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So I went to the junkyard, and got myself a stock distributor clamp. I put it on, clamp it down as far as I can. But I see the distributor still sticking out quite a bit. I think that's what has been causing the problem all along.

What I don't understand is .. how could this happen ?

This is my buddy's old engine, distributor is from my old engine. However both 91 Camaro RS ... both LO3 engines

 

vorgath

There are couple possibilities.

1) The oil pump shaft is NOT engaged into the distributor drive gear. Use a very long blade screwdriver and flashlight to get the two aligned.

2) Heads were milled and manifold now sits lower than before (least likely)

///RF

 

I'd agree with #1 above being the most likely.

Sounds like the distributor is not engaging the oil pump. I prefer the method the person above mentioned but many people get away with leaving the distributor loose and cranking the engine over and usually the distributor will drop the rest of the way when everything lines up as the engine turns over.

DO NOT RUN ENGINE WITH THE DISTRIBUTOR NOT SEATED!!!! And NEVER force it to seat. When everything is right it will FALL into its seated position.

 

oh ... damn ... ok


yeah that does sound right ... kewl

 

take the dist back out, and turn the shaft in small increments, then drop it back in, it will go all the way down... then will sit flat. I had that problem too..

 

The other lazy way to do it is to turn the motor over by hand (or with teh starter, taking precautions to make sure the motor doesnt actually start) until the dist. lines up with the pump shaft, at which point itll drop right down into place.

 

Damn it, I tried to turn the engine by hand, and the dizzy still won't drop down. I'm about to just have the car towed to a shop and have them fix whatever's wrong.

It SHOULD drop all way down right, if you just rotate the crank by hand, right ?

 

Before you have it towed or bring it to a shop , try it one more time. Do u have it marked anywhere where #1 is when u took it out? If u have all that set, you sometime gotta play with the distributor and turn it a few times (while its out of the motor) to get it to line up properly and drop in. I know everytime i took my dizzy out and went to drop it back in and line it up, i had to play with it for a while before it dropped in all the way and it lined up correctly.

 

Within one or two full revolutions it should. Might also try the long screwdriver approach. Forcing the dist. down with the clamp may have somehow engaged it with the oil pump shaft, which could be turing along with it when you turn the motor over. Usually when its lightly placed in, but not engaged, the oil pump shaft will remain stationary.

Also, it probably would be a good idea to inspect everything from above to make sure its all ok when you pull the dist.

 

The engine will not start as long as the plug wires or distrib wires are plugged in.. I have heard only 1 time before about a distrib that didn't want to drop down. They did have the heads milled down.. Put your rotor in where you want it. I don't do a conventional placement. I point my rotor towards CYL No# 1 when the No#1 cyl is on TDC. Then have someone bump the distrib until it drops down. Then go from there to do the rest of the timing. Make sure your distrib gear is not all mucked up.. That also is a likely problem.

 

Dude - do not give up

1) Get a long blade screwdriver from Sears or HD.
2) Position #1 cylinder at TDC. Both valves on #1 cylinder are closed and #6 cylinder are rocking. The timing mark on harmonic balancer should be very close to 0 degrees.
3) Align the oil pump shaft into a correct position - Look into the dizzy hole and the oil pump slot should line up with #5 cylinder intake push-rod.
4) Using felt tip marker and straight edge mark #1 cylinder location on the dizzy
5) Remove dizzy cap, leave rotor in place. Align rotor contact tip against felt tip marker mark.
6) For a full size HEI measure ~2-0 to 2-1/4" on a peace of masking tape (two pencil marks), for compact HEI (external coil) measure ~ 1-5/8 to 1-3/4". Attach marked tape to a side of dizzy in the CCW direction from #1 cylinder post position. Mark second position with a felt tip marker. Second position where rotor should be before it engages camshaft. It drops in for me every time.

//RF

 

I know this may sound real dumb but .. how the heck do you even look down in the dizzy hole, there's not that much space underneath the hood.

You line up with no.5 intake pushrod hmmm

 

It is difficult to peer down the opening. Maybe a mirror and flashlight. . .

To drop the distributor I hit the starter. Just a quick hit is all it usually takes.

RBob.

 

Amen to that.. The Distrib will fall down into the oil slot once you bump the ignition.. The timeing won't change... Takes way to much time to align and realign and then align again... Just bump the starter

 

Hmmmm.. ..

I have to disagree, but bumping a starter will change timing since it will rotate engine away from TDC.

Make sure that #1 Cylinder is still at TDC.

You do not need to look through dizzy hole to locate oil pump shaft. Get a long screwdriver (or oil prelube tool) 12 to 16" in length, mark blade edges on the handle. Stick into the dizzy hole (hmmm sounds like - never mind) and turn until blade drops into the oil pump slot. Now, turn screwdriver handle turn until you get aligned per attached figure. This way location of the #1 cylinder on the distributor cap is pre-set.

I did not realize that there is so little room - I guess working with engine on the engine stand makes it too easy to forget the back pain of trying to squeeze in..

