TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Old 04-12-2009, 11:12 PM
  #401  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Originally Posted by TXBowTie40 View Post
Not trying to detract from or hijack, but wanted to ask Fast if the bin files on Moates site are from your engine when you had the Vortec heads and ZZ4 cam in it?
Still waiting on my heads to get out of the machine shop, have been looking over bins and .xdf files on TunerPro, trying to decide which would be the best starting point, and yours seemed like it might be the closest to what I am gonna be running.
I can load a $0D coded chip into my '8625 PCM and it will work, correct?
I never ran the Vortec heads and ZZ4 cam concurrently. I have always been running a custom grind cam with the Vortecs. It is an aggresive hydraulic roller with 216/228 @ .050 and a ton of lift.

The bin file on TGO is with the stock 350 in a Van. Stock heads and stock cam.
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:02 AM
  #402  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Ah, my bad. I never checked out the file on TGO, only looked at the ones on Moates download site. I looked again and had misread it. It said something like "1995 Fullsize Van 350TBI_4L60E" with additional .bins for "Modified" and "Stage1". I forgot your van is an older model. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:48 PM
  #403  
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Engine: Vortec 350 224/230cam, ported head
Transmission: TH700r4 with vette servo,hd oil pum
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hello guys, I make few datalogs with Fast355 SA table, car runs pretty good , good acceleration with sometimes "thinking in 1400-1800 rpm range" , at this time i think to rise a little SA in 85+KPA load from 1400 to 1800 rpm , edit VE and , and back PE with TPS to normal settings and see how shes run.
Attached Files
File Type: txt
20090413_180401_LOG.txt (419.2 KB, 70 views)
File Type: txt
20090413_182436_BLM.txt (9.0 KB, 73 views)
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:51 PM
  #404  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

This is additional BLM for previous message
Fast i set AE Correction vs. Coolant to 1.00 in trouble area. but shes sneez again when thermostat is opening,after few min of opening thermostat shes ok
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20090413_185911_BLM.txt (9.1 KB, 74 views)
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:26 AM
  #405  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hi there. I drive today with standart TPS treshould and have a problem , she does not want accelerated sharply , during a smooth ride everetyng is ok but when i put pedal more than 50% shes sneez then think and accelerate fluently. also I can not sharply start , I can not skid. BLM is not bad . maby its SA ? but should i rise it or lower ?
Attached Files
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Fast355 350 Vortec 9C1 ver9.zip (371 Bytes, 58 views)
File Type: txt
20090414_074637_LOG.txt (238.2 KB, 58 views)
File Type: txt
20090414_080853_BLM.txt (9.1 KB, 59 views)
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:04 AM
  #406  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

And i found some interesting problem , why my can not have timing advance at all ? how it can be? Ignition Control Module is new , ESC is absolutely work , everything grouned , wire harnes is ok. Can in be a problem in bin ? becouse we check everything onder hood
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:52 PM
  #407  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hello, I have a 1988 camaro rs originally a 305 TBI that has had a 350 TBI swapped into it by the previous owner.

I checked the ecm and prom and its running the factory 1228063 with a 24pin hypertech 305 chip. Unfortunately I managed to break one of the pins off the chip trying to get the plastic holder off of it.

I would like to get into chip tuning and also get the car running again.
From what I've been reading I need to get the moates G2 Adapter
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=36
and a 28 pin ZIF adapter
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=44
to use a 28 pin 27SF512 in my 24 pin ecu. and also the burn2 to be able to burn chips.

Couple questions I had. I know the 1228063 was only used in the 88 camaro. Is this going to cause me a problem? Should I see if I can get a 1228746? (Will this even work?)

if i can stick with the 1228063 what ecu/xdf and bin should I start out with?
I downloaded the 1228063_rom.zip and 8063.ecu file from moates.net but its a bit confusing.

