Pablo please do not close this because I think that everyone on here needs to see this.
I am not real vocal on this site, I mostly look around to see what other people are doing/saying. But I am just tired of always seeing "dont build up that engine put this one in your car".
I am 18 years old and drive a highly modded 89 RS(355, modded 700r4, 3.73's, basically the works) that will run in the mid to low 13's all day until I get TPI, then 12's. But my car wasn't always fast, 2 years ago it was a stock TBI 305 which wasn't fast. I did some mods and got it running a sort of respectable 15.7 quarter mile for a few hundred bucks.
Basically what I am saying is that when I was 16 that 170hp beast was the greatest thing in the world to me. I think that everyone in here needs to lose the "305's are boat anchors" attitude and start supporting their fellow thirdgen owners. And when people ask how to mod their 305 TBI, if you dont know any useful information about dont say "build a 350 or a 383" or some other big engine. Most people just want a car that gets decent mileage and has enough a$$ to be a few ricers and stangs at the stop lights.
I say to anyone who still has the 305, do whatever the hell you want to it and enjoy it 300,000+ miles down the road.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR CARS

sorry I just felt someone needed to say this

 

I agree, Pablo don't close this thread. Hey man, in all seriosness. I agree with u. Heck look at my engine and its mods in my sig! I have done a lot to my 305. and I would recommend anyone that has a 305 to do similar mods like I have. I get 18.5mpg city and that is 1.5 better then stock gas mileage. But when people say to throw on heads, a cam, intake I think its dumb to waste that kinda time and money. Thats what I am talking about (I know your talking about me in that post ) So don't get me wrong. 305 is a great first time engine and great to get you started and to play with. But eventually, like you did, we must move on to bigger and better things. you get me?

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

91BIRD,
That was the post that finally made me go nuts but your definitely not the only one. I just think they are looking for something dependable and kinda quick. NO hard feelings intended. I saw a guy at Maryland International raceway with a 88 RS 305 w/ a 400 crank open headers and a 1050 cfm carb run 12's. Now that probably got 1 mpg on a good day but it gives 305 guys some hope.

 

yeah, thats great to hear

 

The stock intake sucks and would be great to replace. Pablo made a good point along time ago with his single plane intake. The stock TB is 400cfm. and with a dual plane intake each side of the engine only "sees" 200cfm. with the single plane, you let the engine use as much of the 400cfm as possible. All the open elemnt mods made a big difference on my car. Making the Formula hood functional makes a VERY obvious difference with the slightest cold air around. 1.6 roller rockers are a great mod. it gets more lift out of that crappy cam with minimal work and can be used on any self aligning head sbc such as an LT1, LT4, Vortec etc.


------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

Well said, unless you got positive info, or positive comments, dont reply. If you disagree with somebody, say it, leave it at that. Dont pull the Al Gore and personally attack him directly after.
I also would like to see, the "My car could beat your car wine" dissapear, while other people are trying to help somebody decide what they could do to improve their car.

Thats another thing, not everybody is here to re-invent their motor, or run 12's tomorow. Some of us are here to MODIFY, and like to see the little changes each additional modification adds to the character of our cars. For the least cost to enjoyment ratio.

If I wanted to build a race car, I would do everything at once, but for most of us, these cars are our daily drivers, and we have at most a few hundred bucks every once and a while to spend on em. We want a little bit better car, a little bit at a time, for a little bit of money.

So to repeat, if i ask somebody what i should do as my next MODIFICATION to my 305.
I and nobody else wants to hear, drop in a 350. We arent retarded and if that were an option, we wouldnt be asking about our 305.

Is that clear 91bird305.
If I want to put heads and a cam on my 305, dont argue with me, or tell me im stupid.
Sorry, had to pick on you just a little bit, so you could wine and have something to write about here on the bb's.
Just kidding.

 

Dude, u guys are ******. Didn't any of you read my posts from this thread? I ENCOURGED modifying your LO3! I think it is a great engine to start with and I will admit, its fun to work on and knock off 1-2 seconds off its orignal 1/4 mile time. to me that is a great accomplishment and I think to everyone that would be. But when people start saying that a modified 305 is much faster and better than a modified 350 thats when I say something. If you guys will look back in the posts, I only pointed out bad things about the LO3 because people were arguing with me asking me "why put a crate engine to replace your LO3?" "Just put a blower on it!" Thats when I argued. Seriously guys, lay off me a bit. I think the LO3 is a great engine to learn and get started on and a great daily driver. But as a drag/strip engine it is not. Thats what the debate was about.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

SNFLU well put. I would say a great (big) first mod would be gears. I would say go with 3.73. My friend juat had 4.10s in his camaro and i think they are a little to much. 3.42s arent the ideal set up for the 1/4. Those maybe better for 1/2 mile. IMO Shift inprover kits are kool to. they let u give out a nice bark into 2nd but i heard they can be rough on ur tranny. Intake and exahaust would also be good mods.