//RF

 

That method works also but it too time consuming. Since the timing is based off the cam gear. When the Distrib is slid down onto the worm gear of the cam gear, the Dizzy and Cam will still be in time.. Yes it will change the rotor position and it will not be at TDC when you bump the engine. But, that is now irrelevant of where the rotor sits.. The cam and dizzy are still in time and when you rotate the engine the dizzy will lock onto the oil pump shaft then it will slide down. As long as you know where your rotor was pointing at the initial point on the dizzy at TDC when you slid it down into the intake manifold hole. Then start with your plug wires firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 standard cam or 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 with the cam like I have. Then all you have to do is run the timing light. Much, much easier to do.

 

'tech

I guess I am too old school!!! I like my number #1 cylinder dizzy post being in the same place on all my engines!

My main concern if there is a gross misalignment between oil pump shaft slot and dizzy worm gear - say 90 degree. Rotating cam shaft will pull dizzy worm gear down and jam it against oil pump shaft without engaging into the oil pump shaft end slot. By the time dizzy worm gear comes in contact with oil pump shaft it is fully engaged with cam gear - very little vertical play what so ever. Some pre-alignment is necessary to avoid jamming.

//RF

 

It's all good if you come up with the same solution... "Engine Running" It's nice to hear the correct way and a quick way... Gives everyone a choice..

 

I guess I'm slightly confused though ... I tried doingthat today... do I turn the screwdriver, or do I kinda push it down and to the right or what ? How much force is needed to turn anyway ?

 

Absolutely no force is needed or should be used to push it down. If the Oil pump shaft isn't aligned up properly with the bottom of the Dizzy Slot and you use excessive force you will cause damage to your components.. You have tried the proper way of aligning the oil pump shaft to the dizzy.. Now, Try to bump the starter and see if the dizzy will drop into position. If this still doesn't drop, I would be looking for other problems.

 

i'm not sure i did it the right way though with the screwdriver

now.... hmmmmdoes it matter which piston is at TDC if i use the bump the starter drop the dizzy method ?

so i just leave the dizzy in... but unclamped .. and bump the starter ?

 

Once the engine was placed at TDC on NO#1 on compression stroke... And you place your Rotor in the position for where you want your No#1 plug wire at.. Once you drop in the dizzy into the hole.. Your Dizzy and Cam will mesh the gears togethor. Your timing will still be correct.. It is your Distrib and Cam that set where your timing is at, and which doesn't matter where you bump the starter.. It all bases on the usual timing.. NO# 1 on Compression is always your starting point. Double check your Harmonic Balancer line to see if it is on 0 Degrees.. Nothing worst than placing Dizzy in with engine 180 degrees out.. Engine won't run worth a hoot. (Likes to Backfire Alot!!!! that way)

90% of the problem with dropping in the Dizzy is the oil pump shaft not being aligned to the Dizzy..

So, Simply... Your timing will be correct..

 

I tried the screwdriver thing, didn't work.

I tried bumping the engine, sure the dizzy will drop down, but not enough, it still has that tiny gap.

MAYBE the head of the screwdriver is too wide for me to use it properly ?


How could this have happened anyway, anything to do with installing the oil pump ? Did I missalign anything, did I overtighten something what ?


IDEAS ???? Kinda broke right now ... so getting it towed to a shop well hmm not sure I could afford to even have it towed right now

 

About how much gap are we talking about?

Did you put the gasket between the distrib and the Intake Manifold?

You distrib lock on your intake manifold... Ensure it is not in the way.

Have you checked the bottom of your Distrib to ensure that your gear is all the way on the shaft and being held on properly?

Can you take a pic and post it?

 

Maybe half an inch..... i thought it was ok.. but when starting the engine, putting my hand down on the dizzy.. it jumped up and down a little bit.

 

I do not think that dizzy is engaged into oil pump shaft.... There is no other reason. Sorry dude we tried....

 

You stated that you started the car.. Was it actually running? If it was, did you have oil pressure. If you don't, then immediately shut down your car as you aren't locked into the oil pump extension shaft which goes to the oil pump which means your car isn't getting any oil. If you do have oil pressure, Then HMMMM!!!!!!!!!!..

Next problem.. Did someone at one time angle mill your intake or heads.. If it was angle milled too much, that is a problem that I am going through right now. My Intake was angle milled for 58cc heads. And I am running 74cc heads.. Have to angle mill the intake and or use adapters so I stop getting water in the oil.

1/2 inch is quite a bit of space.. You distrib shouldn't jump up and down either though. Did you replace the cam? If you did, how does the gear end of the cam look? And how does the gears on your distrib look?

 

Maybe not 1/2 inch maybe 1/4 inch.

Was anything angle milled ? hmmm I seriously doubt it, since my buddy pulled the engine and dropped in a 350 instead, so I doubt he did anything to the LO3. By looking at the condition of the intake and the heads (severe carbon build up etc) all looked original.

Car was running, but extremely bad, oil pressure, hmmmm honestly not sure if I had any or not.