Thanks
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:50 PM
  #408  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

uhh yeah ive been reading this article up and down for a while and know some of what you're talking about but what does all this do do it make the car faster and if so what gains could i expect out my a bone stock L03 motor out of a 92 camaro rs
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:35 PM
  #409  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hey guys i have a gm 350 tbi in my jeep wrangler. it seems sluggish lately and throwing an est code. i was hoping to post my info and have you guys check it out im pretty new to the aldl. i understand blm's some 128 + - 3 is good and over 131 is getting lean rite?

ok while i was logging i was throttle happy but hopefully this can give you some idea of where im at!! oh by the way the exhaust is rich smelling and below are the specs pretty much all stock..

engine 1990 gm tbi swirl port stock heads(these are actually good offroad

headman narrow headers like 1 1/2 i think

dual flowmaster super 44 series no cat's

TBI spacer

4.10 gears

art carr 700r4

35" tires

ok i usually use excel im new to forums and files..lol ..i did attach from notepad and that seemed to work. anyone need different format just walk me through it!!

thanks guys!!
log to send.txt

blms.txt
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:37 PM
  #410  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!




im sorry i forgot to say the computer is 1227747

and here is the pics of what you guys are helping me with!

also... ya ya i know go to a jeep forum but i need pro help!!!












more log files
20090621_130431_LOG.txt

20090715_210515_LOG.txt

Last edited by JeepYJv8; 07-15-2009 at 10:15 PM. Reason: log files
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:19 AM
  #411  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I looked at wide average. I see BLMs from 124-132. that appears normal to me. 124 is not rich and 132 is not lean. With NB02 feedback car is running at stoich as long as BLM are within the range ECU can work with. There is always room to improve the underlying VE tables. this morning cool temps(60d f) here and I was seeing BLMs over 128. I expected that. This PM on ride home in traffice I will see temps at 80F and most likely BLMs at 126-130.

Why the EST? what code?

I cannot read the log.txt only blm.txt.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:22 AM
  #412  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Ronny thanks for your reply.

EST (electronic spark Timing) im not exactly sure of the code #. it was an error flag on win aldl. i did unplug the (est) wire the other day to set timing maybe that set the code?

It just smells rich, seems a little sluggish i hope to be able to send you a log file that you can read later when i get home tonight. And just look at at when u get a chance!

Thanks
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:39 AM
  #413  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I see EST in your reply. missed that. disconnect the battery for 30 secs. May go away. I assume it is connected. I believe you can check EST function with a timing light.

Are you running a appropriate distributor?

Should not be runnin rich as your BLMs are OK. Maybe your AE needs to be addressed? I will assume you are idleing CL so that should be OK as well.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:06 PM
  #414  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

hey i know this thread is getting old but i had a few more questions.
this is my ecm #1227747

ok moates sells a chip adapter called G2X-T.B.I http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=86

Will that and of course the EX remote switch http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=86

and there bottom of the line burner burn 2 http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=197

be all i need besides the chips to tune and hold x amount of tunes on 1 or 2 chips?

Like can i have
#1 stock tune
#2 modified
#3 Race
#4 Valet
#5 and so on

How many different tunes can i hold on 1 chip? this cant be! sounds 2 good to be true

1 @ $85.00 burner
2 @ $5.00 Flash Chip
1 @ $40.00 G2x switch adapt
1 @ $25.00 Remote control
1 @ $00.00 usb cable i already use to log
1 @ $30.00 Software donation
__________________________
$190.00 Bucks

So can i really do all that for $190.. that sounds like a pretty good investment.. please fill me in on the catches??? lol

Im in the process of rebuild w/ mild comp cam and ported heads, im starting to worry it will run like a** without doing some tuning.. engine was out of 6.5k pound truck now in 3.2k pound jeep.. i keep putting tuneing off. plus i need to have this baby ready for an mud bog event in 3 weeks. so does my shopping cart look ok? i know i cant tune and drive like this, but im just trying to start someplace without a load of cash tied up?? please give me your opinions.. should i just use mail order chip rite now? can i start tuning without dataloging first? like will anything save me time later while im waiting on the heads to get returned to me?? thanks for the help!!
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:15 PM
  #415  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Yes, that's all you need. I would not even waste your time witha mail order. After you get all that stuff you just need a little time to do dome datalogging and burning. Follow some instructions at the beginning of this thread and you will be up and running in no time. Trust me, I hae done it.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:42 AM
  #416  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hi Guys.... What am I looking for?

I have been a member of this site for quite a while and gotten tons of information. I would have never gotten this project of the ground without all the stickys and reading and searching forums. I have a 1227747 in a Chevy Corvair w/Dual TBI and DIS ive been running for about 1 1/2 years. Car runs pretty good and but not the peformance I was expecting. (some say the same as carbs)

I see people post the logs from WinALDL and the brains of the forum look at the logs and adjust the bin. Im wondering what as they/we looking for in the logs? I know If we see a knock at 80/2400 RPM, we might want to set the timing back in the SA table and of course get the Fuel Tables done first.

