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Any of you guys do your own alignments? Curious what tools you are using. Nothing worse than bringing your car somewhere just to have someone f it up. I recently bought this digital laser tape measure that calculates angles. think I could rig it to measure camber for sure.
I use the SPC camber/castor tool. Used it twice so far. I did the alignment in my 92, I think I need to revisit it though as the tires are not wearing properly. I think my springs settled more since I built the car, everything in the steering should be tight still, only about 15,000 miles since I did the engine swap, trans and all new suspension
As far as I've messed with it was getting the toe in the ball park. Last place I took the car to have the alignment done, they messed with it for maybe 20 minutes, billed me $120 and said they didn't have time to do a full proper alignment that day (I had an appointment) and sent me out the door. Drove down the block, and while the steering was centered it'd drift to the left. Went home and looked under the car, looked like they clamped Vise-Grips on the adjusters and pulled until they crushed and left them covered in tool scars. Called them up more than a little angry and they actually wanted me to bring it back so they could try again. Told them to reverse the charge on my card, and left it at that.
Put UMI adjusters on it shortly after, ran the string tight around the car at four corners, measured from the string to the sidewall to determine toe, adjusted until the toe was in the ballpark, and determined the car rolls straight and doesn't eat the tires. Really need to get it done right or buy the tooling, but it's easier to procrastinate.
Do mine all the time, I have measure marks painted on the bottom of the car so I can hang a plumb line(s) for the initial and then do the hub measure with an alignment tool(s). When you want weird settings or you're **** about scratches and such, you have to do it yourself, in the long run the tools cost a lot less than the mess some of these people do to the car.
Yes, I have the 13-17" version, but now I wish I had the other one. I have also just been using cardboard with grease between for turn plates, but I think in the future I am going to invest in some proper turn plates, it's harder to do without the proper angle indications.
When you want weird settings or you're **** about scratches and such, you have to do it yourself, in the long run the tools cost a lot less than the mess some of these people do to the car.
Oh yeah, last thing I need is some punk taking my car for a joy ride to "test" and wrecking it after working a good percentage of my life to preserve it.
Originally Posted by 427seven
Do mine all the time, I have measure marks painted on the bottom of the car so I can hang a plumb line(s) for the initial and then do the hub measure with an alignment tool(s).
I have an SPC 91000 caster/camber gauge as well. Unfortunately the flat area I have to do the alignment isn't really level enough to set caster. But at the same time, I'm not sure how necessary it is to bother with measuring it in my case because the car can only get so much caster anyways from what I read. I just maxed it out on both sides and adjusted one side until it would track straight on it's own on the freeway, while keeping the desired negative camber. I do want to measure and see what it's at at some point though.
For toe, I bought Longacre 79501 toe plates. They have a little magnets to hold the tape measure on one of the plates so you can do it by yourself. It's pretty easy to do honestly. I don't think being off 1/32" or so is going to be a big deal in the long run really. The tedious thing is trying to get the steering wheel center, which still isn't that big of a deal. When I replaced the steering linkage, I used a couple jack stands with a string, made it parallel with the rear wheel, and measured and set the front to as close to parallel as possible. Then took it for a quick drive to see if the wheel was off center and how much (it was extremely close) before finalizing the toe adjustment so that I knew which side to mess with to center it or maintain the centering. This is also a good way to see if your rear end is lined up with the front end once you've checked both sides if you have an adjustable panhard bar. Definitely correct that before you mess with centering the wheel.
For makeshift toe plates, I took a couple of thin flexible cutting mats from Walmart and put a dab of grease between them. It's not exactly zero friction but the weight of the car slides them around no problem and it's very low effort to grab the tire and turn it.
It's hard to find a shop to trust to do things like this properly, especially with older cars that they probably don't want to deal with or just see it as old junk. And of course since it's your own car, you can take your time and get it exactly how you want it.
Thanks for all those details. Over all, its sounds like the price of the tools are reasonable, especially if you are doing more than one car. Is there another tool that is needed that you wish you had? I know virtually nothing about alignment.
Been doing my own alignments for some time now. Managed to get real turn-plates from a shop that upgraded their rack. This was the best improvement for doing a good alignment. As the results were finally repeatable.
