We'll finally get to find out how much power/torque the special porting and siamesing is worth on my engine this Saturday. We'll also be dyning Don's Trans Am to get a baseline, and Alex's 406 SuperRam, and Bill's new AFR-headed combo in his 91 Z28.

But just remember red ones are faster.

http://www.markdibella.com/index.html

Yes its an import shop but they have a dyno and that's all that matters. And yes his dyno can handle the torque of a V8. See you around 10am.

Bill's car got walked on the top end by a '06 or '07 'Vette today ...I hope we can find a little more power. I recently reworked my SLP runners and stock plenum to look like the mega-porting offered by corvetteplenum.com., in an effort to extend the RPM range. We'll see how it worked Saturday.

Bill

Whats the cost? If I can afford it, I will def be there

I'll be out of town, but you guys should DEFINITELY do this if you possibly can.

TA

I'll be at the Pontiac Show at Jim Wangers Garage on Sat.

I will be there. Either as an innocent bystander or with my TransAm. Do I need to bring anything?

Just to eliminate any confusion, we won't have enough time for any other cars on this day, but will be having a regular dyno day for some pulls in the future.
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Your table for one.

Ah, never mind then.

Good luck to you guys!!!

definately looking forward to the numbers..keep us posted

Orr89RocZ, I know the cars that will be dyno'd will be of high interest to you and others on this board. It will be up to the owners if they want to release the data. They have motor combinations with some of the latest technology and should be pushing the envelope.

Items like the XFI cams, AFR 195 Eliminator heads and an experimental TPI system. That is why I want to be there. I want to see what the latest is.

We had a manual transmission car on the dyno last year that did not have the latest technology and he put down 350rwhp.

thats why i would LOVE to know what your combinations put down. I havent seen anyone put up numbers for combinations like that and i feel those are the combinations that will be making the most power out of TPI systems, or any intake setup for that matter. I will be definately posting numbers on my HSR/383/custom grind cam from BRE, whenever i get it done

Yes, unfortunately the shop isnt open late on Saturday so we have to hurry and get our four cars in. But you're all welcome to join us and then we'll go out to lunch afterwards.

I love 406 sbc's, I've replaced more rear tires that I can remember with mine. All from going to LACR of course...never on the street....Looking forward to the results.

Yep, the report cards are out today.

and the results are?????????????

I think there is a whole lot of analyzing going on. Anyways the three cars on the dyno were impressive in their own categories. As usual they will have to speak for themselves.

His Dyno was little stingy....about 10-12 HP low as seen by my combo.
I just made the one pull to get a base line.
Previous was...327-365
Today 315-350...no changes since last dyno session. (on other DynoJet)

weather changes? i hear its possible readings can be altered depending on how well the car is strapped to the dyno as well. Getting a good tach signal is important to, could possibly throw things off abit if not dead on

There are a lot of variations with dyno's. If the dyno is not calibrated correctly, it will throw the numbers off. If the weather changes from one session to the next, the numbers will change. There will even be variations from one dyno to another if made by the same manufacturer. The real value of a dyno test is getting a baseline and then retesting on the same dyno to see if your mods improved things. The fact that Don did a baseline on both dynos without changes to his combination gives us an indication of where this dyno is in comparison to the other dyno that was used. It should give an idea of where the other cars "stack up" when and if the owners make their numbers public.

You are supposed to use the "correction factor" on the dyno results so that weather plays no effect on the results. We used the standard correction factor for our numbers.

I made 360 RWTQ at 5000 rpms and 355 RWHP at 5300, but it carried the 350 RWHP up to 5800, where it then fell off quickly. Very similar to Allen's results. It looks like we have hit the limit as far as the shape of TPI intakes. It doesnt matter how well your runners or intake manifold flow, what matters is the shape of the runners and the flow characteristics of them. With my engine making peak torque way up at 5000 rpms it should have made peak horsepower in the 6000 rpms range. Miniram and Stealthram intakes dont have this problem because they have different shaped runners.

Here is my graph & 2 of Kevin's

I will bring the video to our meeting in April. Hopefully we'll have the TV and meeting room this time.

Not bad at all, i've be very happy with a powercurve like that. Kevin91Z, your car has a FLAT torque curve. its around 360wtq from 3500-5000 and holds abit after that. That is a great curve.

It is surprising to see hp flatline at 5300-5800. Flow numbers arent everything i guess and you've proved that. Still a great powerband up top. Flat hp curve from 5000+, that car will fly!

I wanted to see what Alex's 406 would do ?
I pulled one out of my 85 TA, and in the proccess of installing a 305 roller cammed motor that had a 5sp behind it. I'm using a 700r4 because the car will be driven daily. But if things go well in the future I could put a 406 back in if it would pass So. Ca. smog. The #'s you guys posted are great no hondas hanging with you on the freeway, hope they like you taillights though lol.

I was looking at some of my dyno pulls from late last year and found this one. Most of the time they start aroung the 4500 rpm mark to keep the transmission from downshifting into 2nd gear. For some reason this one starts at the 4000rpm mark. Looks like it was cut off around the 5800rpm mark.

Notice how the horsepower is virtually identical to Kevins. After the cam and valve spring installation I should be ready for another dyno pull in the comming weeks. It will be interesting to see if there is much of an improvement.

My 406 had rpm heads,comp 292 cam 244 @50, victor jr, holley 750 so need less to say it would not stay on the road long. Car has sat for years now I want to make it a cruiser.....I have 3 400 sbc's so maybe It will get another.

