I am looking into the Stroker kits by Engine Kits and it costs only $600. I was wondering if anyone has this stroker kit in their LO3 and if its worth it. I think there are some upgrades but I am buying my flexplate from whatever that badass company is called that does Awesome transmissions. Anyway let me know the effects and if anything else besides what comes with the kit is recommended.

-In A Full Passion Of Hate Towards Front Wheel Drive

 

How do you define "worth it"?

 

IDK isnt $600 a little cheap? I thought it was.

 

"Cheap" depends on the parts used. Are they cast or forged? Are they actually going to take some abuse? It's true that in retail you pay a premium for a name brand. At the same time, that premium is usually worth the cost.

It's also been pointed out that "worth it" is very, very subjective.

If you don't know, you will need to have your engine block machined to accept the longer stroke of the crank and you cain't just toss a new set of pitsons in. The cylinders will need to be bored over.

I lost the second part of the article where Super Chevy built a 335 stroker from a 305 for a giveaway third gen. It documented the gains of the stroker kit and various upgrades on a carb and then when they switched it over to TPI. It made a nice amount of power and had a flat line of torque at the motor. Here is where that subjective part comes into play and understand I wanted to stroke my 305 for the longest time. You can make more power and torque by destroking a LT1/LT4 down to a 302. You can probably even do it cheaper than stroking a 305. I would assume you could use that crank in a typical 350 as well seeing as how a LT1/LT4 is still considered a Gen I block just like our third gens.

In the end, it's all about what you want to pay vs what you want to get out of it. I mean you could always put forged pistons, rods, and crank on your 305 and toss 25 lbs of boost on it with a few other mods and run 10s all day long. Storking that would dip you even further. Or you could just pick up a LT1/LT4 or a LSx and with the right driving skills and factory torque pattern, run in the 12s all day long. Hell throw a 150 shot on your 305 and clock off 13s with the right combo of parts.

 

When you decide if it's "worth it", consider that the equivalent kit to build a far superior 383 is only $500. The $100 difference more than offsets the cost of the different block you'd need.

 

http://shop.enginekits.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=341

Thats the kit.

Let me know about it.

P.S. No NOS for this guy. EVER!

 

I dont have the money right now to buy a 350 and stroker kit and swap it in. I am sure I am going to keep my 305 and wait to buy another 3rd gen with the 350 already in it. Thats good to know though...for when I do get my 350.

 

It's the same cost or less to build the 383 than the 335 you're looking at.

 

That's actually the kit Super Chevy used. There are better pistons and cranks though. Not sure on those rods they're using.

Just look at all your options. Last thing you want is buyer's remorse especially on the total you're likely to invest. The 383 build took a lot longer to come up than I thought it would lol . . .

 

Maybe but I already have a 305...that I am already investing money into. I just wanted to know quality and performance of this kit.

I would like a 350 but not until my 305 puts out at least 300hp or tq whichever comes first. Im not using my 305 for top end or anything. Its going to be my drifter, track car. My 350 will be my drifter street racer as a 350 has tons more top end. Thats how I feel I want to get things done.
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You had/have a 383? How much invested already?

I see you have a 305 tbi too. The LO3? right. What are your plans with your motor....power and reliability wise.

 

LOL, sorry. I meant that anytime a 305 gets mentioned, much less stroking one, a 350/383 gets brought up almost right away. I do have the 305 and plan on sticking with it. Plans are heads, intake manifold, a bigger cam (in the 500s), then either juice or boost or both.

I did find that article though. The stroker kit, a mild cam, stock heads, an Edelbrock intake, and a Rochester carb turned 269 HP @ 4900 RPM and 327 ft-lbs of torque @ 3600 RPM at the motor. That's a decent boost from the 170 HP the motor was rated at from the factory.

Then they tossed in a Comp Cam (more mellow than the first cam) that had .444"int/.444"exh, 212 deg int/218deg exh duration @ .050" of lift, and 114 deg of lobe seperation. They also used a double roller chain set with Magnum 1.5:1 roller tip rocker arms and new pushrods. A set of S/R torquer 305 heads from World Products got bolted on and they kept the intake and the Rochester carb. This time it pulled 300 HP @ 5100 RPM and 347 ft-lbs of torque @ 4300 RPM at the motor. In short, these changes gained 31 HP and 20 ft-lbs of torque.

