This problem just won't go away.. I have wander with it worse at 55mph than lower speed.. I can take it to a parking lot, put it into a hard turn at slow speed and it stays in the turn for full circles and won't return to center at all... This is a 92 Camaro RS. Everything is relatively new in the front suspension. I have the Astro Van steering rod mod, rebuilt steering gear box from Redhead Steering gears, and no wear on the parts that I can tell. I had it aligned to the specs recommended on the forum here (as long as the alignment guy did it right). I adjusted the idler arm for alignment with the pitman arm for bump steer.

I recently replaced the rusted tie rod adjusters with new lock nut style so while I had the tie rods disconnected, I tried turning both wheels my hand. They were both pretty stiff but weren't "catching"... Could it be the ball joints could be binding? Could it be the strut towers are binding? I do have some whine out of the power steering pump.

Not sure where to go next with this.. Thinking get out the shotgun and either shoot the car or start changing random parts (struts, strut towers, power steering pump, steering gear box, etc.)….

 

Hmmm... if its not returning to center it could be that the adjustment nut on the top of the steering box is adjusted too tight.

https://bangshift.com/general-news/d...ith-two-tools/

 

I recently replaced the rusted tie rod adjusters with new lock nut style so while I had the tie rods disconnected, I tried turning both wheels my hand. They were both pretty stiff but weren't "catching"...

They should not be "stiff". Once the tie rod is removed the wheel and tire should be free to turn by hand, actually if you push the tire out it should just fall out on it's own with the weight of the wheel. You mentioned your old tie rods were rusty, so definitely check those spindle pivot points, ball joints and strut mounts as you mentioned, could be rusty and binding.

 

I have tried adjusting the steering gear box including taking the car into Redhead Steering gears and let them adjust it.. There is no catch at center and I have loosened a bit now too... I have thought about the ball joint binding and strut towers after finding that the wheels turn stiff by hand without the tie rods connected. They are the oldest parts in the system. More recently than the ball joints I had replaced the struts and strut towers and don't see any rust on the towers... Looks like I need to try changing out the ball joints. The last ones I put in were MOOG and I have read on the net lately that they may not be a good choice.. The last set were bolt in so should be able to change them fairly easily... Any recommendation on a high quality replacement?

Thanks...

 

The ball joints aren't going to keep your steering from returning to center. It seems like something with the steering box.

 

Well, but with the tie rods disconnected, the stiffness is in each wheel... The gearbox was rebuilt by Redhead Steering Gears and they say that they machine them and put in tight tolerance new parts to make them better than original.. I suppose it could still be the problem but with the center link out it turns back and forth using the steering wheel pretty easy and no binding.. I think I have another used gearbox that I could put in and tray as well... Would a bad power steering pump potentially cause it to not return to center?? Mine as a little whine to it.....

 

I'll start with that I went on a quest to find a properly rebuilt steering box a few years ago and after trying over 25 different ones and I don't know how many different sources I didn't find one that was done right, had the correct ratio, correct stops... I made a few posts here, posted a few videos of testing them on youtube..., do some searching if you're interested. I ended up learning to rebuild my own. I'll note that I did not try Readhead.

I went through something similar with power steering pumps, not quiet so exhaustive, but in the end, I couldn't find a rebuild that worked right (I was given the suggestion by some of the better places out there to forget any reman, even ACDelco, and find a good low mile pump from a full-size truck in the JY, they were the best from the factory and even old used ones tended to work better than most of the remans out there. I ended up using a type 2 pump which was a mixture of LS1 4th gen parts, S10 truck, and full-size truck parts that I again rebuilt myself, for both packaging and performance reasons.

That said...

I'm assuming that this is your V6 car, what size tires on what wheels (brand/model, size for both, and the offset or backspacing for the wheels)? Maybe give us a few quick pics of how the car sits (from the side, and then one along each side). Scan/take a pic of the alignment report that was done when you had it done (let's see where it started and what it was ACTUALLY set to, supposedly) The steering is supposed to pivot on the top bearing and the ball joint at the bottom of the strut. If the top bearing was seized it would pivot on the strut rod. I have a hard time believing that any binding that you're getting in this assembly would make it hard to steer/prevent it from returning, possibly excluding what might be caused by a severely bent part (most likely the strut rod), which should have prevented a proper alignment. If possible shoot a quick video with your phone of how hard it is to turn this assembly without the tie rod connected, if it's currently assembled I would love to see a video of the steering not returning (say in a flat empty parking lot turn the wheel a few degrees and show it not returning, not cranked all the way to the stop).

Finally, when is the pump making noise (I'm assuming you're talking about the bypass type noise you get at the end of the steering box travel)? It will not prevent the steering from returning (it should return fine without a working pump on it, just be hard to turn in the first place), but it could be a sign of a steering box problem, air in the system... that would cause other issues.

