. I sure hope its not a drivetrain issue, mainly the 1/2 gear plates? Im not a expert at 700r's so im not sure how the plates are set up in there. I dont even see the rpms drop between 1/2 gear barly at all. And if it is the Tq converter where the HEL$ can I even get one for a decent price that will last??

Here a slip car 191. As you can imagin a monster half way down the track. Keep in mind this is a street tire run here.

 

try a lil less ae , soon as the motor leaned out when the ae shut off the turbo spooled hard , it was lazy with the really rich afr from ae

also ur about a half point rich in 3rd gear on the afrs

converter looks to be done shift 1-2 was 5,600 rpm **** with rpm drop of only 500 rpm

2-3 shift was 6k with a drop of almost 1,000 rpm


the bigger drop is from the loss of tq due to the overly rich afr

that cheap converter just isnt going to cut it at the power levels ur at


this is a toy right u dont have to daily drive this thing at all ?

my suggestion is speedway motors trans adapter and a th350 trans and converter

a good converter is going to run u 5-600 bucks for the v6 700r4

with the th350 u can even get a trans brakeand full manual valve body cheap cheap

 

Yea its just a toy not a daily driver. As long as its somewhat streetable its fine with me. Im interested in the trans swap. What can ya tell me as I didnt know I could even swap them that easy.

I cant try some less AE and smooth out the afr's but the drop in Rpm's is just horrible. Im guessing this could also delay my spool up a bit also?

 

This dave?? http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevy-...ates,3280.html

Also theres is so many Tq converts for those trans that I wouldnt know what was a good convert for a good price. Any helpfull links? Thanks again man,

What else would I need to make it work? Would a wider 90* 700R4 off a V8 be a option or is a 350 the way to go? A V8 700r4 just seems like it would be alot easier to bolt up, unless the TH350 wouldnt be hard to mount the Tq arm such.

 

With the stock transmission at a minimum should put in larger boost valves. This is both the 1/2 and the main valve. They all go into the same location in the pump. Accessed under the pan.

Can also swap the servo out for the standard V8 version. Should be able to get one cheap from someone that upgraded to the 'Vette servo. I don't recommend the 'vette servo as I had shift timing issues with it.

Not sure how you are launching/driving, but should at least put the stick in the 2nd position for launching. This increases the line pressure. Then move the stick to 3rd/drive shortly before it will do the 2-3 shift.

On a 1-2 shift all the transmission does is to apply the band.

For a TH350, the 9" tail housing length is the same as the 700R4. There are also 6" and 12" tail housings for the TH350.

RBob.

 

A friend that recently went to a powerglide has a TH350 for sale. 300 bucks. I know it comes with the shifter and I believe it has a full man. valve body in it. Not sure yet if he has a converter with it, but i know he was making 11 second passes with no issues as its built up a little on the inside. Im just concerned how hard it will be to fit the trans on my car and will it be a pita to get it right. I will get more info on the trans today, but i dont wana make a move till I know that it will be somewhat simple to get it to work on my car. The trans this car was in was a 1984 Camaro. So im not sure how the whole set up was, what tailshaft he had in there but I will contact him and find out more details.

Rbob the main problem is that I dont want to spend 600 bucks on a converter as I know im blowing through it again. The aftermarket stink for 60* 700R4's. Its either buy a 100 dollar one or a 500-600 dollar one. No middle ground.

I will try the 2nd gear start though and see if that will get me by as theres only 2 more points races that I have to make passes on.

 

IMO, different tranny's and gears will do nothing, your blowing through the converter...

 

Rob the main reason I want a different trans is because of the Tq converter. I cant see spending 600 bucks on a Tq converter for the 60* trans. I know im pushing though that convert. but unless i can find one for the 300-400 range, this TH350 has a 3k stall, 9inch tailshaft and a shift kit and full manual valve body and trans brake if I want that also. 300 bucks total since he put a glide in the car and this has been taking up space in his garage for 6 months. So im to the point that i just need to figure out how exactly to install it correctly and make sure it will work the way i want, before I make any rash decisions.

 

You don't understand what I am saying, you get what you pay for, and the converter companies know this which is why they can afford to jack up the price. Just because a converter is stalled accordingly does not make it the correct converter for a boosted application because it is stalled for 3000-RPM. You can go with a Turbo-350, but your still going to need to spend the money where it counts, there is simply no way around it. I am running a 700R4 with my application, and with my setup I have no choice but to go with an $800 dollar Vigilante converter just like the Buick guys, there is no way around it for me, and if you try to go the cheap route you are just masking the problem. I told you in my own thread that you need to focus on your rear gearing with that 700R4. My buddy Shawn wanted 3.73's desperately a few years back for his TTA running the 200R4, but in doing so he kept blowing through the gears at full throttle. Went back to the 3.27's and he was back to pulling 1.5x sixty foots. I am not planning on running 3.42's with my 700R4, I am bringing down to 3.08's. You can go the Turbo-350 route if you choose to, though, cuz it's obviously your car...

