Alright, I made a thread about a month ago about some problems I was having with my RS. I've replaced some of the older parts; The distributor and cap, spark plugs and wires, air filter, changed the oil 3 times (Hadn't been changed in over 4 years), and cleaned out the TBI.

I still have one major problem, though. It seems that my transmission or engine can't decide what to do at some point when the temperature reaches a certain point.

Example: I turn car on, let it warm for a minute, and drive it. After a while of driving, and the car warms up, it tries to engage into overdrive. (Automatic transmission, sorry I didn't state that earlier). Anyways, it stalls the engine when I go to stop, and I'm stuck starting it and it dieing for about 5 minutes.

But, if I let the car warm up before I drive, to the point where the idle goes down low, and the temp is above 120 degrees, it shifts super-early. I don't know what it is, or what the problem is for sure, but I always have to wait for it to warm up fully before I drive it if I don't want any problems.

Also, it takes about 15-20 seconds for the car to start up when it's left to sit over night. Any ideas on why that is?

 

you are one year off.
in 1990 gm fixed a major problem with that trans. it would row itself where ever you went. some limited the problem by not using od unless on the fwy, which works pretty good. it just loves to **** into od.
try not putting it in od and just drive it and i bet it will work better.
now you did not say much about the trans oil but if the engine oil was not changed for 4 years you can imagine what the trans looks like.
the easy way is take you car to one of those jiffy lube or even pepboys and have them do it. about 150.00 and they suck the oil out - pump in some cleaner - then suck that out and put in new aft.
or you can have them install a new trans filter, which means that they have to drop the pan, will let it drain, will not use the cleaner - no big deal, put in the filter, and new atf. i used that time to have them install a new alunimum trans oil pan with a drain plug. careful, dont forget to buy a drain plug with a magnet in it. if you go this route there is another mod - pm if you do this one with the new pan and i will walk you through it.
anyway - that will cost you about 100.00. and there is not much they can hurt doing that - and you get to stay clean.
and they will tell you if they see anything wrong. DONT LET THEM FIX IT EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO TOW IT OUT OF THERE. that can be done at a correct place.

good luck.

 

Okie, I've tried driving it in D instead of OD, but it does the same exact thing. I forgot to mention that earlier -My bad.

I did change the trans filter and fluid when I changed the oil, so I don't know how that may affect the answer now. Once again, my fault that I didn't mention that also.

The only thing that I can think of is the 4th gear/Overdrive issue. When it isn't warmed up, it shifts along the lines of this:

1st to 2nd: 12mph
2nd to 3rd: 25mph
3rd to 4th: 36/37mph
4th to Overdrive: Around the 40mph mark, but it kills the engine when it tries to shift. Also kills it as I slow down, and it changes gears.

However, when warmed up, it shifts perfectly, such as this:

1st to 2nd: 10mph
2nd to 3rd: 25mph
3rd to 4th: 30mph
4th to Overdrive: 35mph.

Now, any idea on what the problem may be? I've checked my TV cable; It's fine. It also shifts kinda late when slowing down; I can feel the engine struggle as I'm slowing down (Like it's using the engine to help slow it). It also feels odd when I let my foot off the pedal, as the transmission can't decide what gear to stay in.

Ah, also, I have to give it a little throttle when I come to a stop, or it'll kill the engine. I can't let it sit idle at a light in OD or D, because it wants to die because of the way the idle is set (I've tried to set it higher, but I don't see how).

The only things I can think of are the mass airflow sensor, or something along those lines. Any ideas?

 

"Ah, also, I have to give it a little throttle when I come to a stop, or it'll kill the engine. I can't let it sit idle at a light in OD or D, because it wants to die because of the way the idle is set (I've tried to set it higher, but I don't see how)."

Idle speed is set through the chip in the computer which controls the IAC. But there is also a physical stop for the throttle. On the front driver side of the throttle body there is a little plug that blocks access to to what resembles an idle speed set screw on a carb.

Maybe your IAC isn't working right?

 

Yeah, I've looked at the physical stop on the throttle, and I can't adjust that (Unless I put something in front of it, which might post a problem).

I also wondered about the IAC, and have yet to getting around to look at it.

 

I'm not saying this is your solution, but typically the TBI unit can be modified to allow adjustment of that "idle speed screw".

