Suspension and Chassis Questions about your suspension? Need chassis advice?

Never thought this would happen.

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Old Jun 19, 2012 | 02:48 PM
  #1  
viperprime's Avatar
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Never thought this would happen.

So yesterday and today I put on new Shocks, Struts, Front Sway Bar Ends and front Rotors on my 90 formula. Took it in for alignment today and the shop said "No Charge, it's already in alignment" Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket today.......
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Old Jun 19, 2012 | 03:40 PM
  #2  
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From: Montreal, Canada
Car: 1986 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z28
Engine: TPI 310ci (LB9)
Transmission: Custom Rebuilt 700R4 - 2600 Stall
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, 3.73 Eaton Limited-Slip
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Lucky.. but did you see the specs of your car? They could have just said it was "good enough"... And they're probably using the stock GM alignment settings as a reference, which aren't good for handling or stability.
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Old Jun 19, 2012 | 11:26 PM
  #3  
SCCAjunkie's Avatar
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From: Boyertown, PA
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 91 L98 long block with Pro-jection
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 91 10bolt w/ 3.42s and T2R
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Honestly, with the work you said you did, I'm not surprised the alignment was still OK. With the solid bolts up front, none of those things *should* have a major effect on your alignment (sometimes they do, but in theory, they shouldn't have *much*).

That said, I'd go with Hellz_wings and say that you may be in spec, but that might still not be that great... It should mean you won't experience funny tire wear issues though.
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Old Jun 21, 2012 | 09:50 AM
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From: Lincolnton, NC
Car: 88 IROC
Engine: 97 5.7 Vortec LT4 hotcam
Transmission: 700 r4
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Originally Posted by hellz_wings
Lucky.. but did you see the specs of your car? They could have just said it was "good enough"... And they're probably using the stock GM alignment settings as a reference, which aren't good for handling or stability.
Is there a certain setting that works better then factory for the normal daily driver that might get pushed on occasion?

Or are they different for everyone.
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Old Jun 21, 2012 | 09:54 AM
  #5  
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From: Enschede, Netherlands
Car: 82 TA 87 IZ L98 88 IZ LB9 88 IZ L98
Engine: 5.7TBI 5,7TPI 5.0TPI, 5,7TPI
Transmission: T5, 700R4, T5, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.08, 3.27, 3.45, 3.27
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Originally Posted by SCCAjunkie
Honestly, with the work you said you did, I'm not surprised the alignment was still OK. With the solid bolts up front, none of those things *should* have a major effect on your alignment (sometimes they do, but in theory, they shouldn't have *much*).

That said, I'd go with Hellz_wings and say that you may be in spec, but that might still not be that great... It should mean you won't experience funny tire wear issues though.

slide both bolts in the struts and don't tighten them, then wiggle the strut to see how much camber change it allows, the bolts are not in there tight!

Did the OP get a readout? sounds like the shop didn't care for doing an alignment and took the easy way out

Last edited by Twin_Turbo; Jun 21, 2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old Jun 21, 2012 | 10:39 AM
  #6  
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From: Montreal, Canada
Car: 1986 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z28
Engine: TPI 310ci (LB9)
Transmission: Custom Rebuilt 700R4 - 2600 Stall
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, 3.73 Eaton Limited-Slip
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Originally Posted by 3rdgenmaro
Is there a certain setting that works better then factory for the normal daily driver that might get pushed on occasion?

Or are they different for everyone.
Well, there isn't a one measurement fits all, but what I do know is that stock specs have low-ish caster, positive camber and I can't remember what toe. But for street handling and stability, in my opinion, you want:

-NEGATIVE CAMBER (I personally run -1.2 but that is alot for street but since I drive about 1000 miles a year I'm not too worried about tire wear.. If you care about tire wear that much go for something like -0.5 or -0.75 which is still good as I've run those specs before and had good results. Negative camber is better for handling and high speed stability.)

-More POSITIVE CASTER (these cars can't get that much anyway, but around 5 is good as the passenger side has 0.5 degrees more to compensate for road crown). The more positive caster the more the car wants to return to center which greatly increases high speed stability.

-TOE IN. Vetruck (or now referred to as SlickTrackGod) recommended 3/32 toe in. I've ran this and had great results. Car is much more stable at speeds.. Toe out tends to wander around but you get better turn in quickness. It's a compromise, but unless you're doing auto-x or slalom type driving all day, toe in is probably better for you.

Personally, I favor better mid and late turn grip (street driving), high speed stability over tire wear and quicker turn ins (autox and slalom).

For more juicy alignment info go here: http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm
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Old Jun 22, 2012 | 03:58 PM
  #7  
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From: Merryland
Car: 1982 Z28
Engine: LC9
Transmission: AR5
Axle/Gears: 3.23
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Originally Posted by hellz_wings

-NEGATIVE CAMBER (I personally run -1.2 but that is alot for street but since I drive about 1000 miles a year I'm not too worried about tire wear.. If you care about tire wear that much go for something like -0.5 or -0.75 which is still good as I've run those specs before and had good results. Negative camber is better for handling and high speed stability.)

-TOE IN. Vetruck (or now referred to as SlickTrackGod) recommended 3/32 toe in. I've ran this and had great results. Car is much more stable at speeds.. Toe out tends to wander around but you get better turn in quickness. It's a compromise, but unless you're doing auto-x or slalom type driving all day, toe in is probably better for you.
Camber won't affect tire wear as much as toe. I've run up to two degrees of negative camber on various cars and haven't seen any changes to tire wear. Now when there's too much toe out or something is broken (tie rod end, hub/bearings), then the inner part of the tires do have abnormal wear.

Pat
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Old Jun 22, 2012 | 04:13 PM
  #8  
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From: Montreal, Canada
Car: 1986 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z28
Engine: TPI 310ci (LB9)
Transmission: Custom Rebuilt 700R4 - 2600 Stall
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, 3.73 Eaton Limited-Slip
Re: Never thought this would happen.

Originally Posted by slow305
Camber won't affect tire wear as much as toe. I've run up to two degrees of negative camber on various cars and haven't seen any changes to tire wear. Now when there's too much toe out or something is broken (tie rod end, hub/bearings), then the inner part of the tires do have abnormal wear.

Pat
Thanks for that .. some of my understanding of alignments are still fuzzy lol
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Old Jun 22, 2012 | 08:34 PM
  #9  
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From: Tallahasse Fl
Car: 91 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Tpi 5.7
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: Never thought this would happen.

They are not hard to understand I do alignments at my work. Alignments are pure profit for the shop (after buying the rack that is). There are no parts to buy to do one on our cars, if they were honest enough with you to tell you its within spec then you found a trustworth shop and we need more of them. If it within factory specs thats all they need to do. If you want a certain setting you shoud have someone that is really good at alignments instead of a toe and goer.
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