The next changes included going to TPI, not TBI, 1.6:1 rocker arms, MSD Pro-Billet "ready to run" external coil distributor, and a 6AL control box. This time it pulled 301.7 HP @ 4700 RPM and 381 ft-lbs of torque @ 4700 RPM at the motor. This is why TPI both rocks and sucks at the same time. If it wouldn't shorten the power band it would be lethal. But that's what a LT1/LT4 does.

It should be noted that full length headers and mufflers were used on all testing but it never says the details of them.


Anyway that's the bulk of the article. It did make power but the cost to performance ratio keeps me from doing it. If the block didn't have to be altered and my motor had more than 5000 miles on it I might go for it. As it stands though I don't think the stroker was the bulk of the gain in the first test. The cam was. The factory cam is garbage. Replacing it is, IMO, the best upgrade on a 305 TBI. I would wait to do that though if you want to go higher than mid 400s on the lift. Those World Heads will let you run a much larger cam.

Most people here say you need a tune to drive one of these with a cam. I didn't. Yes it died at every stop but that's because it lost oil pressure and the cutoff switch kicked in to shut down the engine to protect it. I'm still thinking it is an issue with the HV oil pump or the pickup tube. I never got to find out because the engine developed so much wheelhop that the transmission backed off the engine, broke an ear off the TH700R4's bellhousing, tore the transmission up, and bent an axle. That engine is going in my 92 though as soon as I get a new oil pan next weekend.

Everyone always says you can do this or that with a 350 for the same amount or less and get more. If you're happy with what you get out of your 305 though it doesn't really matter. Knowing a 305 can run 10s is more than enough for me. Big deal if a 350 or 383 can do more.


*edit* Reliability level is a daily driver and legal. I aim for nothing to break but something always will. Not a big deal for me since I can fix anything that doesn't require any machine work myself. Because of that I tend to push the envelope with my choices. I also build for more punishment than I will deal out (which is considerable). if you build for more, you tend to stay alive longer.

 

Now thats a post. Thanks for all the info. I plan to run World Products heads too, 1.6RR, full 3" exhaust header back shorties maybe long tubes still undecided, full msd ignition I just need msd box and starter, 14x3 k&n, UD Pulleys, new GM type II power steering kit, 190lph walbro fuel pump, moroso racing stock size oil pan with hv pump and matching pickup, edelbrock water pump, edelbrock TBI manifold, Holley 670 tbi with ultimate mods and matching manifold bores, stroker kit, undecided cam, all forged internals, and tuning tuning TUNING!

Not to mention all the suspension parts. I would like 300hp or 300tq or 12.999's is what I want out of this 305.

 

If you can get over the " I wanna be fast with a 305" mentality you will be much better off. There is NO reason to keep the 305 if fuel mileage isn't your primary concern. You can buy a 350 block and rebuild it for LESS than the cost of pulling your 305 that you already own and building it back to stock. Factor in a stroker kit and the 383 looks even cheaper compared to a 335.

I think it's a much better idea to learn how to tune on your LO3 while you build your 350 or 383 then swap that motor in once you have a handle on tuning. This way your car will never be down for more than a weekend or two.

Seriously guys if you want to make power you can do much more cheaply with a 350 block.

 

Why the power steering pump change? I would skip the Edelbrock TBI intake manifold. Almost everyone agrees that it sucks and you're far better off going eith a carb intake manifold and an adapter plate. I'm not sure on the TB. Everytime I go to look at upgrading the TB and the ECM I think about just saving to get a Stealth Ram set up.

 

Well, like I said. I already have the 305. I dont have any money to put towards a motor to have it sit until I build it up. Thats why I was going to build the outside of my 305 up..exhaust, ignition, cooling, oiling. Then switch to a 350. ANY HELP ON FINDING ONE WOULD BE NICE?

 

I say build the 305 stroker. It's something different to do and YES everyone knows a 350 will be cheaper to build and will have alot more HP. But it's also nice to know that the 305 that came in the car is still there and it's now producing 300hp. Because in most cases when you run across a 3rd gen that came with a 305 for sell it has been ripped out and a 350 in it's place. Build it and let the haters ...Hate

 

Its what I want to do but then I doubt things like the Holley 670 and which manifold to use with which adapter. Should I get forged or not. Knowing it wont ever be blown or NOS injected. That and money is so tight not even a vigin could match it. Lol. Next winter I hope to gain much help from you guys on this forum. Thanks for the reconsideration on my 305.