If you look at the tbi unit from the front with your chin close to the radiator you will see a round plug about the diameter of your pinky finger facing the front of the car, located toward the right side of the TBI. You will notice it lines up with that screw that is the throttle stop. Behind the cap is the head of the screw which can be adjusted with a torx screwdriver. I drilled out that little cap on mine.

This is all just FYI, because I don't think that manually cranking this screw is the real solution to your problem.

 

it almost sounds like his converter is locking up and bogging it out

 

Can't say this is your answer but I have the exact same camaro as you and had a similar stall probl about 3 years ago... After about 300 or more in parts and hours of labor and searching on the issue my problem was my computer I swapped it out and haven't had a problem since.

 

You might try a new ECM (new AS IN USED - another one). The ECM solely controls the lockup function of the torque converter, and it does sound like the TC is locking up, but then not unlocking. I switched to a carb motor, and installed a manual switch for my TC - and my car does the same kinda thing if I'm coming to a stop and I forget to unlock the TC by turning my switch off.

 

Can you throw it in nuetral when stopping just a temporary solution

 

Okay, I'll see about maybe replacing the ECM then.

I have also tried throwing it into neutral when coming to a stop, but when it's in the "I'm killing myself as you stop" mode, it still dies. I'm then stuck starting it, it dieing, and starting it again over and over until it finally "realizes" something.

To top this off right now, one of my wires or plugs is acting up, and I'm only hitting on 7 cylinders. This has just been one bad week for me so far.

 

i have an ECM fro an 88 L03 camaro with auto transmission, never had a single issue with it if your interested, im only 40 min from hammond

 

I'll actually have to pass on that for now, as I want the Camaro to be fully functional before I mess with it any more.

For now, it's driving the Firebird around...

Also related to the TBI engine, I need to know how hard it would be to replace the piston rings. She's...eating oil at points. I see blue smoke when rev'd.

 

might be valve stem seals

 

Yea man def try an ECM, like I said you have the exact problem I had and it fixed mine, make sure you try a known good ECM you can get one cheap at a junkyard so if it doesn't help you didn't waste alot of money

 

Changing piston rings is a big deal. Do-able but a big deal. If you've never done it before, have a buddy around that has.

Of course you will have to pull the engine. This will degenerate into a bigtime "might-as-well" situation.

To do the rings, you'd pull the motor, pull the heads & intake, drop the pan, unbolt the rods from the crank & pull the pistons out the top of the block. A complete new gasket set would be mandatory, but...

...might as well put in new bearings
...might as well put in a new timing set
...might as well put in a new cam
...might as well get a valve job
...might as well overbore and new pistons
...it goes on and on

my projects always end up killing me with the might-as-well stuff.

 

Alright, I'm down to a few issues with the Camaro now.

My biggest problem is that the car takes at least 15 seconds to start if sitting overnight. I crank it for about 7 seconds, stop, and then crank again until it starts.

I've tried holding down the accelerator, or pedaling it over and over while it's trying to start, but it makes no difference. And oddball thing that might have something to do with it, though, is that the previous owner installed a new fuel pump, and now it runs forever with the ignition on. I've also tried to just leave the car on the "ON" position before I start it, and let the fuel pump run for about 5-10 minutes, but that doesn't make any difference either.

Any ideas? Could it be my fuel filter? The fuel pump?

The TBI unit is clean, and the car has no issues running once it's running. It'll start right off after I have it running for awhile, too, after I shut it off.

 

I did some research, and that seems to be the problem with my blue smoke when revved. Something about the stem seals notoriously going out...?

 

well holding the accelerator down to WOT is going to put it in flood mode, which will turn off the injectors while it cranks to clear the intake and cylinders, when i had my TBI it alwasy cranked longer than my PFI car, even when it was in perfect tune, blipping the throttle a few times while cranking always sped the process up.

 

When my car was hard to start i held it at 1/4 throttle, but i did a full tune up with fuel filter and a new coil and no mine starts within 3 seconds

 

Alright, I'll look into buying a new fuel filter, and doing a little more work on the engine.

I'd ask if there's anything special about changing the fuel filter, but I'll head to the board about fuel lines and whatnot.

