I have been looking at suspension threads to get ideas for my 87 when I see a lot of guy's talking about their frame's cracking somewhere around the steering gear. Where does this crack appear? Infront, behind, or under the steering gear. I understand the wonder bar ( steering brace ) is to help eleaveate this problem.If mine is cracked is this repairable? Thanks

 

Anything is repairable with metal and welding skills, but there was a certain year that got a steering box brace, not the wonder bar that was put on IROCs, that was to try and lock in the steering geometry of the front, but the frame braces helped alleviate the box area frame cracks, I want to say 86+ cars got them, but I could be completely wrong on the year.

 

Thanks, you don't know where I can find out which Camaro's got the extra bracing . I have a LT that I have hopped up a bit with a 350 and am going to do suspension upgrade's this summer.

 

Well there were different bracing the factory did over the years. All camaros and firebirds got the steering brace after a certain year, someone else will have to chime in on when that was, but I think you're covered for that. Otherwise, there was the wonder bar that came on 85-90 IROCs with 16" wheels, it was to keep the steering geometry firm. Other than that, the 350 cars, which is after 87, got a brace that was in the driver side battery tray, can't say what that was there for really. I can't remember the exact location on which side of the tray it was on, but if it was towards the middle of the car, it could be somewhat of an upper frame brace, but I think it was more towards the fender side. There was also a brace that was attached between the passenger hood hinge and the firewall up by where the map sensor is normally located. Can't say what that was for. Also, I saw I believe it was an 86 IROC, and noticed that the rear control arms had something to fill the gap of the U shape of the control arm and had 2 bolts in it to firm it up some. I think that about covers everything outside of the rocker braces for convertibles.

 

My GM book talks about the bar. for slow full lock turns ..in parking lots.and 16" wheels
(that was why it was added) GM. IMO

 

Check the following link for info about the two underhood braces (My 85 IROC was equipped with both as well as the K-member braces shown below):

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ame-strut.html

Here are the K-member braces:

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...er-Braces.html

JamesC

 

There's a new one I haven't seen before. Judging from your GM description, any idea why that wheel housing panel needed reinforcing?

 

What a great bunch of guy's, Ya my 87 camaro dosen't have that frame to inner fender brace either. I was considering all new bushings ,struts & shocks.But after reading all the post I am starting to wonder if thats enough. My car is not any thing special as far as horse power or anything and it seems to handle very nice on my 15'' tire's, but if I can make it handle better and safer I am all for it. What are your thought's as far as minimal requirered upgrades?

 

Minimal? I'd say good struts, shocks, tires, SFC's, and Wonderbar (not for performance, but for precaution). BTW I wouldn't purchase a rusty OE piece for $45 when a new one can be had at around that price.

84, no idea about why GM threw either under hood brace into the mix.

JamesC

 

A wonder bar in the front wouldn't hurt, even though you have 15" wheels, and steering and suspension wouldn't hurt one bit. Even a strut tower brace would help in the suspension department. Weld in some sub-frame connectors and you'll be all set of a nice handling car.

 

The STB would probably be best delayed until the OE mounts (and their rubber) were replaced with after market, such as the Spohn or HotPart versions.

JamesC

 

When you mention OE mounts are you refering to all the bushings and the like.And I have to do this as cash permits, so which order would you do these things in?

 

you can do subframe connectors whenever. i would do strut mounts the same time with the steering rebuild so you get it aligned once. Then suspension is a whenever you can thing, and wonder bar is whenever.

 

No. Pics in the following link:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...elp-quick.html

JamesC

 

From 82-85 (or so) the Z28 got extra bracing while Coupe and Berlinettas did not. ( I'm unsure about the early Firebirds..... Most of the Birds I've had were 86+ but the 84 TA I owned did have them.)

Here is a picture of the frame rail stress crack from an 85 Berlinetta I rebuilt/sold a couple years back : ( Notice how small the Berlinetta Front sway bars are ! )

Before:


After Welding & Frame Rail Brace was added:



A crack was also often found at the front drivers side corner of the radiator support in some early ThirdGens. Years of abuse due to the Power Steering Box pulling and pushing on the frame rail significantly weeken the frame in these areas. & Road salt / Rust over the last 20-25 Years only compounds the problem !


Here is a pic of the front end of the IROC I rebuilt /sold last spring. You can clearly see the Frame rail-to-cross memeber braces as well as the drivers side "battery Tray" brace.



The mounting holes for these 3 braces are already in every third generation body and they are a very cheap, quick, & easy insurance policy if you intend to hold onto or restore your Camaro Firebird ! A Wonder Bar is also a significant upgrade that will also help the frame stay rigid and "square".

 

If I don't have these brace's do you know where I can get new one's or are these something I need to find in a junk yard. Thanks for all the great pics they really help.

 

If you're talking about the K-member braces, I link to them above.

JamesC

 

OK the one's from Sphone. Thanks

 

All that red is not a good look in my opinion...Tacky

 

Too bad you don't like the red; there's a reasonable chance that your going to see a car with red in it like that someday. ( both the cars in the pics I posted were sold long ago. ) I've rebuilt/sold at least a dozen of thirdgens with similar colors over the years to other New Englanders !

 

I liked seeing the pics as they show clearly what to look for and what I can do with my car when I start cleaning and painting after I pull the motor. I do not want that much red but that is only personal preference. When I first got my car I was ' red, no way' but for the look I want some red will work with the rest of what I am doing.