Im starting a new comptuer (1228746) on the Corvair because of the timing issues. I reason that using the IAT may help control the timing as with an Aircooled engine the temp are all over the place and hard to control. When I was using the 7747, I would get it all good, then on a 85 degree day, the knocks would start, but at 75...was fine.

Im not wanting to steal the holy grail, but was wondering what I look for as I drive this car daily and can make tons of datalogs... but I want to make sure Im getting all I can get out of it without pinging its brains out.

Thanks

Ted Brown
Anderson, SC
68 Corvair 110/PG/Dual TBI/DIS

Last edited by corvair_nut; 10-22-2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:59 AM
  #417  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I would agree KC at 80 map could very well be too much timing. KC on moderate acceleration map< 60 might be mechanical in nature.

as far as air cooled engines you are correct to be cautious of excessive timing and lean on A/F. Are you aware you can increase(enrichen) the A/F so as to run in CL a tad fatter than stoich? I have some experience but very dated on air cooled snowmobile engines. One is often too lean or too rich. burndowns can occur at any throttle position. I wonder if any VW owners retro'd their engines to EFI/TBI? crazy thought on my part !

when you say ping I assume you hear the ping audible as motor is near your ear. One way to check on timing is to add 104 octane available generally locally. I am fortunate that I have 2 stations near me. when I have time and $$ I will fill 50/50 92 and 104 oct and see if I can induce real knock and play with SA tables. right now I am certain what i experience is 100% mechanical.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:03 PM
  #418  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!! im already lost

Q
I am using 1227747 ecu Ver, ASDU . I selected my 42.XDF and loaded up my stock bin. Well im looking to start editing some simple stuff like my Rev Limiter and there is no constant for it? on some other XDF's but not the 42 i seen a cut fuel constant and a resume is this the rev limiter. i would like to know the factory setting and adjust. i actually would like it lower.. Can someone please help me with this? I have a few more q's but i dont want to give anyone a headache!!i think ive read this thread 5 times but still just retaining 30%.. thanks all



Please help!!

hardware

burn 2
G2x
remote (ex switch)
zif
27sf512 chip

Software

win aldl
Tuner Pro
Flash n Burn

tuner pro
ALDL

Last edited by JeepYJv8; 11-06-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:00 AM
  #419  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Change to these values
Addr: Value:
$D414 $00
$D415 $AA
$D416 $00
$D417 $AB

What we have done is told the ECM to look up another value other than the PROM ID and put it in the ALDL stream in its position. The thread listed above also tells how to put your total timing into the ALDL stream, very handy. Now our Prom ID field in winaldl will give us a raw hex value for our PW, we then have to take whatever value is displayed and multiply it by .01526 and add in the injector bias value which can be found under the constants menu. This is where putting your log file in excel comes in handy. You can set it up to do the simple math for you. Ok so now we can do a log and see what our PW is getting up to. To get your PW as a % just divide the time available by the time used. The generally accepted limit is 80-85%. Since Rbob already did the math we know weíre going static. It will be a good learning experience to go head and log what static injectors look like. Youíll see the O2 peg rich/lean and feel the loss in power at whatever point the injectors go static.

Can i use this on the 7747 ecm so i can show PW and SA??
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:42 AM
  #420  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I have a 6 Cyl Chev Corvair 110HP/auto running dual TBI 700 and a 1228746. I have it pretty well worked out in Closed loop, but its pretty lazy. When I run it in Open loop it has lots of power and good to drive (Yes I'm running a little rich). I set the enable temp back to 150 degree, it goes into closed loop and I lose my power and temps rise (important on air-cooled motors)

How do I get it to go into open loop (like when in WOT/PE) to get the power and stay closed when on the hiway? Ive screwed with the bin so much, I prob need to start over, but thats been the problem

I'm I ever suppose to use open loop after warm up? I figured out the Corvair likes about 12:1 (estimate) and the 14:1 gives bad performance and the engine runs about 20 degrees hotter.

My point being, Ive spent months getting the BLMs close to 128 (14:1) so it will run weak?. If I read all this right, I get the BLMs at 128 to "calibrate" the ECU to 14.7:1 and then "dump" fuel during WOT and accelerations by adjusting the ECU with WOT settings so the AFR is approx 12:1 where the power is. Am I correct in my basic theory?

I was using a 1227747 ECM, but went to the 1228746 because of the IAT. I felt this might help control knock by controlling SA by using IAT, but there is only 4 lines in that table and the help was minimal, but still using it.

