Hello All,

I am sure this thread is someplace on here. A link to it would be appreciated. Any and all suggestions will also be appreciated. I have a 1992 Formula 350 with 60,000 miles on it. I have a TPI airfoil, Hooker headers, 3" exhaust and a flow master 40. New plugs and wires and a 3 point BMR strut tower brace. eibach lowering springs and the Hawks 3rd gen 17' wheels. I am looking for a performance upgrade and I don't want to hack the car up since its so clean. I was thinking a supercharger. What kits have been successful and not cost a million dollars and don't destroy the car. Or if anyone has suggestions as to what I can do( heads, Cam, Intake) that would give me what I am looking for. I don't need a 10 second car. I would just like something fun to drive that sounds like a monster. I love the sound of a big lumpy cam on cars. What has everyone done and had success with. I would just like to not be passed by Priuses! LOL!

 

Budget?

Doing your own work or paying a shop?

What tuning shops are in your area with a chassis dyno, and what platforms are they willing to tune on?

GD

 

I have no clue what shops around here work on TPI motors. I am in LA and have been trying to find one. All the shops I have asked have said ( Yeah we can work on those) and the tone has always been questionable. As for budget I just don't want to spend a million dollars. I am just trying to make it so I can pass a school bus

 

You can get the SBC kit and re-drill the plate lower.

Personally, I'd make your own brackets, and that's what I have done. I mounted the blower on the passenger side which makes more sense to me.

-- Joe

 

It's not going to be a million dollars, but expect to spend at least $10k - $12k. Kit's are $5-$6k, you will need management ($2k), fuel system ($1k), and then installation and tuning. Easily $10k-$12k - maybe more where you live. Send it up to me in Portland Oregon and I can install/tune on my DynoJet. With the labor costs being lower up here and being I have third gen experience and all the tuning equipment......

GD

 

Where did you come up with these prices?

$5k for a supercharger kit? $2k for management?

-- Joe

 

Procharger with fmu and a new 340 or 450 walbro pump in factory tank will be enough for 5-8 psi which will be more than enough to be fun. Could go larger injectors too to help. Its not that expensive

but all depends on what you can do yourself, who can tune, and what your future goals are

odds are low you will find anyone willing to touch a boosted stock ecm car. Only a few even know about code $59 or the boosted $8D code that was posted here, or if maf car, blowerworks modded maf system to read more air than stock maf. Lastly, theres EBL from RBob dynamic efi.

all cheap and good enough but will require the right person to do it

else you will have to go aftermarket for someone in a modern shop/dyno facility to tune. Most ppl know Holley stuff now, some megasquirt, fast, big stuff etc. thats where it gets to be closer to 2000$

 

Grab a P1SC kit while you still can before Procharger discontinues them.

GM 2-Bar MAP, w/calibrated chip from reputable source like Turbo Tweak. Data stream is similar to the Sy/Ty, so I don't see why Eric can't be coaxed into burning you one for the '7730. Larger injectors, better pump, and you'll be fine...

- Rob

 

Retail pricing on the Procharger kit is about $4500 to $5500 depending on options. And there will be other parts required besides what's in the kit.

Retail pricing on good modern management is going to run about $1500 to $2500 depending on options. My LINK with CANBUS Lambda is about $2k just for the electronics. Holley and others want you to also buy a distributor.

Then you have installation and tuning.

Sure if you want to mess with 30 year old electronics and risk your $15,000 engine and supercharger combo to leaking capacitors and software written in the 1980's to save like $1,000..... go ahead. Personally I want more/faster features, better knock control, lifetime warranty, product support, new electronics, etc.

I do this EVERY day. I know what the prices are. And it sounds like this individual is looking for a "kit" not a home-brew, and a "shop" to install/tune and stand behind it. You checked labor costs at performance shops lately? I looked at my wall 30 seconds ago.....

GD

 

Quote:

I have a 1992 Formula 350 with 60,000 miles on it.

Well, the above wasn't directed at me, but I will respond to it anyway. Doesn't sound like a $15,000.00 engine to me that the OP is dealing with. Doubt he even paid half of that for the whole car. Not to mention, Bob Bailey and Eric Marshall have been perfecting and enhancing our thirty year old technology for over two decades. Thousands of satisfied customers can't be wrong. OP mentioned he is not looking for a ten second ride, he just wants to be competitive against newer model vehicles out there. No reason to spend that much money, money in which he will never see back at any resale value. By the way, why would you guys even be arguing about this...?