But when people start saying that a modified 305 is much faster and better than a modified 350 thats when I say something

Ummm guys?? does n e one else remember saying this????

------------------
Bright red 1989 firebird
305 TBI (stock)
5 speed
16x8 inch WS.6 wheels
T Tops
richmond 3.73s
Custom professionally done car audio system
tinted windows
Tail light blackouts
58000 origional one owner miles

 

No i dont remember that,
and dude, i said i was just kidding.
A little thin skinned are we?
Notice, no one else gets the same criticism you do. But that must be because we are ******. You couldnt have brought it upon yourself.
Are you one of those guys that thinks the whole world is against you. Shallow.

[This message has been edited by snflupigus (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

I take issue with one thing you said.. you said when you get TPI youll run twelves


Why?

 

Pablo,

everyone I have talked to has told me how I am restricting this egines performance with my almost stock TBI. I used most of your Ultimate mods and I must say thank you b/c I did notice a significant gain especially at higher rpms. I came across a real good deal for TPI and I took the offer because I have heard from numerous people that with TPI I should be in the mid to high 12's. This really wasnt the issue I was trying to address. I have just put too much time, money, and energy into this car to have it restricted. I thought about the 670 cfm but I just liked the sound of this better.

 

Sorry snflupigus, didn't see the joking part. My bad man. No, I ain't one of those guys. But I can take ya back to any of the posts where it was said a blower on a LO3 would be better than a 350 anyday. Just go look at the thread. ONEFINE8T9, 3:42's I think are the best setup for a street/strip car and I think a lot of people would agree with me on this. You just think 3:73's are the best because their your first set of gears. I know because I had 3:73's too. 3:73's are pushing it street/strip wise and 4:10's on up are drag basically. Cause after 60mph with 3:73's and a low hp engine and torque, your pretty much done. But its your car. Do want u want. Thats just my opioion and thats yours. No flame intended. (Geez, maybe I should put that after all my posts so I don't have to defend my posts everytime.)


------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 19, 2000).]

 

Well, I hate My third gen, now... It has lost SO much value (compared to other cars) that to sell it would be the biggest waste of My time and money that I could've ever imagined. I'm tired of cowering to mustangs and imports.. ***** little teenagers laughing out the window as they easily pass Me by.. My 5% limo tint is most usefull in that situation... so, I can roll it up and hide My face in shame. My car isn't worth even 1/4 of what I payed for it... and it was 4 loooong years that it took to pay off the loan on it. I WAS a proud third gen'ner... now, I'm just ashamed to be here... I think My car is for sale... yeah, it's for sale.
(My signature is SO true)

------------------
Everything I know I learned by messing it up at least once.

 

cobrakiller

did i read you right? you are running low to mid 13s with the STOCK throttle body?!?
thats incomprehensible!

 

Cobra, with the type of mods you probably have to get a TBI car going that fast a TPI unit will probably slow you down.

I can't believe I said it but is is the truth. If you feel like switching to TPI try an Edelbrock base, aftermarket runners, ported plenum and a larger TB. Stock TPI's that run 12's a few and far between, modded as I stated and running 12's are almost as rare. How about trying a mini-ram?

 

Pablo,
I said almost stock.
I had a friend of mine make me 1 and 3/4 inch throttle blades and had my machinist bore the throttle body and intake to that size. It really paid off in great dividends. Other than that I have a custom chip that my uncle burned(not bad and especially since it was free it makes it better than most) and few other free mods. I never said that I didnt like TBI I simply said that I was converting to TPI to try something else.

 

Pablo,
Here is my most recent time slip.
ET-13.3752
RT-0.6734
SPEED-101.6604
60FT-1.8650
330FT-5.478
1/8 MILE-8.5076
1000FT-11.1373

I dont know what else to tell ya

 

Dude, I just have to ask for the time slip. Post the actual one. I have to see it to belive it. I am so sorry man.

 

Why WOULDN'T a 350 TBI be able to run 13s? its been done. just because TPI 350s are in the 14s. OOOooo. TPI is the maginal go fast box, right?