For camber/caster have a bubble level type gauge that I place on the front hub (the disc brake hub, remove the wheel centers first). Camber is straight forward. Caster is done at 20° turns, left and right, then manually calculated to get the true caster angle.
Then to finish up the toe is set. Bought two laser beam things at Lowes/HomeDepot. Set those on jackstands at the rear of the car, one on each side. Using a 6" rule set the beams parallel to the rear wheels (not the tires).
Then measure the front wheel angles and adjust the tie rods accordingly.
One other thing for our 3rd gens. Need a turnbuckle type of tool to hold the upper strut mounts from moving. This way can loosen the three bolts and nudge the strut mount into the correct position for both camber and caster. IIRC, I used actual turnbuckles and bent/modified them to work on a 3rd gen.
Otherwise the upper strut mounts just go where they want to go, no fun.
But I'm guessing this adds to the complexity of the alignment because you have to take the tire off, and find a way to keep the car level. Is this true? Guessing there must be some disadvantage to these. You can even find them on Amazon for $20, although quality and accuracy dubious.
The 1100p looks pretty nice. I was seriously considering the 3300 because it did everything, but I really wanted something that would attach to the wheel for doing camber to make it easier, so I went with the SPC. Probably would have got the 1100p if I had seen that first.
I do wish I had gone with their 2200 toe plates instead of the Longacre ones. I like that theirs has stand-offs so that the toe plate aligns with the wheel rather than the sidewall. I may attempt to add slots to mine and make my own standoffs.
The 1100p looks pretty nice. I was seriously considering the 3300 because it did everything, but I really wanted something that would attach to the wheel for doing camber to make it easier, so I went with the SPC. Probably would have got the 1100p if I had seen that first.
I do wish I had gone with their 2200 toe plates instead of the Longacre ones. I like that theirs has stand-offs so that the toe plate aligns with the wheel rather than the sidewall. I may attempt to add slots to mine and make my own standoffs.
Didn't even notice the stand-offs until you mentioned it. I do like the fact the 1100 can be used on most any wheel. Noticed one guy couldn't use it on his car because tires too far inside wheel wells.
I used a Fast Track alignment tool for a while.
Then I got smArt.
My local Firestone will do any alignment spec I want.
$200 lifetime alignment.
They don't even care about the limits on using it.
The fast track was always a little off as well.
I used a Fast Track alignment tool for a while.
Then I got smArt.
My local Firestone will do any alignment spec I want.
$200 lifetime alignment.
They don't even care about the limits on using it.
The fast track was always a little off as well.
The lifetime alignments are great if you can find a shop that will be cautious with your vehicle and has a rack that allows vehicles with low ground clearance. In my area I haven't been able to find both. Usually I show the shop my engine bay and they wont guarantee that they wont mar up my strut towers, so I leave.
The lifetime alignments are great if you can find a shop that will be cautious with your vehicle and has a rack that allows vehicles with low ground clearance. In my area I haven't been able to find both. Usually I show the shop my engine bay and they wont guarantee that they wont mar up my strut towers, so I leave.
Exactly. If one lived in a small town, I think the sort of service we were looking for might be available. I want to watch and wait, maybe even help. To hand my car off to a stranger is hard to do. Now there are private mechanics out there, but even then, they are either super expensive, or are pushing cars thru like a cattle rush. They can't make any money if we are sitting their watching, waiting and helping.
I'm definitely not saying I trust Firestone(I always check torque of all boots/nuts after)
but they do an acceptable alignment job for a low cost.
Some shops won't set specs you tell them, but thankfully the near me will.
Probably gonna do -2 deg camber/+6 caster/ 0 toe in next time around.
My car is 26.125in ground to fender on all 4 corners and haven't had any issues getting it on racks.
Stock height is 28-28.5in.
Sure the air dam will scrape a little, but it's designed to take abuse.
For makeshift toe plates, I took a couple of thin flexible cutting mats from Walmart and put a dab of grease between them. It's not exactly zero friction but the weight of the car slides them around no problem and it's very low effort to grab the tire and turn it.
why is this needed? why doesn't one just start the car and turn wheel? sorry, know nothing about alignment, trying to learn.
also, what reference point is toe measured from? I get that you have the plates against the wheel, but where do you bring the tape measure to make the measurement?