If I am correct in my assumption? what are the fields do I use for WOT in the 61v3 adx? I see a PE AFR, but thats about it. Ive been a member here since Mar 08 and still learn a little every time a re-read the posts

I went to a show to show off my TBI injection and after a couple very knowledgeable Corvair people drove it, they come back and said its about the same as carbs/Distr... maybe a little weaker. I realized I have a problem at that point, I was running only closed loop at the point.......HELP

Thanks

Ted Brown
Anderson, SC
68 Chev Corvair

Last edited by corvair_nut; 11-21-2009 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:17 PM
  #421  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Originally Posted by corvair_nut View Post
I have a 6 Cyl Chev Corvair 110HP/auto running dual TBI 700 and a 1228746. I have it pretty well worked out in Closed loop, but its pretty lazy. When I run it in Open loop it has lots of power and good to drive (Yes I'm running a little rich). I set the enable temp back to 150 degree, it goes into closed loop and I lose my power and temps rise (important on air-cooled motors)

How do I get it to go into open loop (like when in WOT/PE) to get the power and stay closed when on the hiway? Ive screwed with the bin so much, I prob need to start over, but thats been the problem

I'm I ever suppose to use open loop after warm up? I figured out the Corvair likes about 12:1 (estimate) and the 14:1 gives bad performance and the engine runs about 20 degrees hotter.

My point being, Ive spent months getting the BLMs close to 128 (14:1) so it will run weak?. If I read all this right, I get the BLMs at 128 to "calibrate" the ECU to 14.7:1 and then "dump" fuel during WOT and accelerations by adjusting the ECU with WOT settings so the AFR is approx 12:1 where the power is. Am I correct in my basic theory?

I was using a 1227747 ECM, but went to the 1228746 because of the IAT. I felt this might help control knock by controlling SA by using IAT, but there is only 4 lines in that table and the help was minimal, but still using it.

If I am correct in my assumption? what are the fields do I use for WOT in the 61v3 adx? I see a PE AFR, but thats about it. Ive been a member here since Mar 08 and still learn a little every time a re-read the posts

I went to a show to show off my TBI injection and after a couple very knowledgeable Corvair people drove it, they come back and said its about the same as carbs/Distr... maybe a little weaker. I realized I have a problem at that point, I was running only closed loop at the point.......HELP

Thanks

Ted Brown
Anderson, SC
68 Chev Corvair
I do not have first hand experience with air cooled and a TBI, but I can tell you that you need to have a CTS connected and I would mount it directly to the cylinder head. This will give you a fast idle cold and deal with fueling/timing changes as engine temperature changes.

As far as building heat in the engine goes, a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio burns the hottest. Richer and Leaner both burn cooler. Timing that is too retarded will raise cylinder temperatures and make the engine run hotter. I would concentrate on getting the least amount of timing into the program to keep the engine responsive in closed loop. You might find the engine cools itself down as the timing is slowly advance a degree or two at at a time. Permanant open loop can be done by changing a few constants, but I don't feel that is the problem.

Rich mixtures burn much faster than lean mixtures do.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:51 PM
  #422  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post

As far as building heat in the engine goes, a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio burns the hottest. Richer and Leaner both burn cooler. Timing that is too retarded will raise cylinder temperatures and make the engine run hotter. I would concentrate on getting the least amount of timing into the program to keep the engine responsive in closed loop. You might find the engine cools itself down as the timing is slowly advance a degree or two at at a time. Permanant open loop can be done by changing a few constants, but I don't feel that is the problem.
Thanks for the input ad Info and I do use a CTS and not having any problem with that. Im having power problem at low RPM, med throttle.

I have a 2 Speed powerglide and right after the shift and med throttle, the RPM falls to about 1600-1800 RPMs and about 60-70 MAP. There is a dead space there while in closed loop mode. When I put to ClosedLoop temp to 0 (open Loop mode), I don't have that trouble.... so I'm convinced that its a fuel issue. When In wide WOT/PE mode, I don't touch that portion of the table so I don't know.

I don't have a clue how to keep it in closed loop and address the dead space other than open loop mode. Would it be best to get a WBO2 and just adjust everything openloop and make the engine happy?

any thoughts? Im using a 1228746 right now and was using a 1227747 with the same result.