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

91BIRD though 3.73 was my first set of gears i have done excessive research and called several speed shops around my area. Thats when i came to the conclusion that 3.73 was my best bet. I dont do trial and error with my car. I get it right the first time. no flame intended also.

TAS i agree with u, alot of people think that tpi is the magic go fast box. COBRAKILLER i dont mean u i am just saying alot of people are like that.

 

Just mention a 305 engine to some people and they think it's s**t. Any engine has the potential for improvement. Has anyone here ever heard of American Sedan racing that is an SCCA class for Third-gen f-bodys and the Mustangs. Both have to run 5.0 engines and now days they are well into the 400 h.p. range. On the pro side of things the Trans-Am series also run 5.0 [310c.i.] single four barrel V8's with 650 h.p. It's just what you like and have the budget for.

 

that time is unreal man... i take it that was on slicks and you must have a high stall converter or a 5 speed correct? i see most people with that trap speed in the upper 13s. I cant help but think that a bigger throttle body, single plane, and lots more fuel would slingshot you deep into the twelves. But you can get a tpi to go fast too. May i suggest siamesing the base for the first 4 inches in.. .that should give you the top end you need

 

SLP has the simesed runners for $200. lol the tpi runners alone are as much as a single plane EFi I want.

 

My tires(and wheels) were a friends 275/45/zr17's off of his s-10. They grab really well. Your 100% correct about a stall converter but not that big just 2400. Last week the 700r4 came out and got its 3rd rebuild since Ive owned the car. I just got it back today with a 2800 stall, and hopefully it will be the last rebuild for a while. One more thing I hhave no reason to lie to you about my 1/4 mile times, it doesn't make me get a b0ner or anything. The car also wants to die off between 4500-5000rpm and I would like to shift it around 5500 or 6000 but I just dont think its getting enough air.

 

Thats great onefine8t9, but I think the best way is to actually feel it for yourself. Thats what I did and I notice the car pulls better after 60mph. You would notice it if you rode in my car and then yours after 60mph. Cause I don't usually race people only up to 60mph. If u had a high hp engine or high torque engine it wouldn't really matter after 60mph cause then the high numbers would kick in but with a stock LO3, there aren't much numbers there to help after the gears are done.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

 

well like i said i did extensive research when chooseing my gear combonation. BTW how do u figure a taller gear to pull better with a lower #ed motor. Wouldnt the shorter gear be easier on the motor therefore making topend faster?

 

Motors are *generally* better at either generating torque or horseposer. Torquey motors make their power down below 3500 rpm.
Horsey motors make their power above 3500 rpm.
It is also true that a high rear end ratio
above 3.50 has the engine pushing less inertia gain per every 500 rpm the engine gains. Torque twists the wheels which generates motion forward and gives you inertia gain.
If your engine is a real sreamin horsepower monster making say 395 HP at 6000rpm and your fastest time is with 3.73's, and you blew that bad boy up and built an engine with 400ftlbs of torque at 2750 rpm, you could actually drop your gearing a little and
gain speed in the 1/4 mile.
With a 3.73 to 4.11 you can actually spend too little time in the rpm zone where your engine makes the most power.
On my motorcycle (an FZR1000 (10.6 sec.1/4))
I had to learn to shift "early at 10500 rpm
instead of going to 11500 at every shift. That was because my engine drops off power wise from 10750 to 11750rpm. By shifting lower i keep the power from my engine at the highest i can in every gear.

Another weird thing we hit on motorcycles (straight drives all of them) is that the factory gearing and the engine power output have to be matched so that when you shift from 1st to 2nd you are still in the powerband.

One guy had 138 RWHP from his FZR1000 and he ran high 10.4's in the quarter. He thought he had another fellow beaten hands down caus e the other guy only had 126RWHP. These guys went for a drag race and the low HP bike ran a 10.32? against the high HP bike's time of 10.48?. The secret was that the 126RWHP bike crossed 100Hp at 6750rpm. The 138HP bike crossed 100HP at 8000rpm. For
1250rpm the 126RWHP bike made over 15HP more.

I plan to build my car for torque and a max
HP at 4500rpm. because of this I plan on using 3.42 gears. Well this and the fact that I can blindly pull a rear from a 1988 or later V6 5spd car and get a 3.42 non posi drum brake rear with 28 spline axles. I'll then pick up a Torsen from SLP, assemble it out of the car, put it in and enjoy.

Mike

 

Cool Mike. Knows his stuff