Hello, I am currently in the process of re-doing the front suspension on my 1989 firebird, which includes a BMR K member, manual steering rack, koni 1030 sport shocks, lowering springs, and Willwood front brakes. I plan on using my car as an autox/road race type of car and so would like to make sure the steering ratio is nice and tight to make cornering easier. I have heard that changing the spindles of a car to have a shorter distance from the point at which the tie rods connect to the spindle would improve this, but all I can find when searching for aftermarket spindles are ones meant for lowering the car, which I wouldn't really like to do any more than that which the new springs are doing. (That would be a bit too low for comfort)

Does anyone know of some aftermarket spindles that have shortened steering links or improve handling? Or any ways people have modified the stock spindles to help with that?
Thought I should check before I put it all back together.

Thanks for the help,
DeltaPi

 

There are no aftermarket spindles available. But considering your intended use for the car I will HIGHLY advise AGAINST the BMR K-member and manual rack. Just because it’s R&P does not mean it’s better than a steering box. If you want good steering get what a lot of guys call the IROC steering box. I’s a much quicker ratio factory steering gear than the more common boxes. I bought mine brand new from Rockauto for $400 a year or 2 ago. If you MUST have an aftermarket K-member look at the UMI road race piece or Heidts piece. They’re more expensive than the BMR piece but for good reason. And don’t go buying some off the shelf lowering springs either. Look up 5.5”x 11” front springs on asphalt/ dirt track oriented race part sites like Speedway Motors. They’ll specify square cut and tangential cut tails, usually under Stock Appearing class rules, and you can pick your rates in 100lbs increments. I’d START shopping at 800lbs and go up from there depending on how much factory equipment you have left in the nose of your car. I’m personally running 900’s with no HVAC, no smog, aluminum heads, headers, but still the stock steel hood. If that’s too much work for you buy Moog 5662’s and cut a half coil off. That’ll give you a higher rate than most lowering springs will. Stick to what you have listed now and you’ll be rebuying in no time. Most of that is drag racing only stuff. The Konis are a good choice. Those are the yellows, right?

 

I would also agree with Silver Chicken and advise against the rack and pinion. Most of the off the shelf stuff is for drag racing not road racing.

The Borgeson seems to get the recommendation these days around here for a quick ratio steering gear.

https://www.borgeson.com/Borgeson-St...7-1-Ratio.html

You will need to cut one ear off to mount and get different bolts but not a big deal. I have one in my car and very much looking forward to using it on the track.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...ml#post6262281

 

​​​​​​Yes, the Koni's I am getting are the yellows, sorry should have specified that. I have sadly already gotten my k member and steering rack, and dont really have it in the budget to change those now, but thank you for the suggestions. As for the springs thank you for that tip, I didnt know about that option. I was trying to be careful when shopping for springs since so many are based for drag racing and therefore have a very low spring rate.

 

Keep your stock parts on or put them back on. You’ll be far better off with stock parts than with those 2 components and unload them for a small loss on some drag racer. Being the rack is manual it’s probably slower than the stock box meaning more turns of the steering wheel per degree of tire turn with increased effort to turn. Bad combo. The k-member is weaker than stock by far for only a minimal loss in weight. I have the non- road race UMI which is a dual tube design unlike the BMR’s single, and I’m strongly considering going back to stock. Think about that. Put the money you get back toward something else more helpful.

 

Detroit speed offers a new steering box for $555 thats a great starting point. Im going to have a few items for sale in the next few months like front koni yellows umi weight jacks with 850 springs

 

I entertained using 2000-2004 Grand Prix aluminum spindles

Alum Mcphereson strut style
3 bolt hub style. Accepts S10 5x 4.75" hubs
Easy big brake upgrades
Shorter steering arm for rack conversions

Seems promising on paper. Didn't get a chance to do any R&D on fitment

 

There's an electric assist system for manual rack and pinion steering. The name company is eluding me but a guy I'm following is building a 5000 HP twin turbo high compression Noonan Hemi engine in a 2000's S10 street truck that uses the system. It looks really slick

 

Yeah but as has been said, almost all the R&P stuff that is out there is slow ratio/drag stuff. I agree with most of the K-members also.

