SlickTrackGod

Took ball gone home.

SlickTrackGod

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SlickTrackGod

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SlickTrackGod

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//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

Looks like a much better tool then the usual internal compressor. I might pick one up.

Thanks for sharing, I don't see why some people have to make a stink because it's made for a different brand vehicle....

SlickTrackGod

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NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

How do you get the end plates out of there once the spring is installed?
I'm just can't visualize it right now and will not be offended if you call me stupid.

SlickTrackGod

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SlickTrackGod

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SlickTrackGod

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NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that explains how the telescopic rod comes out. But what about the plates.
I'm picturing the spring now in it's home, with tension, between the upper pocket and lower control arm. Am I missing something? You would have to pry them out, correct?

Maybe the video shows it, but I can't see it at this computer.

And I do agree that this is a much safer way to compress a spring than using one with hooks.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Watching.

JamesC

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Lots of people selling this on ebay and Amazon. What's a brand that is not cheap Chinese junk?

I'm getting one for sure and throwing away my old internal spring compressor -- literally throwing it away.

SlickTrackGod

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QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Fantastic, thanks!

Ya, the pricing looked too cheap on all the stuff I was seeing. The real deal is a quality tool made of quality materials and that's the part I was looking for.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

I just saw the video. Oooooooohhhhhh, I get it now. In use, the plates are between the coils, not on the ends. DUH! Sorry about that.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Thanks Dean!

Ive always hated the J hook style. This is one job I don't like doing. Been doing it with floor jack under the ball joint and I really don't like it. Its good to see a better tool.

Thanks. I'll have to add this one at some point.

brett89

Great review . I bought the Amazon one based on the great reviews.. I'm sure it will be suffice for personal use .

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That spring compressor still isn't failure proof:


RBob.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Especially if you spend $60. Compressing springs is no joke and it is a job for a quality tool. Beware of the inexpensive knock-offs. This is one job where maybe it is smart to be very selective what tool you buy.

Right now I don't even need a spring compressor for my Firebird. But I've had some taller springs in the past that were really difficult to deal with (drag springs were a nightmare!).

SlickTrackGod

you conveniently left out the part on the video where they pryed on the bottom of the rod lifting it off the top insert, you left out the part where they say it is user error, and you also left out the part where they show the actual tool they used and it is a knockoff desgn and not the true Mercedes 3 prong rod design. it has a u channel that the top plate lips on from a side and the idiots prying ion it rather than compressing it more pryed the rod right off the plate.

Of course now I have the two moderators that disagree tag teaming me and I am now on probation.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

No spring compressor is fail proof.

Junglebill

I own the eBay/Amazon unbranded version and can say I was vary surprised at the quality. I have had it for 2 years and used it on various side jobs without issues. I have also used the klann compressor if i had to buy again I would definitely rebuy the eBay / Amazon $80 one again . Just my opinion

a383z

iTrader: (2)

Wish I would have seen this a few weeks ago the old style was a pain and took hours to find a good seat for the hooks....but I know next time.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Problem with the hook style is the farkin hooks can walk off the coils if the jack shaft binds up. The compressor shown in this thread seems pretty close to the ~$200 OTC tool.

Stock FE2 springs are stiff enough that without the engine installed, the body will lift before the spring compresses far enough with a floor jack to get the A-arm bolts started.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

That was my problem last year. I ended up making a mount for my J hooked style spring compressor that made it pretty similar to this mercedes tool that I didn't even know about. As far as the chinese quality debate, my J hook tool is def China and it's held up fine for years. However with my father being a welding engineer and a metalurgist I'm not stupid enough to believe that I can spot small cracks or signs of fatigue with my naked eyes, I use chains because I don't completely trust these chinese tools either.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Nothing new there!

Chopski

iTrader: (1)

That's complete crap. He is trying to show us what is surely a better way to do this and he gets mods after him? Oh boy. This site is too valuable information wise to have that happen.

Chopski

iTrader: (1)

Thank you STG for posting this. I want to keep my digits intact. My father had a smashed finger from doing this back in the 50's. A do it yourselfer has to worry about the quality of equipment like this in an occasional situation so cheap is great unless it fails. But, it's only body parts...