- Rob

 

I was thinking the vortech V3 Si kit for SBC which is $2700 shipped from summit or jegs. Fabricating the elbow to his TPI intake is fairly straightforward, or he can even run a FMIC like I have for a few hundred more dollars.

For management, a Microsquirt V3 would be perfectly fine, so that's like $350 ish with the harness pigtail. Budget another $140 or so for a wideband controller and sensor.

I think LINK is a bit much for this project, besides I see a lot of people bitching about it on the EFI groups on facebook. I'd probably go Holley if I wasn't using a MS.

I agree though, I wouldn't use the 30 year old electronics and 8 bit code. It's 2020. There is no legitimate reason to use that stuff.

-- Joe

 

I don't know who those guys are?

You're right about the resale value. I've had my car up for sale for 2 years for $15k, and I've not had one bite. I'd even sell the engine complete with the management system and tuning if someone wanted to drop an 800+hp combo into their already pristine car.

-- Joe

 

The Megasquirt stuff has classically had pretty poor knock control support which I consider a must for forced induction. Also having the CANBUS closed loop lambda is REALLY nice. I get the appeal of the MS stuff because it's cheap but...... the quality remains long after the price is forgotten. The LINK and Holley ECM's are also completely enclosed and weatherproof which is not something I have seen from any of the MS builds.

Yeah there's all kinds of non-commercial options out there. MS, Speeduino, and other bottom feeders in the market. Question is - do you want the entry level low end product with poor support and you have to figure it out yourself..... if you are paying a shop they will just charge more labor (possibly quite a lot more) to deal with that level of product that is considerably harder to use. Just the time it takes to wire it in.... I can supply a harness adapter for a LINK ECM that will plug into the factory ECM header and run the engine with no wiring changes other than switching from a MAF to a MAP sensor (so like 3 wires).

Does the Vortech kit come with intercooling? I would also consider that a must for a supercharger in LA on a third gen.

GD

 

He didn't ask about resale value. Of course it's not worth it. If you just want to pass a school bus then buy a V6 Camry.

Doesn't change the fact that if you have to replace the engine in his car in LA...... it's not going to a cheap proposition to pay a shop to do so. And usually people elect for a little more performance. Heck I'm putting a 400 HP Blueprint engine in an 87 IROC right now for a customer. Here in OR this is about $8500 all-in for engine($3500), associated parts (Vortec base, flex-plate, S10 converter, balancer, labor, 36lb injectors, stock ECM tuning, etc). And that's without intake and exhaust mods that it will eventually need. Labor pricing in LA is going to be at LEAST 25% higher than here.

So the engine's "replacement value" is easily $10k.... insurance cost wise. And the super is easily another $5k. So yeah the engine replacement value would likely be $15k easily. So again - do you risk replacement value of $15k on saving $1k on management? Not me.

GD

 

For a basic blower kit for a few extra ponies no way would i replace that engine.

we are talking stock bottom end 400-450 hp flywheel max on like 8 psi lol

Unless something is seriously wrong with that motor as it sits no way would i touch it except for valve springs and new seals. That i believe is a good idea with boost pressure

 

Oh I wasn't saying to replace it - absolutely not. I was only stating "replacement cost" as a reason for not wanting to trust a forced induction application to 30 year old electronics. Or even the entry level "DIY" stuff like MS and Speeduino. I have nothing against these products per-se but I have plenty of experience with that stuff. I'm a former software engineer..... I build retro-arcades with Raspberry-Pi's and MiSter FGPA's and I've assembled Megasquirt boards from component level/bare board kits. I've tuned MS3 with custom turbo applications, etc. Looking back on that stuff and knowing what the commercial products offer I wouldn't go back and mess with that for an automotive application.

GD

 

This is kind of where we differ. I like the fact that my third gen runs HEI and 8 bit code. It's a third gen. It's what it came with. Why invest in newer technology for a thirty year old car? Why not just buy a newer car and have your fun with it? What's next for the third gen, driver assist lol? I think people are getting carried away with all of this, in my opinion of course. Just enjoy the car for what it is, and if you want to mod it, mod it based on performance upgrades that were made for it. I mean two thousand dollar ECU's, coil packs, all this stuff only to lose your money down the road because the car itself is now worthless to another. If you want all of those features, then buy a car that came with it. At least then you might break even afterward when you decide sell it...