Been doing my own alignments for some time now. Managed to get real turn-plates from a shop that upgraded their rack. This was the best improvement for doing a good alignment. As the results were finally repeatable.RBob.
What brand turn plates are you using? I don't understand how they can work, you lift car onto them, then the springs are unsprung, moving the car into un-natural position. I don't have enough strength to jounce my suspension back into its normal settled position - or maybe I'm just afraid to push on the car that hard
I'd love for someone to do one of these DIY alignments and then go get it checked at a shop. I have seen so many people try, and fail, at doing it at home with strings, lasers, whatever else they could rig up.
Firestone is decent for regular alignments, but I wouldn't go to them for anything race-oriented or difficult to dial in. I have a lifetime alignment and they do OK. When I go in all they ever say is my car is well maintained, they have no suggestions, and that my alignment was still in spec.
why is this needed? why doesn't one just start the car and turn wheel? sorry, know nothing about alignment, trying to learn.
also, what reference point is toe measured from? I get that you have the plates against the wheel, but where do you bring the tape measure to make the measurement?
The slip plates are needed because you want the wheels to move as easily as possible and settle under its own weight while you're making adjustments, otherwise you have to move the car around and set everything up again for every small tweak. You want it to be in it's "natural" state while measuring and adjusting, like it's going down the road.
The toe plates have little slots at the front and back that you run tape measures through. They hook on to one plate (some have magnets to assist) and you go to the other side of the car with the other plate to compare the front and rear measurements.
I'd love for someone to do one of these DIY alignments and then go get it checked at a shop. I have seen so many people try, and fail, at doing it at home with strings, lasers, whatever else they could rig up.
Firestone is decent for regular alignments, but I wouldn't go to them for anything race-oriented or difficult to dial in. I have a lifetime alignment and they do OK. When I go in all they ever say is my car is well maintained, they have no suggestions, and that my alignment was still in spec.
Yeah I'm curious what the final specs end up as after DIY'ing it, but I don't really want to pay to find out if it's tracking straight and the tires are wearing nicely.
That works well if you know a good shop in your area. I'm not going to spend hundreds trying to find one worth my time and money if I can just do this at home and get it how I want it. I've had friends go to a few different local places with 2nd and 3rd gens and the shops do a ****-poor job or don't use anything other than the horrific stock alignment specs. We had rebuilt the front suspension on one 2nd gen, reassembled it with no shims, and they "aligned" it and it still had no shims. Did the same with a 3rd gen and they clearly didn't move the strut mounts, and the outside edge of one tire is clearly wearing way faster than the rest.
It's like they see an old car and don't give a crap or are too lazy to do it right because anything other than cam bolts are too much work.
Plus I enjoy doing everything I can possibly do myself.
The slip plates are needed because you want the wheels to move as easily as possible and settle under its own weight while you're making adjustments, otherwise you have to move the car around and set everything up again for every small tweak. You want it to be in it's "natural" state while measuring and adjusting, like it's going down the road
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Plus I enjoy doing everything I can possibly do myself.
ah ha! seems like the home made ones would be better. the professional ones say you have to lift car on to them, not drive on. lifting you car puts it in an unnatural state that is hard to get back to normal without driving it again. any thoughts on that?
I think the pro ones are more "slippery" though so it likely ends up being fine. My homemade ones don't slip as easily as I'd like, but good enough for my own car since I monitor everything pretty closely anyways. I need to redo them with a different material to get better slip and durability, probably using those plain white cutting boards that are around 1/4" thick. I've also read that a couple of linoleum tiles with some salt/sand or grease between them work well too. Even folded up trash bags.
ah ha! seems like the home made ones would be better. the professional ones say you have to lift car on to them, not drive on. lifting you car puts it in an unnatural state that is hard to get back to normal without driving it again. any thoughts on that?
The professional ones use ramps, or tell you to use ramps.