Ted
Anderson, SC
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:00 PM
  #423  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

working on getting my idle RPM down below the 700RPM range..having a bit of trouble doing it tho lol
this is a 305 engine.everything is stock with the exception of the heads,there just standard ol 58cc 305 heads(not swirlport) had to angle the left and right intake bolt holes to allow install.
i'm also using the stock 350 prom, but have adjusted the BPC to 148..
I also stole the spark table from the AJUK 305 chip as a starting point for the timing.
made other minor changes as well but you should see these in the bin file (i hope anyway).
the engine tries to go lower but i guess either theres not enough timing or too much timing,,or not enough vacuum to get it to hold the range any lower than 700 or so..
the bin file attached is ANLW this is for the 1227747 ECM.
can anyone help me get this engine below the 700 range without it constantly going up and down in RPM trying to find a sweet spot.
oh i removed the word sensor from the log file so i could follow the columns abit easier in notepad.
the desired idle speed is set at 700RPM in this bin because i gave up on trying to get it any lower and just set it for 700RPM but it needs to be as low as possible.
please help thanks,
Attached Files
File Type: txt
20100526_143750_LOG.txt (15.2 KB, 55 views)

Last edited by evilminds; 05-26-2010 at 10:19 PM. Reason: left one more thing
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:12 AM
  #424  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I was fooling around since i had no more hair to pull out trying to get the idle down..without disconnecting the dizzy bypass wire i hooked up my timing light to the No 1 plug..and no surprise i couldnt see the timing marks.. well i didnt feel like diconnecting the bypass wire so i simply hooked up to the No 6 plug wire to check the timing .
so that got me wondering about the timing table..keep in mind just goofing around here :-) anyway.. in my case for example in the bin file attached earlier under 400RPM @40kpa it has 22.15 so i was wondering exactly what that might be in real numbers..so someone correct me if my fiddling around with the timing light and coming up with my math equation is wrong 22.15 in real time would be 5.53* BTDC ? is that right? or would it be 11.07* BTDC

Last edited by evilminds; 05-27-2010 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:39 PM
  #425  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

ok i think i may already be on my way to finding out why i cant idle below 700 to 750 or so,,
i noticed looking at the VE table in file attached that it didn't look right around the 400 @30kpa regions..350 VE table...so i swapped in the VE table from another 305 bin file.
after making a few adjustments to the timing removing some knocks that were popping up in winaldl , So after redoing all of that the idle is now at ~800RPM in CL..still getting a few knocks in the 400 to 600RPM range..so i'm hoping that after i get rid of those..my lower idle will be ok..gonna upload the new bin and the latest log..log is very short was running low on petro :-) so i shut it off
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:17 PM
  #426  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hey guys (I am kinda new to the whole datalogging bit) but I am trying to figure out what is going on with my 87 Iroc. Basically the Camaro is running rich (or it smells that way), it lopes and stumbles at low rpms, occasionally backfires, and attempts to die (but recovers and will not completely die). It's not throwing any trouble codes so I decided to make an ALDL cable and start downloading data to try and find out what is going on. Now I have data that I don't really understand and I'm hoping that someone can shed some light on stuff. I've attached both the txt data log file and a zipped Excel spreadsheet (the spreadsheet is easier to read, not as jumbled). I'm quite confused and it's getting to be a pain driving up to stop signs and street lights (not to mention parking lots); I'd love to just start replacing stuff, but I dont have the cash to start throwing at sensors. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:42 PM
  #427  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hi, cw3adkins is your foot on the gas keeping it running or is this log with the motor running all by itself? the reason i ask is because your TPS is all over the place, not mention the BLM's..second question post your bin please..because this was the exact same problem i had..it wouldnt keep a steady RPM under 1000RPM or so.. also noticed the IAC steps seem a bit high for the RPM..i'm no expert by any means,,i'm sure someone with more knowledge will pipe in here shortly with a better take than mine..but my thoughts are check the TPS voltage,,and the timing .
what ecm is in the vehicle? just curious to see if i already have the bin file or not :-)