- Rob

 

No he didn't ask about resale value, but any concerned member that has been through this years ago would be considering resale value for him. The guy mentioned he liked the sound of a lumpy cam, and the possibility of a supercharger. He wants to make some upgrades to enhance his performance. What he has to work with is more than capable for what he is after. Maybe not for some members who prefer newer tech, but that falls more on someone's preference in tuning, and is not necessarily factual from a reliability standpoint. These cars are still rolling around with what they came with from the factory thirty years later, so GM did something right with them in terms of reliability. If something is failing on the stock system, replace it. It happens. No need to reinvent the wheel for an old car. I swear it's like everyone on here is broke, and they are trying to turn their third gen into some kind of an exotic buy showering it with expensive gifts, yet in the end, it's still just a thirty year old third gen. Just enjoy the car for what it is, and if something breaks, fix it. You want more high tech for your F-Body, do what I did, buy yourself a brand new one...

- Rob

 

With electronics it's really the reliability factor that's the problem. Leaking capacitors, MAF sensors that are expensive and NLA. By the time you *spend the time* to utilize all that ancient history you have spent more in time and money than a newer more reliable solution with more features would cost.

I agree about running old stuff. I hate the new cars with hundreds of computer modules and CANBUS networks - all proprietary and will be NLA in a few years. Worthless IMO unless you are a fleet buyer upgrading every 5 years.

Newest thing I own is my 91 Formula. But for the electronics there are much better stand-alone options that are well supported, reliable, and don't rely on 30 year old components. Would you head off to the junk yard, pull a 30 year old engine and install it without a rebuild/reseal in your daily driver? Same thing with electronics but no one is actually "rebuilding" or manufacturing new 7165's and 7730's. They just verify that they work, make sure there's no *hit-stains on the board, and send it. Hell the control module in my tankless hot water heater had leaking capacitors on the circuit board after being in service for 11 years. 30 year old electronics for my expensive engine build/performance project? NO THANKS.

GD

 

If you are into cars and consider resale value at all you need to walk away and find another hobby

 

I agree. If the car is in excellent condition with 62k on it I wouldn't touch it. Maybe freshen up the motor, replace anything aging like the injectors/fuel pump, add a mild camshaft and a tune..... maybe S10 converter..... and send it.

But that's not what he asked for. We are on in the Power Adders forum and he asked for supercharger kit (KIT - not a DIY project) suggestions and then asked for SHOP recommendations and said his budget was "less than a million".

So.... my answers are based on what he asked.

GD

 

THIS!!

 

I I like to megasquirt platform because my background is a software engineer also, I like being able to modify the code if I want to, but I also really like the tuner studio interface and the overall functionality of the mega squirt. If I wasn't using it I would probably be using Holley.

The microsquirr V3 I mentioned is a waterproof weatheer pack ECU. There's also the MS3 pro, which like the micro squirt uses SMT and is much more reliable than the crappy MS2 through hole boards.

Vortec does offer after coolers, when I used to dabble in this stuff years ago I did a lot of vortec installs on mustangs. Could make a lot of horsepower with just a 4.6. The vortec SI trim is a lot more efficient than the ProCharger P1SC, So it can be run on the street without an intercooler but intercooling is always a good idea. I have an air-to-air intercooler on my 3rd gen and I often go back and forth about whether or not I should switch to the air to water, on hot summer days The front mount intercooler blocking the radiator is sometimes an issue. I prefer to keep the water temperature under 180.

I've thought about using the holley sniper on one of my speed boats.
​
I do stick with my recommendation though on this gentleman's stock 3rd gen. A vortech sbc kit and a microsquirt V3 would be a perfect little street combination.

​​​​ Or you heb mine, which would be cool because I've kind of lost interest in it. Lol


-- Joe

 

Says the person who's project is now completely worthless from a collectible standpoint. Not to mention, anyone who does not put value and expense into the equation as well as cost is not an intellectual. Sorry, it is the sad truth. When all is said and done you lost a great deal of money to impress a handful of people that you will never meet, and to lose to cars that have less engine than you. Sad truth. But hell, if it is worth it to you, then that is great. But considering the fact that the OP has not come back, once again you guys scared everyone away with expensive and comprehensive tuning suggestions because one party thinks he is a tuner with a new dyno to brag about, as well as another with assumptions that everyone wants to run single digits on the track. Way to go...

- Rob

 

..nvm

 

Who are you talking to?

It's a thirdgen fbody, it has no collector value.

I used to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on my horses. That's not an investment either. Hobbies cost money. Don't even get me started on my speed boats, watercraft, or Harleys.

-- Joe