Originally Posted by rburrow87
I think the pro ones are more "slippery" though so it likely ends up being fine. My homemade ones don't slip as easily as I'd like, but good enough for my own car since I monitor everything pretty closely anyways. I need to redo them with a different material to get better slip and durability, probably using those plain white cutting boards that are around 1/4" thick. I've also read that a couple of linoleum tiles with some salt/sand or grease between them work well too. Even folded up trash bags.
I use two pieces of cardboard slathered with grease in between. I'll be buying Longacre plates in the future though
Can you guys explain how you lift the car up on one of these "semi-pro" slip/turn plates, what ever they are called. (Is there a difference) Anyway, when you lift the car up in the car, my front springs are so uncoiled that getting the car back into its normal stance is very, very difficult. those springs are tough man, I mean tough!
What brand turn plates are you using? I don't understand how they can work, you lift car onto them, then the springs are unsprung, moving the car into un-natural position. I don't have enough strength to jounce my suspension back into its normal settled position - or maybe I'm just afraid to push on the car that hard
They are commercial turn tables (Bean?). They get locked into a neutral position via a pin. The car is driven onto them, not lowered onto them. Pull the pins to unlock the plates. Also have the doo-hickey to lock the steering wheel in place for when doing toe.
The other item about the turn tables is that they have a degree scale. As when doing caster measurements need to turn the wheels so many degrees to one side then the other. I use the difference in camber with some math to get the caster angle.
I've had many issues when getting a shop to set the alignment. From not positioning the tie rod sleeve clamps/bolts correctly, to getting negative and positive caster mixed up, to using a hammer to move the upper strut mounts.
I'd love for someone to do one of these DIY alignments and then go get it checked at a shop. I have seen so many people try, and fail, at doing it at home with strings, lasers, whatever else they could rig up.
I don't need to have a shop check my work. Can tell by the even tire wear and how the vehicle drives that the alignment is good. And it is good.
Before I obtained real turn tables I was never able to get repeatable or decent results. I also dropped using strings (they were always in the way), and now use laser pointers to set toe. Square them parallel via the rear wheels (NOT tires), and then set the front toe.
I've had friends go to a few different local places with 2nd and 3rd gens and the shops do a ****-poor job or don't use anything other than the horrific stock alignment specs. We had rebuilt the front suspension on one 2nd gen, reassembled it with no shims, and they "aligned" it and it still had no shims. Did the same with a 3rd gen and they clearly didn't move the strut mounts, and the outside edge of one tire is clearly wearing way faster than the rest.
This is called "set the toe and go", and is obviously a farce.
Can you guys explain how you lift the car up on one of these "semi-pro" slip/turn plates, what ever they are called. (Is there a difference) Anyway, when you lift the car up in the car, my front springs are so uncoiled that getting the car back into its normal stance is very, very difficult. those springs are tough man, I mean tough!
Did you read my reply? I said you need to use ramps
Did you read my reply? I said you need to use ramps
yes, saw that, thank you, but was asking about these cheaper ones where they specifically instruct you to lift car and slide it under and then lower car on top.
I use a few trash bags neatly folded with some type of thin oils between the folds. Works wonderfully. You can also make some drive up ramps from screwed and glued 3/4" plywood. Cut to size of course. I use them for stuff like this or doing oil changes, simple maintanence.
I use a few trash bags neatly folded with some type of thin oils between the folds. Works wonderfully. You can also make some drive up ramps from screwed and glued 3/4" plywood. Cut to size of course. I use them for stuff like this or doing oil changes, simple maintanence.
Are you using trash bags just for toe? What type of trash bags are you talking about and are you doing just one fold with some motor oil between?
it just occurred to me when using these turn plates, you probably need to level out the back of the car using some plywood or something.
Yes, need to retain the level of the car. I made ramps (like Tibo posted) from plywood that ramp up to the turn tables. Along with ones for the rear tires to level the car.
05-08-2019, 12:01 PM
Went home and looked under the car, looked like they clamped Vise-Grips on the adjusters and pulled until they crushed and left them covered in tool scars. Called them up more than a little angry and they actually wanted me to bring it back so they could try again. Told them to reverse the charge on my card, and left it at that. 