Last edited by evilminds; 06-03-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:52 PM
  #428  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Originally Posted by evilminds View Post
Hi, cw3adkins is your foot on the gas keeping it running or is this log with the motor running all by itself? the reason i ask is because your TPS is all over the place, not mention the BLM's..second question post your bin please..because this was the exact same problem i had..it wouldnt keep a steady RPM under 1000RPM or so.. also noticed the IAC steps seem a bit high for the RPM..i'm no expert by any means,,i'm sure someone with more knowledge will pipe in here shortly with a better take than mine..but my thoughts are check the TPS voltage,,and the timing .
what ecm is in the vehicle? just curious to see if i already have the bin file or not :-)
Hey thanks for the response; the file that I uploaded was a hiccup on my end (I uploaded the log from when I was driving around; this new zip file of Camaro_Idle.xls is a log of it just idling under its own control). I know that the ecm is 1227165 and I'm not quite sure by what you mean in reference to a bin file...I'm using WinALDL if that helps any.
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:33 PM
  #429  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Hi ya,, well i'm guessing that the eprom in the 1227165 is ABUN,,which if correct should be the letters right after the 1227165 on your ECM,,
a bin file is the information that is on the chip in your ECM.
If your o2 sensor and BLM's are showing right..i dont think i would be driving this vehicle for long...
you just might come back a few pistons short.
BLM reading of 128 is 14.7:1 which is where ya want to be +/- 1 or 2
any reading above 128 is lean
any reading below 128 is rich
your ecm is running at rock bottom rich..from the BLM table i didnt see until just now

so if you havn't messed with the timing at all,,and it just up and started this problem,and the o2 and the BLM readings are right, i would say the eprom has become corrupted ..you really wont know if its the eprom until you have it read with an eprom reader/writer..
where bouts in OH are you.
I have a reader and writer if you want to have the chip read . from there you can post it up and then someone might be able to figure out what might be happening.
shoot me a yahoo PM , if you want the prom read..hehe i almost typed palm read.

Last edited by evilminds; 06-04-2010 at 07:21 PM. Reason: corrected a few errors..
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:46 PM
  #430  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Yeah, so I think I figured out why the Camaro was running the way it was. The computer that was in it (most likely from PO) was a Reman with lovely little jumpers soldered in. Had to hunt down a computer out of a S10 in a junk yard. Low and behold, after the swap it runs much better without issues.
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:09 PM
  #431  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

hehe well i was in the ballpark, then? eprom..ecm..had to be one of the 2 i guess lol

glad you got er figured out :-)
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:51 AM
  #432  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I am an old Carburetor guy and so the last 2 years of playing with my TBI systems and reading info on here has been to say the least an major education but i feel like i am still stuck in Kindergarten. I know this is my first post and hope this is the right thread, I became a member back in April and have spent the time since then just reading and getting more lost. SO hopefully i can ask here and get pointed into a few more specific dirrections that might get be back on course because right now i am adrift

What I have is an AMC 401 in a jeep which had a Howell injection system on it(what a bad investment that was, i could have built this myself for 1/2 the money). the idle was horrible and the system was always over fueling. Attached is thier original bin file they sent with the system. After extensive reading on here i scrapped that bin file and started from scratch with a 454 AMUR bin file that I hoped would help with the idling issues.

I have the craig moates, flash adn burn, burn II, and all other moates parts asnd pieces that were necessary. i soldered in the chip adapter for the 28 pinn chips, invested a donation towards the guys that created tuner pro and have started burning my own proms. I have a data cable, plenty of chips and winaldl for data recording and feel comfortable enough getting data off and modifying the VE table #1 to get the BLM #'s into the 128 ball park.

The system is a no spark system, I have an HEI one wire distributor that i curved for this motor. When we did the first start up it was on an engine dyno with a holley 670 this motor fresh on the second pull made 348 hp 427 ft/lbs see attached sheet for actual engine dyno numbers. It ran fantastic and the timing was spot on for good power on the dyno so it has not been changed since, though still checks out. I doubt i am anywhere near that now (maybe 175 or 200hp and 300-330 ft lbs now since putting the TBI on trying for two years to get it to even run worth a hoot. the timing on the motor has not changed so my challenge is in getting the fuel on and figuring out the pump shot, dont even care about getting over 300 hp just want some or most of the power back. I used the Wide map O2 sensor, the computer is a 7747 and there is no VSS and no spark control.


Displacement 407 cu inches
TBI holley 670 with 85 lbs/hr injectors rated at 15 psi, running at 15 psi with a BPW of 113 entered into the program now
performer dual plane intake
ported exhaust on the heads with ported manifolds
Cam
  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .484/.507
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
Compression ratio 9:1

This is in a jeep that idles extremely low so stall saver and ?IAC park positions were adjusted to get good off road behavior. i found a post by grumpy on setting the TP's to keep the IAC at or around zero at idle and that has helped alot with offroad behavior

What i adjusted in constants
BPW to 113
EGR settings set to levels high enough to prevent activation
open loop idle forced off to 1350 rpm, enable at 1000 rpm
IAC park to 90

Switches are set to keep spark off, VSS off etc pretty minimal system.
-----
Closed loop idle speed changed to 600 rpm
stall saver vs baro was 24 set to 0
stall saver cut in rpm was 32 set to 1
stall saver cut out was 42 set to 1
run park delay was 40 now 20
idle delay was 2 now 0
position after motor reset 105 kpa and 95 kpa was 40 now 0
IAC postion vs coolant temp all above 133*F were 24 now set to 0
Warm 02 closed loop timer was 10 sec now 1.5 sec
minimum rpm to consider engine running was 500 now is 200 rpm
open idle enable delay was 4 sec now 2 sec.
----------------

Those are the only things i have changed in this program.