A88GTANotchback

I don’t post much, but I know enough that if I make a thread and STG replies, I would be happy to receive such advice. To put him on probation for offering a better safer way to do something is mind boggling. We are better then that guys. Be thankful for such a resource. Even if some times it is rough around the edges.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yes, from technical standpoint I listen when STG talks. If I don't understand then I assume I am wrong and try harder to understand. That's the level of expertise we are dealing with here.

I saw what happened here and posts were removed, including mine. Best to just move on.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I agree which is why the thread isn't locked.

JamesC

alan91z28

this is a great thread as this is one of the more dangerous tasks that is performed routinely in all the rebuilds and upgrades that members are doing to all our great third gens.

on my latest rebuild/upgrade project currently in progress I ended up using UMI's new front weight jack kit. as far as safety and ease of installation this has been the easiest front spring install ever for me... both sides put in with no engine in place in less than 1/2 hour and no spring compressor needed... have not yet operated on street so can't yet say how I like operational performance but installation was A+


more pics of it in this thread, post #9
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ort-coupe.html

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not at all Dean, you were the one that attacked me in the other thread. I stated that a spring compressor isn't required to R&R the front springs in our cars. And you went full crazy. All you need is a mirror to see where the issue is. In every thread where someone disagrees with you the thread goes off track. Why is that?

RBob.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

I'm NOT trying to stir the pot here, but my 84 TA has the ground effects and you have to be careful at EVERY driveway, etc. I changed to taller springs to get the front end up, and was able to do the job without any spring compressor. Surprised me too. Just saying. But if I did need to use a compressor, this Mercedes style is the way to go.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

You posted misinformation. Yes, it's great new aftermarket springs often have an uninstalled height and rate allowing for several methods, safe and otherwise to be used.

But that doesn't reflect every front springset.

Buying tools that work more universally is entirely relevant to pros and hobbyist alike.

Don't squash good tech.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I didn't post misinformation and I'm not squashing tech. Dean took exception to my post in the other thread when I stated that a spring compressor isn't required to R&R the springs in our cars along with others.

And I will state, like I did in the other thread, that a spring being held compressed in a spring compressor it nothing more then a live grenade with the pin pulled.

The above video I posted proves that it is dangerous. But that fact is already well known.

Since the springs in our 3rd gens can be R&R'd without a compressor, why not do it that way? Isn't a much safer method a better way to do it?

RBob.

daferris

iTrader: (8)

Another way that I saw in my Helm manual that works great for me and is faster. (for me). Is to leave the ball joint connected and place a jack under the A at the pivot bolts The tool GM uses attaches to the jack and catches both the bushings on the a-arm. I have not made a tool yet and have had good results with jacking on the web between the bushings. (But I agree that jacking on the bushing shells is better). Doing it this way minimizes the need to "over compress" the spring and lining up the bolts is easier than you would think. Since I have a lift I drop the motor out the bottom and have to do this whenever I want to drop the motor.
Again not saying one method is better than another but for me this works.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Thank you, this is the exact method I brought up in the other thread. And was lambasted for it. It works and is very easy, quick, and safe.

RBob.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's funny because I keep hearing about this being in the GM Service Manual, but don't ever remember seeing any procedure using a jack to compress the control arm. So I pull out my trusty 91 Firebird Service Manual, since it's pretty much always on my desk for some reference or other. I turn to the front suspension section, mhm, says to use a universal spring compressor. Diagram shows the type with two hooks on one end and a plate on the other. Yup. So then just for the heck of it, I pull the 1987 Camaro Service Manual off the bookcase and flip to the same section... "Use blah blah J-tool to support the control arm, remove pivot bolts, lower control arm to relax spring".

So interesting that it was the approved method in 1987, but they'd switched to recommending the deadly spring compressor by 1991. Hmmm....

All I know is that with the shell stripped down to pretty much nothing, no engine, trans, front body panels, etc, you're not compressing a WS6 spring with a floor jack and gravity.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Of all the ways to install springs at home, I can't think of a worse way than to leave the a-arm frame bolts for last install. Both ends of the strut rotate in any direction (ball joint and upper mount). If you load the spring and put the a-arm frame bolts in last, then that means you're relying on a jack and a swivel joint to keep the assembly stable. Meanwhile, the strut is at an angle, so the harder you jack, the more the whole unit wants to slide away. Bottom line is it is all a balancing act. There is no way in hell that I'm going to lay on the floor and reach across the danger zone to wrestle the bushings into alignment and install those two bolts.