 

i had an 84 with the same problem,decided to put in a shift kit and found one of the springs inside had snapped in half. The kit was fairly easy to install so i replaced with the street kit wich replaced those springs with a rod and it fixed my problem. Im not sure why it only happened when cold but it always felt i little off but 90% better after warm up.

 

NothIng special at all about it, except if its old and not flowing properly your car will struggle to either start or stay running, but i dont know if thats what yoi meant

 

Okay...after driving around a bit, seeing that my car was doing fine, I thought everything was okay.

Turns out it's not. My only option left is to change the ECM and hope that it works. The Camaro won't shift into overdrive any more, and when it does try to, it kills the engine. Flipping it into neutral doesn't help. Putting it in regular drive doesn't help, as it still tries to shift early into 4th, and it kills the engine then, too.

Sort of off topic...but how do you change an ECM?

 

Do a search for TC Lockup - there's a way to lock the TC up through the diagnostic port, by jumping two of the diag port pins. There may be something you can do with this ability to help diagnose your TC issue. Or maybe not, but it was a thought of something to try before hunting down an ECM.

 

Well...I'm not so sure that it's the TC. I'm just getting fed-up with the problems this car keeps giving me.

-It keeps mis-firing; I've checked all the wires, all the plugs, and the coil is fine. Yet, when it idles, it mis-fires once or twice every second. It mis-fires a ton when it starts up.

-It has the previously mentioned random dying. I drive it around, and once it hits a certain temperature, it tries to shift into overdrive, except when it tries, it kills itself. I was able to solve this problem if I'd let it warm up for about 10 minutes, and it would hit around 120-130 degrees, but then it would shift extremely early into gears, but wouldn't die. Now, even if I let it warm up for as long as I want, it will kill itself if it tries to shift into overdrive. After it dies, I start it back up, but it will die again, and again, and again, and then it's fine, but when it tries to shift back into overdrive...well, the dance starts again. I'm just sick of not being able to drive it very far any more.
Oh, did I forget to mention that if I let it warm up now, it will die sometimes? When it idles, it dies at point. I have to have my foot on the accelerator when I come to stops, so it doesn't kill itself. It doesn't =feel= like the transmission is having any problems, but I don't know...

It just has issues. I'm just tired of it. I love this car to death, but I've almost had enough of it.

 

We've all been there - take a break from it and don't get discouraged. I made 4 trips to the hardware store today just to get 4 little bolts to hold my water pump pulley on - spent more time driving back & forth to the store than I spent working on the car!

If things seem to be temp related, then back up and start there. Have you tried a new ignition module? It's in the distributor under the rotor button - they get hot and cause problems. You said you checked coil - but I'm unsure how to check it when it gets hot - they can cause issues when they get hot. Still computer controlled? Maybe try replacing the engine temp sensor for the ECM (not the one for the guage) - maybe the ECM is getting a bad temp reading and over/under compensating somewhere. I'm sure there's more that's affected by heat - maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in. Maybe start a new thread for just the one issue at a time - like post in electronics or general tech about the misfire - since it happens whether engine warm or cold, and get that solved, then we'll move on to next issue.

On the misfire - you said you checked wires - did you check continuity on each wire? I've often bought brand new plug wires with shorts in them right out of the box - never assume a brand new part = a good part.

Again - good luck, take a deep breath, and start at the top again, one problem at a time - we'll get there - there's no better knowledge base than TGO!

 

Alright, I'll take it one thing at a time. Out of curiosity, where is the engine temp sensor located? I've seen a sensor on the block that looks like it would take a reading of the temperature, but I'm unsure. Sorry to seem noobish; I'm still learning some of the ins and outs of the car.

As for the wires, I'll give them a test tomorrow. I forgot to include that it doesn't misfire when in gear, though. Doesn't matter how low it idles in gear; It doesn't miss a beat.

I'll also look into the ignition module.

 

One thing at a time dude. like the guys said take it easy.

Look at it this way big learning curve and getting more understanding of the engine and tranny too.

I had some weird problem with a mustang auto god it ran like ***** and shifted too early. christ be going up a hill and the sucker was in top gear and the car would slow down. even playing with the shifter did squat. i got pissed and messed around with the tv cable adjustment until the sucker would down shift at half throttle only way I could keep that peice of crap going.