I got lost on the several threads about adjusting the rich lean O2 readings to smooth the idle out more and to impact the AFR. I was playing around with rich/lean and mean 02 thresholds moving things out to .650 mv on rich and .450 lean and .550 mean but that did little to help my idling issues and the excel table created by JP88SS was over my head and from Robbs articles and that thread with JP88SS's table it seems that i need to adjust stoich and open loop and closed loop AFR's all to 12.5:1 but i decided i was really getting outside my league without understanding anything.........and needed to step back and check

So where i am at is up to 3200 rpm i can get 128 blm numbers all day long and have a smooth throttle and fuel map. Idle occasionally gets hung up in closed loop and then my surge (50-100 rpm) comes back but otherwise the idle creep and wild swings are gone. I suspect changing open loop idle speed activation to 0 mph and then adding a speed sensor may help me force the system to kick into open loop idle all the time but that is a minor issue. driving down the highway i have no issues it is smooth in transition and exhaust smells fine though i would like to drop my AFR down to 12.5:1 at stioch and all others since i dont have any cats. Then I would love to figure out how to get the ponies and torque back into this motor. I saw several threads where Robb discussed this but i was lost in his terminology.

I did a system for my AMC 360 in my other jeep that has no issues with a 350 TB unit and mild 350 program tuning but this cam'd motor and larger cubic inch has been a beast to figure out. Over the last 2 years I've figured out how to set the BPW, and get the idle settled down and at least get past the black smoke pouring out the tail pipe and now have decent mileage etc (that took a year) but now getting into the actual tuning and attempting to get my HP back has overwhelmed me and driven me almost to the point that i am about to dig out my old Double pumper or Rochester and throw this new fangled stuff in the garbage but the challenge keeps me coming back to try again. Some of Robbs articles have had my eyes popping out and head spinning in circles

I keep a log of everything i do and so far, so i know what ive down and where i am at and how to get back to anywhere i have been previously. I am at a loss and looking for a little guidance on where to go from here. obviously I've probably made a ton of mistakes. If you feel so generous i could use a few pointers and a little guidance to get back on the right path. I tend to get a little over whelmed trying to understand all of the language everyone uses but i'll do my best to keep up.




Attached is the original / last Howell bin file they sent me after 9 or 10 bins that never worked i had to finally take maters into my hands (yikes BPW was 143)???
Attached is my current AMUR bin file
Attached is my most recent log and BLM table
attached is my original engine dyno pull numbers from when i built this mild 9:1 motor 2 years ago

Any help or chewing is welcomed and at this point needed.

Thank you
Dusty

update since theres been no activity on here this week:
working on it from this angle for now. this thread here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...what-do-2.html seems to be on par with what i might be missing


-------------------
update since its beena month and i am either asking the wrong question or putting for the wrong info i'll clamb back in my hermit shell and keep going about things. maybe i provided too much info that doesnt all coincide. well if anyone ever does read this I could sure sue some help or a little direction to get me back on course.
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Last edited by ddestruel; 08-27-2010 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:31 PM
  #433  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

If I am not seeing any knock counts does that mean I can increase the timing intil I do?
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:47 AM
  #434  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Not necessarily. I read using KC is not the best way to tune for HP/TQ. Best way is on dyno.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:48 PM
  #435  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Where is the fueling and spark table for closed loop when the motor is cold? Or what are they called in tunner pro? Car drives like dog dodo untill shes warmed up.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:25 AM
  #436  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

closed loop when the motor is cold
closed lopp is when engine is warm. > 155dF.

open loop is when cold < 155dF plus a choke modifier and crank mod.

There is an OL table for A/F. I believe there is a coolant compensation table for SA.

There may be other modifiers as well. generally grouped together in the mask,xdf.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:18 AM
  #437  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Which AE table to in modify to increase the PE or pump shot?
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:06 AM
  #438  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

PE is different than AE.