Alex's car wasn't able to dyno yesterday.

My car, after tuning by Kevin91Z, made peak power of 321.01 @ 4,750 / peak torque of 375.10 @ 4,250 RPM. The power curve shows 300+ rwhp from 4,250 to 5,550 RPM, and 300+ rwtq from 4,000 (beginning of pull, 319 ft.lb.) to 5,300 RPM. I'll try to attach the dyno graph....


Bill

These numbers with any torque converters in the trans? Were they locked on the runs?

Edge 9.5" 2600 stall, locked (my car).
Bill

Congratulations guys, some decent numbers considering that the dyno is a tad stingy. One of the reasons that all the magazine guys love to use the engine dyno at Westec is that it is generous. There are just too many variables between dynos to compare pulls on different dynos without a fudge factor.

TA

Let me expand on Burnout91's combination for those who are interested. He is running a stock short block sans the cam. It is a XFI268. He is also running SLP runners which have had part of the runner removed at the top.

He is going to do the air lid mod for Camaro's like what JerryWho and DanH have done. We have seen a solid 7rwhp gain with that mod alone. I believe his car will do 330rwhp with some tweaks to the air inlet system. I think that is very good with a stock short block. That should put him well into the 12's in the quarter mile.

I think those are excellant numbers for his combination. Bill and DynoDon are to be congratulated.

Yep those are pretty good numbers considering stock shortblock compression and that cam. It seems to be a great siamesed setup TPI cam. i would love to see a 224/230 XFI cam tried tho for abit more power

Yes it was. But we couldnt get a full pull.

Alex? Do tell??

Sorry Daniel but I'm not the Alex they are talking about.

just checking....

Hi ILMODC

I am the other Alex. The car was having some issues on the dyno and we weren't able to complete the session.

It didn't want to end up like the white Miata that was there.

Now that the real Alex has spoken I will say this. The motor was looking real promising on the dyno. It was putting down more than I thought it would.

Regarding the "stingy dyno". What Don said may well be true and the reason would be the dyno tachometer being off. We have every reason to believe the dyno tachometer was off by about 300 rpm in the 6100 range. Not sure how much down low. It was most likely linear with it being correct at zero rpm and got worse as the rpm's went up.

Now the horsepower is calculated from torque. I believe the torque curve itself is most likely accurate but the rpm of the torque measurement would be off. It would need to be scaled to the right as you look at the graph. So at 5000 rpm lets say it was off by 5/6ths of 300. That would mean the dyno was reading low by about 250 rpm at 5000. You would need to slide the torque graph over 250 rpm at that point and recalculate the horsepower. At 5500 it would be off 275 rpm and so on.

That would raise the horsepower. So IMHO everyone made more horsepower than was indicated as Don suggested. Kevin most likely made somewhere in the 360rwhp range. Bill in the high 320"s and Alex well we won't say at this time but boy is he looking good.

Edit: Here is the formula for those wanting to do the math. Horsepower= torque x rpm / 5252.

OK I took the liberty of doing some calculations based on my theory of the dyno tachometer being off. Here are the numbers re-calculated to 5500rpm. Basically I took the torque numbers at 5250 and used the rpm of 5500. Should be close if my theory is correct.

Don's = 329rwhp. Only +2 off the other dyno.
Bills = 329rwhp.
Kevins= 369rwhp
Alex's= Oh my goodness.

Thanks for the info, Allen.
P.S.: My StealthRam arrived yesterday...
Bill
P.P.S.: The numbers are all good, but hangin' out with a bunch of knowlegable, friendly ThirdGen gear-heads was the best part of the day. Thanks again to Don, Kevin, Alex, Brian, Allen.....and a couple others whose name I can't recall right now.
Bill

Wow Those are some mighty impressive (and somewhat scary) numbers!!!

good job everyone!!!

-Tim-

Allen what makes you think the dyno is off? I know my tach is off by about 300 rpms so that could be the difference.

congrads every one on there dyno runs. pretty good with your ci. kevin is real close to my rwhp. good job on that. let summer get here so we all can go racing and have fun. a lot of fast cars.see ya. branden

You ran my car to 6000 but the Data Master showed 6300 +

Same with Bills. You ran it to over 6300 on the datalog but the printout on the dyno only showed around 6000rpm. All the cars were the same way.

Over at Sarkis's dyno we never saw that. The shut down on the dyno chart correlated with the datalog dyno chart. It may have varied a little but if it did it was not enough to notice as it was to close.

My dyno charts from MD Automotive were strange, too, I noticed that torque and HP didn't cross at 5250, they crossed on all my dyno charts at 4700. Go under
Tools"
Graph Options
Click "force Scaling"

Also make sure that at the bottom of the chart, you are showing the graph in ENGINE SPEED, not in Speed (MPH) or vehicle speed.

Good luck

TA

i had a dyno graph like that before. torque and hp crossed at a mph speed that did not convert back to 5252 rpms like it was suppose to

On the dyno runs we made the torque and horsepower curves did cross at the 5250 point. Yes we did convert to "engine speed".

What was different was the shut down rpm on the dyno printout and what the datalog was saying. They were off a good 300rpm at the 6000 point. This did not happen on the other dyno as they correlated pretty good. If the other dyno was off some at it was not noticable like on the MB Automotive dyno.

Hopefully in a few weeks we can do another dyno session. This one looks to be pretty good to with some caparisons with other intakes. Because they are not my cars I cannot devulge any more info. My car should be ready and we can give the First intake a real workout.