Also maybe your cat is plugged too

 

temp sensor is in the intake manifold near the water outlet, thats why i'd never buy a rustang, or ANYTHING my by F.ound O.n R.oadside D.ead

 

Ecm is under dash on the pass side held in by 1 screw, unhook the battery take the screw out drop the ecm, unplug the connectors, open the small plate on the ecm, take your chip out, do not touch the pins, put the chip in the new ecm plug everything back up hook back up the battery, and drive around if its acting better, take it on a road you can cruise at 45, that speed resets your sensors and allows the ecm to "learn your car",

im telling you its the same problem i had i threw 400+ dollars at and a 70 dollar ecm fixed my problem

 

Alright, I'm going to give the new ECM a try. If that doesn't work, I'll check on my torque converter...that seems to be an issue at points, too.

 

Hope it works for you like it did me, if not it never hurts to have a backup ecm if you ever get into chip burning and whatnot, but the original ecm's in these cars are known to fry easy even if u mess with something electrical one time with the battery hooked up, a reman ecm from cardone fixes the issues and does not fry as easy.

 

Alright, I'm going to start fresh here.

This is what happened last night:

I get in the car, get ready to start it up. Takes around 10 seconds, as usual, and then fires up. I hear 1-2 cylinders misfire for a second or two, then it's a high idle, and has no misses.

Until...

It dies. So, I start it back up again. Once again, tons of misfires for a few seconds, then it pans out, then starts to die...I give it a little burst of throttle, and it springs back to life. Take my foot off, and it's idle is alright, with no misses or anything, until it dies again. I was at that for a few minutes.

I can hold my foot on the accelerator (Not WOT, but just a little higher idle for it), and it won't die MOST of the time. It still wanted to die every now and then. When I'd give it a full burst, though, it would give back. She doesn't sound weak.

Anyways, went to take off. No problems...until I get on the road...accelerate, and then, woe and behold, it starts to bog down around 45mph, when it tries to shift into OD. I switch it to neutral, but it still bogs down, and dies. Start it back up, dies again right away.

Now, as I stated, if I can get it to shift way early, then it won't give me the "start up, die" game when I go to restart it the next day. It only does that if I shut the car off when it's having one of it's fits. If it doesn't, the car starts and stays running.

So, in essence, I've been told that it could be my ECM, TCC, Torque converter, Ignition module, or temperature sensor. Anything else to add to that?

 

not to be biased or anything, but when i worked for the village of broadview we had a 88 buick with a 2.8 liter that did the exact same thing, whenever we stopped it would die EVERY damn time, we put a new ECM in it and it cleared right up. dont forget your Torque converter clutch is ALSO operated by the ECM, considereing that your car is exhibiting trouble even with starting, points out to me that you have an ECM issue.

 

Just wanted to mention, not sure if you have changed the fuel filter yet or not but be aware of the direction of flow. I just bought a 1992 camaro and it had the fuel filter on backwards!

 

Alright, one or two more things to mention.

1. The previous owner ghetto rigged the radiator fan to stay on by splicing a few wires up by the relays. Could this have a bad effect?
2. The fuel pump is always stays running when the key is in the "on" position. I was under the impression that it starts for a few seconds, then stops. The previous owner also changed it, and complained about it doing that after they changed it.

 

nah the fan shouldnt cause an issue, and the fuel pump may be caused to stay on if the oil pressure sensor is stuck in the closed position

 

That would actually cause the fuel pump to run non-stop regardless of ignition on or off. Granted, you meant switch instead of sensor (since there isn't a sensor for oil pressure).

 

yes, switch sorry for the miss wording lol, and yea, now that i think about it, it would cause non stop operation, maybe a stuck fuel pump relay?

 

Well guys, guess what:

SHE LIVES AGAIN!

Many, many thanks to Chevy8588. He sold me an ECM for it.

My idling issue was fixed, it doesn't die when coming to a stop anymore, it doesn't shift weird and kill the engine, and it doesn't do anything that it used to that was bad! Well, except for the misfires every now and then at idle, but I found out that a few wires were touching metal parts.

THANK YOU ALL FOR HELPING ME!

 

No problem, we are all here to help and be helped