P.S. That and I also wanted to keep it because how many LO3 are out there.

 

I like my eddy intake.If you get it bored out to 50mm it works really well.I also say if your heart is set on the 335ci engine go for it.Yes a 350 is cheaper but if the car is only going to be a street only car most of your time will at part throttle anyway.Also 300HP is perfect for the street.Do what YOU want to do, it's YOUR car.

 

Umm.......ok kinda missed the part about just doing bolt-ons on the 305. With the thread title like "storker 305" one kinda assumes that you are talkinga bout pulling the motor.


Edit: Just wanted to add that I've never paid more than 50$ for a bare 350 block or 150$ for a complete rebuildable long block.

 

I say build up the 305 as much as you can with your current parts, or the cheapest replacement parts you can find.


The rest of the money, save it, save it and save it, and one day go for one of the LSx series engines.

 

Yeah...but I dont have any tools to build a motor from bottom up, nor the skills or knowledge of what to look for....thats the big thing or else I would talk to a guy I know who has a 400ci and a 350ci motor. Both need new main bearings, then rebuilt the rest of the way. Depending on how much he wants for them Ill let you guys know. Might be able to get a 350 quicker than I thought, just figured they would be a pretty penny or somewhat close.

Also whats the company that builds badass transmissions? As I would need one when I get it. Im looking for a T-5 maybe with the Super T-5 Buildup?

 

Automatic transmission or manual one ?

Auto hmmm TCI and Hughes, although I believe there's a few more out there.

You don't really need THAT many tools to rebuild an engine, yes I didn't change the piston rings nor bearings on this engine I put in the car, but did everything else. Alot of the rebuild will involve cleanup, since you'll have so much carbon buildup etc etc in your heads.

 

I just keep getting more and more confused, you start by asking about a stroker kit, but then you say you don't have enough money, knowledge or tools to do so. Then you rattle off a parts list that will cost about 4 times as much as the stroker in either 305 or 350 form. Then move on to talk about a 1700$ transmission.


I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but you need to slow down a bit and develope a good plan to mod your LO3. We've all been a poor newbie at one time or another, and I've seem more guys than I can count just dive into moding their cars blindly spending hard earned money where it doesn't matter.

Lets lay out a plan for modding your car. First we need to lay out a budget, that will govern how far you can go with each step.

I propose for your first step:

Stage 1: $500

Rear gears, posi= 150$ junk yard rear end
Open element= 35$
Cat back= $~250
tune up= 75$

 

No, if you aren't going to boost it, spray it, or run N/A (naturally aspirated) with compression through the roof (13.0+) and a high advance on your timing, then you don't need forged parts.

To add to that budget BMonteSS worked out, $40.00 had my cam custom ground to Crane specs. I just told the engine shop to leave the cam out when they built my shortblock. That was a flat tappet hydraulic cam though. I didn't put a roller motor back into the car. (Before anyone asks why, the rollers were far to expensive to replace at the time and the rebuild only cost me $200 with the core exchange.)

He was right though. If you don't have the tools or the knowledge to bild a 350 or a 400, then stroking your 305 is well out of your price range. Parts ALWAYS look cheap untill you start looking at if you can do it yourself or if you have to pay someone to do it. The cost can skyrocket in a heartbeat.

If you go with a used rear end you need to be bale to inspect it. The dinner plates they stick in there take a beating. Using a freaking rearend desinged for a S-10 was just stupid. Costs aside 7.5" is far to small for a third gen much less a 4th gen.

 

If you're going to do anything to the engine, I would go ahead and spend the 200 dollars or so on rebuilding the engine (100-150 on rebuild kit, i.e. gasket set plus bearing and rings, plus an additional 50 bucks for the honing tool).

When I took the heads of the engine, the valves had close to 1/2 inch of carbon build up on them plus the valve seals were toast.

 

I'm sorry Vogarth, but I just don't agree with that recomendation at all. I've never seen a re-ring job last for more than a couple thousand miles before it started smoking again or just plain blew up because new parts were put in with old components.