Setup correctly these things can work really well, but they will not feel like a modern rack and pinion car (I like it better when it's good, but that's me), don't expect it to feel like a smaller, lighter, on a smaller tire, 30year newer car.

I'll try to check in on this thread (I normally tend to look in here once a week if that), but life tends to get in the way after you answer some of this feel free to dm me to get my attention if I disappear.

 

I will see what I can do over the next several days to get some pics etc to post. The car is my V6 and is stock with little mods. I have replaced the suspension with stock parts including coil springs (front and back), did make the Astro Van steering shaft mod (no binding there), had the steering gear box rebuilt, and added a wonder bar. I was running stock size tires and had the problem running stock size but, do to the difficulty with getting good tires in the stock size, I did increase the width a little but not much to get to raised white letter tires. Again, I was having the problem before I changed the tires and the new tires didn't affect it much. The struts have probably less than 10k on them and have not hit anything that could have bent them (unless they came that way new). The strut towers and bearings were new and went in at the same time as the struts.

I had the alignment custom done to specs I found in the table here on the forum for road use. As near as I can check myself, they appear to be correct but I did notice last night that the strut tower adjustment is at the max limit on both sides for camber. That seems a bit strange. Anyway, more in a few days..

Thanks...

 

Have you checked/changed the LCA bushings?

I went through all this getting my car setup. All the same stuff. While an overtight the gearbox could do it, it is easy to isolate so I am assuming that's not it.

For me it was the alignment. I went to two shops four times. The last guy nailed it (he was a different guy than the first visit at the second shop).

Apparently these are not easy cars to align. The tech can get the readings to show correctly and call it a day and think they have it, but they don't. The last guy I used spent over an hour on it and it was finally perfect- no other changes other than the correct alignment. The difference was night and day. Mind the shops I went to are some of the best in the area and the guys were cool to work with and let me get right in there with them. They really tried.

This last guy would slightly raise the K member to make some adjustments, then lower the car back down but also "jounce" it to make sure the car wasn't sitting a little high from just being lowered down.

 

LCA Bushings were put in new at the same time as the ball joints.. They have about 40,000 miles on them... Rear control arm bushings were done at the same time..

I might take it in to a different shop and have it re-checked although I am going to give it a quick check tonight... I have wheel turn tables and the Fastrax tool.. Seemed like the Fastrax tool was not very accurate with the bubble level though...

 

Check the toe setting, sounds like there is too much toe-out.

RBob.

 

What size tires on what wheels? Can you post a picture of the actual alignment report (I'm familiar with the table that gets reposted here, I was probably one of the first to post it to the mailing list that most of the early people here came from, it was Global West's recommendations for different street, autox and drag setups from their catalog back in the '90s, to make it creepier I might still have the original catalog)? With alignment, transpose a number, forget a "-" or move a decimal over and you have a completely different alignment, and your before numbers might give some idea if something was damaged on the car even if the after numbers end up OK. We've also had plenty of people complaining of weird ride problems after putting inappropriate tires or wheels on it. BTW, those recommendations usually run to the strut tower plates being all the way back and/or in.

I'm really trying to help which is why I asked for all those details in a specific way. Please don't take this the wrong way but from what I can tell you're complaining about:

1. steering wander- usually caused by alignment (you claim is good), wrong size/offset/damaged tires/wheels (almost acting like you're avoiding the question), longshot possibly a steering gear problem (you claim is good)
2. steering not centering- exact same list as above
3. the spindle/strut assembly binding with the tie rods disconnected- almost impossible without severely damaged parts, might be a little stiff with new ball joints/strut bearings but would be smooth and not binding. BTW, is it the same on both sides?

so I'm asking specific questions to weed these things out, whether you didn't realize it was somehow screwed up or something you did screwed it up, someone else did something wrong... before we start looking for an arcane/weird solution to the problem.

 

Thanks for all the help. Just realized I needed to come back and close this thread. It was the dust boots over the top of the strut shaft binding and not allowing the strut bearing to rotate. Steering would not return to center and correcting that would I would over steer. Took the dust boots off and it went back to near normal. It wasn't really wandering but wasn't returning to center with little deviations in steering. Everything is still stiff but I don't feel like its going to dive off the road. More like it was normally. However, I still need to replace the worn or broken 7pm pivot pin in the steering, readjust my gear box back a little tighter, and then realign one more time.

 

Thanks for following up. A lot of threads just drop off a cliff or fade off into oblivion. I had a similar experience about a year ago. It was the alignment.

The alignment guys are not nearly as seasoned anymore. I went to several highly rated shops before the last guy finally got it right (TGO specs). And even at that, I had to advise him to jounce the car a few times whenever he put the car back down onto the tires (he would lift it to make certain adjustments). It took him almost an hour of continuous futzing, but he got it nailed and it drives great.

My car had the same symptoms as your before I drove it into his shop and they were gone when I left. No other changes at all.