Actually there is one way that is worse. You could remove the jack stands and use an engine hoist to lower the car onto the springs, and then reach under to put in those last 2 bolts.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Probably pitched too many cars off the 4-post lift when they weight jacked the car installing springs. It's like having Steve Urkel as your mechanic, "Did I do that?"

Might have had something to do with the cost of the tool. I know in my work that I have to be conscious of what tools the dealer will have.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Well stated.

If you want to install any front spring on any third gen, you will need a compressor at some point. The A-arm as lever method is less effective when the inboard end is open, as the spring is farther inboard on the arm.

I have done springs without a compressor when able, I have done them with a compressor because the RBob described method was not viable, with and without engines in.

The Benz style plate tool is safer than the 4 J hook style. And it will get you through any third gen stock location front spring install.

I don't necessarily go by service manuals because they can be influenced by things like flywheel replacements instead of machining, or adhesive-inclusive fasteners which people blindly refer to as TTY, and other fallacies.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Some perspective when R&R'ing the front springs. I attached three images, one from the '88 FSM and two from the '92 FSM. Yes, GM did change from using the jack adapter to using a universal spring compressor.

But lets take a deeper look into this. Click on the '88 method first. It takes a special tool which not all dealerships may have. And note step 6, "install jackstand under outside frame rail on the opposite side."

Have to wonder how many times that step was skipped. Between the required special tool and issues from skipping steps, it makes sense for GM to change the procedure.

However, the a-arm is still being dropped by removing the pivot bolts. It takes very little lowering of the a-arm to release the spring tension. BTDT. And it can be done without the special tool. Have done it many times.

Now for the '92 service manual method. Here a "universal spring compressor" is used. Most likely a dealership has this tool as it can be used on various other vehicles. And more importantly notice how it clamps the spring too the lower a-arm.

It is not compressing a free spring, it is capturing it. And it only needs to be compressed a small amount.

And again, the pivot bolts are pulled and the a-arm lowered.

Note that in both cases the ball joint and strut remain in place. Both methods are easy, quick, and safe. Reassembly is the opposite procedure.

As mentioned in other posts, if you don't have an engine is the car, things change. In this case you have to compromise and do what works for you. But don't be fooled that a compressed spring is completely safe, it is not.

Heck, I almost got nailed by a valve spring while replacing the seals. Whacked the retainers to loosen the locks. Compressed the spring and removed said locks. Relieved the tension on the spring, turned to set the locks aside and the spring shot out of the pocket like a rocket.

What(!?), the o-ring seal at the top of the stem was hard and brittle enough to hold the retainer in place for about 2-seconds. Didn't make that mistake again.

RBob.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

FYI...Methods and tools change with time, especially on a platform with a 12 year run.

If GM deems a tool necessary for a job, it becomes "essential". That means Kent Moore ships it to the dealer and bills them. The only way the dealer can get out of this purchase is to prove that they already have the identical or equivalent tool in inventory. So if it's essential, and called for in an FSM, you can rest assured your dealer has it.

And tools are constantly evaluated. If there's a better way with a common tool, or a new tool being used on another GM platform, GM will update the procedure. This can come from service engineering research, labor time studies, or tips submitted be technicians in the field.

Lastly, if a way can be found that is just as safe but quicker (less labor time) or does not require a related procedure (like re-aligning the front end), then that saves GM warranty bucks. It must be remembered that the FSM is written for the trained GM technician working in a properly equipped GM dealership. The independent shop, or the do it yourself-er are not in the scope of the FSM.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Since I note that the OP has removed his initial posts, a move which he has unfortunately employed in the past, I think a comment or two is justified.

The exchange of information is TGO's raison d'être, which is why thirdgen owners come together here. So, as you can imagine, locking threads and/or banning members is counterproductive to our mission. Unfortunately there are some members who lack the social skills to interact appropriately and who often descend into vulgar personal attacks that have no place on a family-orientated site, a site where most members coexist amicably. However when a member cannot do the latter, will I watch, edit, delete, lock or put that member on probation or ban him for the integrity of the site and its best interests—especially when that member exhibits a long pattern of misbehavior which has led to previous bans on TGO? In a word, yes.