If you are going to do a rebuild you are going to need the block bored (all chevy's with 100k need bored) crank reground, and the cylinder heads worked over by a pro (guides, valve job, resurface)

 

Okay....OFFICIAL PLANS FOR NEXT WINTER SO EVERYONE KNOWS WHATS GOING ON.

Plans:

305:

Forged Stroker Kit (For L8er Purposes).
World Products Heads.
Edelbrock TBI Manifold.
Holley 670 TBI Unit.
K&N 14x3 Open Element w/ .5" raised base (Getting 2.5" Cowl).
Hooker Headers Shorties.
Custom 2.5" y-pipe.
2.5" High Flow Cat (undecided on brand)(no AIR tube).
Flowmaster American Thunder (Kit that tapers down to 2.5" at the cat).
Walbro 190 Fuel Pump w/ filter.
AFPR (Undecided).
Griffin Radiator.
Flex-A-Lite Tranny Cooler, Fuel Cooler.
MSD Ignition (Coil, Dizzy, Wires, Starter, Alternator 140amp (expensive but who cares).
AC Delco Iridium Plugs.
AC Delete Smog Delete.
Gatorback Serpentine.
March UD Pulleys with custom Power steering and smog and delete pullies Billet.

Drivetrain:

Built 10 bolt with 4.10's/4.11's
Carbon Fiber Driveshaft
Built 700R with Corvette Servo full TransGo shift kit installed with Edge 9.5" 2600 Stall Converter and Edge Racing Flexplate
Hurst Ratchet Shifter
Deep Pan Extra 1 quart
Disc Brake Comversion with full Steel Braided lines and Speed Bleeders
Summit Diff Cover

(Getting off work will finish l8er)

 

You don't need forged, and stroking a 305 is still a waste of money.

Power comes from the heads, so that is an area that money is well spent. You haven't said anything about a cam, though.

You might be happer with something bigger than 3"

I don't know that you're going to need a larger fuel pump.

If your stock radiator is in good shape, you don't need to replace it.

The transmission cooler is a good idea, the fuel cooler won't do anything.

An aftermarket ignition won't offer any performance increase over stock. MSD doesn't make a distributor that will work with your ECM.

No gain to be had for the cost of exotic plugs.

Opinions are mixed on underdrive pulleys. I'm not a fan, personally.

Gross waste of money. A stock steel or aluminum shaft is fine.

 

First I like the 305 because EVERYONE HATES THEM.

Second, when it comes to cams I am not a newb but dont know much. Would someone help me choose a nice cam for my setup?

Third....BIGGER THAN 3"? Dont you mean at least 3"?

Fourth the fuel pump would be after the heads and cam chosen. Most likely.

Fifth, the radiator I wanted because these motors run hot and I live in some wacky hot weather....mainly humidity..so 80-90* and 40-60% humidity isnt good for these cars. I think.

Sixth, the fuel cooler was a mistake...OOPS. I want the tranny cooler to run in the radiator then out and into the cooler then finally back to the trans.

Seventh, here is my DIZZY http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

Eighth, I dont want gains from plugs just reliability....Not everything I want is for power most is for reliability. Thanks.

Ninth, UD Pulleys might just be switched to custom made Aluminum stock sized pulleys. Less mass but stock sizing. I know a guy to make these easily. Will let you know.

Tenth, CF Driveshaft....I dont care for Aluminum or Steel. Cant change my mind on this. I want it....its good for up to 900+HP and 1.3 60' so I think Im good on aluminum (which is weak compared to CF) and steel because thats too heavy. Of course I will get Spohns Double Safety Loops.

FINISH: I want my car to run reliably.

If I have to say it so I can get help I will.....IM A NEWBIE.

If I hear this and that then someone else says something different I wonder whats right...then I ask and switch things and get yelled at because I thought the other guy was right and guess he isnt and now this guy is "RIGHT"??? IDK Just help me and everything will be awesome.

 

With cars, just like everything else in life, there isn't a guarantee on who is right and who is wrong. Sometimes both people are right and/or wrong. Some things are fact and some are just oppinions. Then there are some that are both. With that being said . . .

I would stay away from the underdrive pulleys. I've never understood the fascination with them.

I wouldn' be concerned with plugs lasting longer than they usually would. Yea they can be a real PITA to change but if you're racing and getting on it frequently you should be keeping an eye on them and other things as well.