 

Well the issue is who makes a tq converter for my 700r4?? I cant even find one. Thats the main reason I was entertaining the idea since there is basically no aftermarket for my trans. If I could find one that I knew would last and added a few items to the trans then i would be happy. I do plan to up the rear end this winter. But I like the 3.23s in the rear if I just got posi in there and a real good convert. I think?? It would help greatly. Shift kit exc. and those are my options with this trans but a good tq convert has gotten me lost..

Any ideas on where to find a convert?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCI-243260-G...716#vi-content

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360477777288?hlp=false

http://www.jegs.com/i/TCI/890/243015/10002/-1?CT=999

Would any of these pass the test with the tq/hp im making and not get ruined in one season. Are they even the correct application? Thanks

 

thats the right adapter, none of those 700r4 converters will work with the 60* transmission

a 60* v6 trans takes a 10 inch 27 spine converter with a small crank piliot and has a smaller mounting bolt circle then the v8 stuff

so even if u got a 27 spline 9 inch v8 converter the mounting pads are larger then the diamiter of the stock flexplate not to mention the larger crank pilot so it wont even drop into the crank


th350 will give less drivetrain loss has much cheaper converters available and is much stronger then the 700

ur starting to get to the power level were even if u do spend big money for a great converter the transmission is still going to crap out and possibly take that converter with it

summit sells a 700r4 to th350 conversion kit for properly mounting the th350 and tq arm i think its 75 bucks

get info on that th350 its ifs buiolt up good it could be a deal anda half specially if it has the right tailhousing n stuff

check the transmission board i think there is a sticky for swaping to the th350 trans,also mars runs a th350 in his turbo camaro and it works perfect so u can ask him if there was anything special he had to do

 

Ok dave Ill try and message mars, does he still get on here often. the 3.5L has the same bolt up(belthousing) as the 3.1L correct?

 

yeah all the 60* motors have the same pattern, i thinkmars comes on once in a while

i also posted up some info in ut transmission section thread that will help u out

 

Thanks dave im gonna keep writing on the other thread for now. The trans forum

 

i shot him a pm earlier this afternoon. hes around just not as often as the rest of us

edit* heres his build thread. post 12, 26 june 2010 start there.

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/also...start,120.html

 

i linked mars's pics of the swap into fasteddis thread in the trans section, should be enough to help him out once u see the pictures u know exactly whats needed to do the swap

 

sweet, just saw that

 

Im not sure why but i cant get that link to work?

 

The word filter strikes again. In the link there are six asterisks (*). Replace them with this word without the spaces:

m u l l e t

RBob.

 

Mark, there are custom torque converter shops out there that will take your existing torque converter and rebuild them to whatever specs your looking for, your not limited to name brands. Just fill out their forms, tell them the your exact setup, and they will customize one for you. Incidently, JMD gave you a perfect response in your other thread...;

That was a perfect response, and this is why I told you to focus on your rear gears with that steep 700R4 first gear if you keep it...

 

Cost to change 1st gear, get a custom tq converter and pray the narrow 700 stays in one piece is a big risk that im not sure if i want to take as of yet.

Im not dead set on the Th350 yet, but its a option that others have done. Mainly seeing mars swap and reading though it since it was a 60* V6 camaro also, just a higher Hp one.

 

... nobody is telling you to swap 1st gear in your transmission, as that is completely defeating the purpose. I mentioned rear gears in conjunction with the stock steep gear which I am not going to bother repeating anymore because you seem to be set on tossing the 700R4, which is a complete waste in my opinion, but like I said, your build, your time, your money. Others have also gone with a stalled 200R4 w/trans brake, overdrive and adapter plate for the same money. Perhaps get that thing dynoed too, three pulls for sixty bucks around here, because that will eliminate a great deal of speculation, whether stock part breakage, or 1/4 mile performance. Datalogs only really tell half of the story.

 

Well I do plan to run steeper gears if I would keep the 700r. Rob the problem im at is If I could find someone to "remodel" the current converter. Would it cost more then the car and then would the 700 hold up. I guess i could get it dynoed but seeing my trap speeds and the weight of it I have a shaky idea where the Hp could somewhat be, at least at the stripe.