As far as finding a fast ratio IROC/WS6 box, you're either junkyarding or going $$$, a few years back I tried every rebuild that I could find (something like 21 of them), and none that were sold as the fast ratio boxes were correct, almost none were fast ratio, had the right torsion bar or the right stops. What's been happening is the classic muscle car guys have been buying them for years and returning whatever came in their car as a core, it gets rebuilt and chucked in the box without checking the ratio or the stops (f-bodies used narrower 62* swing with bigger in box stops than EVERYTHING else).

In my case, since I've owned 3 WS6 cars I've been holding my own boxes and rebuilding them myself

 

Thanks, I just finished getting the front suspension installed, decided to risk it and stay with the steering rack and stock spindles. If its too bad I'll throw it back on the lift and redo it, I honestly just want to see it running asap.

I have also heard of that, its my plan to add power steering essentially if I find manual steering cumbersome. (I hope to just build up my strength and get use to it, but you never know. )

I also have been looking at a ratio quickener gear box that goes between the steering shaft and the rack and pinion, which seems to be a good priced way of fixing this, if possibly a shortcut. (If it works it works though)
Here is a link on Summit for it: Steering Quickener
I have seen up to a 2:1 ratio (one rotation of wheel is two of the shaft) , which seems like quite a step up. (Plus I bet you could technically put two in line, with the trade off of it being harder to turn the wheel) They are also pretty compact, not that I am lacking space in the engine bay.

 

We've logged thousands of road course and autocross laps in out GTA. If you run it hard, the BMR k member will last about 18 months. That's how long it took for ours to break. We replaced with all UMI and that setup has been solid for almost a decade now. Turn One has limited stock on quick ratio steering boxes. We run their 8:1 ratio box in our cars. Steering is 1.5 turns of the wheel lock to lock. Twitchy on the street but very precise on track.

Invest in good brakes. Those and tires will get you the biggest improvements after lots of seat time. You'll also want to improve driver retention Meaning seats, cage, and 5 or 6 pt harnesses while on track.

 

Hawks has new 1LE spindles available and I have a set sitting in the garage. Most aftermarket disc brake setups can use these spindles.

https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/198...dle-kit-hawks/

 

Be even better if they made them with rack and pinion steering options too

 

New OEM designed spindles sure is better then having no options. The folks at Hawks do listen to their customers.

Very healthy LS engine and Camaro thatsupnow.

 

Thank you sir

 

There are currently no off the shelf spindle upgrades for our 82-92s.
Since we are using inferior McPherson strut suspension, no amount of spindle will solve the terrible handling they naturally have.
Most serious guys will delete the (McDonald's struts) and install a double wishbone with Corvette c7 Hubs.
But that's a LOT of work and money.

My Camaro 2.0 build will probably go that route eventually. But I'm not cutting up my 1st 3rd gen to do that

 

if you go through with this you need to make a post on it. I have doubts that it will work but man, if it does, what an amazing find!

 

Porsche 911 has McPherson strut.

 

Has nobody fitted a 4th gen rack steering system to a 3rd gen yet?? The 3rd gen stuff seems overly complicated and not truck oriented than something for a car.

I'm manual rack and pinion steering and don't regret the decision one bit

 

And when they went with a double wishbone for the current gen 911, it broke all sorts of lap records.
Pearson Strut suspension is inferior.
There's just no way around it.
It is used to lower costs, simple as.
That's why it's often nicknamed "McDonald strut suspension"

 

Also soooo many BMW's. Always considered the "drivers car". Still using it on 2025 models. I think its about the geometry of how they implement it. Yep, Its theoretically not as good as double A, But its what we have.

 

Don't hold your breath. I settled on a 4x4 S10 front suspension for that particular project

FWD spindles are cheap, give it a try. Keep the stock LCA
Biggest unknown is how much caster was baked into the spindles. Rear steer to front steer problems to solve