 

I'm sorry man, I don't mean to put anyone's car down, I just think that things like that look better in moderation like black or grey with red bushings on most of it and maybe a red sway bar . You know what I mean but it's all opinions and everyone has the right to their own preference. Keep up the restorations though, it's good to see these cars being resurected.

 

I know I go overboard - but I LIKE it !!!!!


Here's the ThirdGen I bought back in 92',..... It's getting a few upgrades right now !



It's an 84 Berlinetta so I had to add all the "extra" suspension braces that were stock on Z28 (and aLL ThirdGens after 85/86.)

If anyone reading this post has an early Coupe or Berlinetta; get these braces ASAP !!!! Your frame Rail now has 25+ years of stress on it and you REALLY could "save" your car by installing these parts !

 

I got some bad news today and I wanted feedback from the guys in this forum. I have a 1992 Z28 and my frame has cracked (again) around the steering box. The cracking is pretty bad. I drove my car to a local welder who looked at the crack and said there was really nothing he could do. I've already had this crack repaired years ago and it has occurred again. I believe the last time the car was repairedthe guy had to weld in another section of frame. Way expensive!! I am unsure how to post pics but I would like to if someone can help me out.

Feedback welcomed. Way too late for a "wonderbar" at this point.

Rick

 

James,

Did you car have those k-member braces from the factory or did you add them?

Eldon

 

From the factory.

JamesC

 

Is there any reason why bracing-plates can't be bolted or riveted over the crack, and then welded in place to secure the entire area?

True, it would be an "obvious" repair, but drastic times call for drastic action. If you are going to keep the car, who cares if there is an obvious repair somewhere underneath the car?

Unless you're just tired of the whole mess, I don't think I agree that there is "nothing he could do," when all we are really talking about here is a cracked area in a slab of channel-iron.

 

Take another look at the crack, especially either end of the crack. That's where the stress is highest. Your weldor should identify the very ends of the crack and drill two holes that encapsulate the crack ends; probably 1/4 to 3/8 inch in diamater or so to terminate the stress riser. Then, grind out the crack in the shape of a "v" along it's entire length with a cutoff wheel, plus clean the entire length out about 3/4 inch on either side of all paint, dirt, and oil.

Once that's done, tack weld the crack in several spots along it's length, paying careful attention to heat and wire speed to ensure FULL penetration of the weld. After dialing in the perfect welding current and wire feed speed, by tacking it in three or four locations, fill in the holes, followed by filling in the V along it's entire length. That should repair the crack. It's more involved than just jamming the MIG into the crack, but it should result in a repair that doesn't fail again.

 

I had the infamous frame crack behind this steering gear last year. Mine was circular around the bolt holes or feet of the steering gear. This spring I took it to a very reputable body shop and they cut out the bad and welded new in. Cost me around $350. They did a good job and even took measures to help prevent the repair from rusting. I installed a TDS wanderbar immediately after the repair. Ill try and post a pic of my frame crack this evening. Ill have to take one of the repair.

Check with a GOOD body shop. Body shops repair frames all the time.

 

Here is the picture of my frame cracks. The entire gearbox would move as the cracked frame flexed.

 

I know this is an older thread, but I was watching a TV show about restoring a frame on a GM truck with the same problem talked about here. They bought a frame repair kit that was bolted and welded in and around the steering box mounting area. I couldn't find this kit to fit a 3rd gen Camaro, but this looks like the way we could solve our crack in the steering box mounting area. I wonder if that truck part would work on our 3rd gen, even with a little modification it might be the ticket to our problem.

 

The truck frame in stamped c iron, so you can add the repair plate to one side. These cars are a unibody so the same idea wont work because it will move the box inboard the width of the plate. You can plate the top and bottom and even the outside of the frame but not behind the box

 

Can't we just adjust the small displacement?

 

I'm not sure how you could.

 

Had to repair two Thirdgens that had frame cracks at the steering box mounting holes...
Welded in a 5/16" Steel Plate for reinforcement. Installed Wonderbars...no more issues.

-Rich

 

Hello exactly how did you do this.from the back?

 

Pictures please.

 

I know that this is a very old thread. However, I have the same issue on an 85 IROC that I finally pulled out of storage to restore. Looking for tips on this repair

 

[img]/forums/images/buttons/post_old.gif[/img] 05-14-2015, 05:57 PM
#224
@Strick1
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Car: 92 Vette, 83 Camaro
Engine: 305 going to 95 LT1
Transmission: 5 speed going to T56 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi with disc brakes
Re: 83 Camaro\95 Caprice LT1\transplantHere is our fix on the crack where the steering box bolts to the frame:



This was our first try at using our welder. It's a little sloppy, but it got the job done. We added a couple of strips to give a little added strength.

You can check post #80 to see how it was before. We did spot welding so we wouldn't warp the metal. A long bead might have caused problems. Still learning.

I know this was a long time ago, but we're stll working at our swap. My thread is on here and it's long.Last edited by Strick1; 05-15-2015 at 09:05 PM.
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Yes I added the triangle supports and wonder bar.
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Hi - Thanks much for sharing the steering gear mount repair. This has given me some good ideas. Based on your repair, it looks like your frame may have been stressed/cracked further back towards the firewall. The major damage that I have is the lower bolt hole closest to the firewall.