Rob its coming down to the cost of the upgrade. I just want the easiest and most cost effecctive route. Im not looking for a cheep route just a best bang for my buck.

Rob do you know any one on this side of the country that does restall them? Ideas of prices? Im just thinking here and those are some q's that I though you may be able to help me with.

 

back in 2001 there was a syclone at norwalk. an old fart was racing it running low 10's, with a 700R4, also launching in 2nd gear. it boils down to your preferance, have the converter worked over, or swap in the TH350. when my shitbox is finished it will have the 700R4, i plan on hittin the freeway with it lol. startin to get old and dont want the engine yelling in my ear at 70mph i suggest to get the converter done up and if you really want the TH350 save it as a winter project.

 

Blazer remember anyplaces out here where the converter is built up?? Is it called restalling or a rebuild? Any clue on a price. Are we tallking like 2-400 or more like double that? I have no idea personally.

 

http://tpiconverters.com/converters/rebuilt-converters/

 

Rob does Dana and pro built trans mess with that stuff at all? Rebuilding/restalling?

 

I think Dana might be able to order you a custom converter through one of his sponsors, as sometimes sponsors make considerations regarding converters that they normally don't offer if they feel there might be a demand through that outlet. Dana might even have some really good alternatives as well. Believe me though Mark, if you were making over 400 horsepower I would be the first in line to tell you to yank out that stock transmission...

 

only auto i had that had any kind of power was the buick, Hughes converter 2800 stall. is art carr still in the business rob?

 

Oh I know im nowhere near 400Hp. I would guess arround 300Hp at a point in the run. Ill call pro built tommorow and see if I can talk to dana. If all else fails that guy knows it all when it comes to those trans. Very Very knowledgable and im sure I will learn a few things. Funny as last time I was having converter problems he was the guy to talk to... and he told me that the one I was getting would not last long.

 

Yes, they just switched names...

http://cpttransmission.com/

 

Well as its my day off and nice out I went and tried what Rbob said and starting in 2nd gear. Actually it went well. Very well considering. It actually dropped (rpms)


Heres the drops from the datalog. Two loggs, one five minuets after the next. The 2nd log was on the bottom hence the shifts were higher.

1st to 2nd. 5875 rpms to 4750 rpms.
2nd to 3rd. 5850 rpms to 4900 rpms.

1st to 2nd. 5975 rpms to 4900 rpms.
2nd to 3rd. 6075 rpms to 4850 rpms.

Good enough to make it 2 more races I hope. I did fell the jerk in the shifts from 1st to 2nd though, felt good.

Im still looking at the converter trans situation as The one TH350 I was looking at is indeed a 6 inch tailshaft. Not the one I need. So im just going to leave it for the winter project, and do the trans or converter and rear end then. Just enjoy the car the way it is for now I suppose.

 

These guys are right in Ohio, they might be able to customize/upgrade your converter for you...

http://precisiontorqueconvertersofohio.com/index.html

 

Thanks Rob I will call them tommorow!! Thats nice that theres in ohio. That may be the answer there if they can freshin it up. What do I ask them for restalling or refreshing or rebuilding?? Im new at the converter lingo.

 

herd back on that converter its a 200$ jegs brand friend who uses them has it behind a high compression lt1 with 2 stages of nitrous ( 250) shot never had an issue with it

wanna know how bad ur 700r4 is doing ?? out the shifter in nuetral on level ground and rev the motor up bet u the car moves foward cause cause all the steel plates in are starting to warp


take it from somone who has been there and done that ditch the 700 before u have tons of money tied up in it and it blows up anyways

i kept 2 spares at the shop at all times with my car

2004r is anothe roption as they can also be built up with a trans brake and have overdrive but converters also arent cheap


th350 is a dime a dozzen and very cheap to have built and will last, converters are also cheap and has option for the transbrake, has no over drive but will not change trap rpm becaus ehigh gear is 1-1 ratio just like 3rd gear in the 700r4, nice 1-2 shift gap

700r4 is not cheap to have built, may still break and converters are 6-1k thats even if u can find somone who will build the custom converter the v6 needs, its only bonus is over drive, and has a horrible shift gap on the 1-2 shift

200r4 stronger then the 700 by alot ,cheaper to build, can have transbrake very very cheaply( 50 bucks), but converter is going to cost alot again and u keep overdrive, much better 1-2 shift gap versus the 700r4


for the cost to make a single 700r4 and converter survive u can have 2 th350s built