The radiator is a toss up. I had a "stock" one in my 1988 Camaro with the LO3. The original broke so I opted for a TPI version which had more cores. I live in Texas so I know all about hot summers and humidity. When the damn thermostat wouldn't screw up it never got above 180 deg in the summer. You need to make sure that black plastic air dam is under your radiator support and that it's in good shape. Get your fan to stay on all the time and you will be fine. An aluminum one is cool if you're trying to save some weight, increase the capacity of the cooling system, want a bit of a reduction in the water temperature, and you have the cash to blow on it. It would be one of the last mods I would pick though from a best bang for the buck perspective.

Calling up a cam company like Crane or Comp is your best bet to picking a cam for whatever exact setup you have with some room to grow in the future. That's what they're in business for. A sure fire cam though is one from a LT1. It will slide right into the block. I would use a LT4 H.O.T. cam myself but, I don't think the factory heads can handle the lift it has.

Lastly, questions, questions, questions, research, research, research. There has been countless trial and error in the performance industry in general over the years. There has been even more here though when it comes to TBI. Just remember you're aiming for next winter. Anything and everything can happen by that point. Stay on top of developments and people trying out new combinations. Just keep an open mind to adapt . . .

 

That's fine, as long as you realize you could be spending less money to get more from a better engine.


Yes, that should have have been "bigger, like 3 inch".

They run hot mostly because of the stock fan control. The stock rad is capable of keeping it cool. Humidity doesn't affect the cooling of the car, it only affects evaporative cooling.

I must have been thinking about something else.

An expensive plug isn't any more "reliable" than a cheap one. Plugs don't really "fail".

Less mass is nice, but it wouldn't make enough difference to be worth the trouble.

That's fine to just want it, but have you looked at how much they cost?

 

Thanks...and will do. Good talking to.

 

An expensive plug isn't any more "reliable" than a cheap one. Plugs don't really "fail".

-Understood

Less mass is nice, but it wouldn't make enough difference to be worth the trouble.

-Still would like matching pulleys ya know.

That's fine to just want it, but have you looked at how much they cost?

I think I am buying from http://www.pstds.com/custom_driveshafts.htm

I am getting the Aluminum one with new yokes. Thanks for the help. Didnt really understand I guess....how cheap Driveshafts are. Aluminum anyway.

Carbon Fiber-$500-950

The finest driveshaft available anywhere. Each driveshaft is specifically designed by our Engineering Department to optimize the characteristics of Carbon Fiber required in your special application. Passed SFI test at 2800 Ft/lbs torque. Prices range from $500.00 to $950.00.

Chromoly-$350+

For high horesepower applications 1200+. Seamless 4130 tubing with chromoly heavy duty 1350 yokes and cryo treated solid u-joints. Welded within .0010 total runout and electronically balanced to insure smooth operation. Price: $339.00. Passed SFI test at 2800 Ft/lbs torque. A complete line of forged transmission slip yokes is also available.

Aluminum-$400

6061-T6 Dom tubing gives the most concentric Aluminum Driveshaft available. High strength aluminum tube yokes are Mig welded with less than 10 thousands total run out. The aluminum driveshaft is balanced to less than 1/4 oz/in to assure vibration free operation. Highly polished aluminum driveshafts can be ready for shipment in 48 hours in most cases. Pricing for 1310 includes most trans slip yokes - $250. 1330-1350 including trans slip yoke $399.

Mild Steel-$150-200

Mild Steel automotive driveshafts can be built to fit any application. Seamless Dom Tubing is the basis to producing finely balanced driveshafts. A small amount of information allows us to ship you a quality product with high gloss black or white finish. Pricing ranges from $149.00 to $199.00 depending on joint series, tubing diameter and length plus transmission slip yoke (priced seperately).

 

Nothing wrong with making things look pretty.

Why not a stock aluminum one? Take it to your local driveline shop to have the balance checked, and you could still polish it if you wanted. It would still be more than strong enough for anything that a 305 could dish out.

 

Even though a used one probably most likely will handle everything I throw at it...new just sits well with me because if something actually does happen when I buy used then its my fault because I bought used and should have known about possibilities of problems. But thanks for the heads up.

P.S. Sorry if we got off on thw rong foot. Just trying to learn alot in a little bit of time. I always push things too so that doesnt help.