AE vs TPS% also a filter
AE vs MAP "

AE vs RPM

PE onset vs TPS%

PE vs RPM

Last edited by Ronny; 10-06-2011 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:02 PM
  #439  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
PE is different than AE.

AE vs TPS% also a filter
AE vs MAP "

AE vs RPM

PE onset vs TPS%

PE vs RPM
OK so what one do I change or do I just increase all of them? PE vs RPM would be my guess.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:09 PM
  #440  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Car drives like dog dodo untill shes warmed up.
Is this the issue?

May not need AE nor PE changes.

warmed up is coolant > 165F. You may need richer OL fuel. See OL-RPM-MAP tables. A/F ratio can be increased. Do a little at a time and see effect. Like 14.7 can move to 14.5.

Go to dynamicefi and read intro part 2.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:28 PM
  #441  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

No she runs fine when warmed up Im just goofing around with tables and seeing how it effects drivability. I have a single plain intake on there and I think I read that more pump shot would be needed because the intake moves more air??? I just don't seem to have good WOT acceleration. I've been moving the VE table around just to see how the car will respond. Could someone post a pick of the graph of what their high speed VE table looks like for comparison to mine.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:45 PM
  #442  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

the single plane has more surface area that needs to be wet as well. WOT is intially AE than it ceases and PE right after. MY PE is set 12.8 to 12.5. Not much to do there cept the VE tables need to be close upon entry to PE or it will use what is present in VE. < 128 rich it will use 128. >128 lean it will use the 134-138-144 or what ever.
Do you have a decent fuel pump?
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:56 PM
  #443  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Yes im using the TPI fuel pump with the FPR set at 15psi.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:39 PM
  #444  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

I just don't seem to have good WOT acceleration.
Seems you need to determine if you are rich or lean in VE tables. when you go 100% TPS you will rise up the tables at 90-100 MAP to your RPM that you shift. It is possible you are way to heavy on gas in upper VE table or possibly lean as well. What .bin are you using in EBL? I would guess table is too fat. Pull 5% at a time from 80-100 MAP and see if you improve.

Lets assume your ignition is OK.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:43 PM
  #445  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Ignition should be good. I'm using the lo3 bin that came with the ebl cd with the tpi sa tables since I'm using 081 heads. Disabled the egr and raised the lean cruise min so ve learn can work longer. I think im gonna start over with the stock tbi bin. When i get on the gas heavily I can feel the motor choke and when I let off a bit it seems to correct itself temporarily. Im probably rich. Can only get the ve learn to work under 3500 or so till ae and or pe kick in.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:28 AM
  #446  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

So you cannot hold throttle steady at say 3600 rpms without involking AE and PE? I thought if you hold steady that should not happen. Anyway mine does not.

You can set the TPS% number higher for PE. I did so to hit higher MAP/RPM cells but not sure if was necessary. AE should time out for sure if steady throttle.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:58 AM
  #447  
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Re: Come in for a FREE tune!!!!

Originally Posted by iggy1991 View Post
Where is the fueling and spark table for closed loop when the motor is cold? Or what are they called in tunner pro? Car drives like dog dodo untill shes warmed up.
Looking at some of your changes to IAC paremeters in your first post here seems you went the wrong way. When I have done a cammed motor lots of things need changed for cold start and you only get one chance a day to try it, so time consuming. Only do one a day. First I would set those IAC paremeters back to stock. Park postition was 145 but I change it to 199 so more air is coming in to start. really helps cold start on built engines.

Other things to work on for cold start are, but not limited to:
SA - Startup Filter
IAC - Park Position
IAC - Max Steps (needs to match IAC park)
IAC - Position vs Temp (goes with 2 above)
Choke - Coolant Hot/Cold Thres
IAC - Fuel Adder While Opening
IAC - %TPS for Closed Throttle (needs to be set according to data info)
IAC - Idle Error Tolerance (Deadband) (Increase)
IAC - MPH Threshold for Idle (if you have VSS)

For your issue above 3600 RPM I have seen this before on aftermarket EFI conversion systems that are fuel only. To run fuel only there needs to be a tach filter to change signal going into ECM to a square wave, which normally comes from the EST module in distributor. Don't know what/why but maybe some of the ol experts in electrons here do?

Since you have a HEI distributor I don't know why you wouldn't lock out advances and change module to EFI type? Then you would have spark and fuel. You can get your timing curve with dial in timing light and RPM...

HTH!
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