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91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:40 PM
  #1  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

Hey guys, so i posted elsewhere and i realized my problem may be different in ways so new thread.

just bought 91 rs tbi, supposedly rebuilt 20k ago,
from the looks i'd say thats about right.
here is something i think is important,
i found a dangling broken sensor and i dont know what it is or where it goes,
i have pics here
http://s1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa424/Kyle4Ivie/
i will gather all the posts i made and slap them into here
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:50 PM
  #2  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

problem: sudden full throttle kills the car, wheezes down to 300 rpm and dies.
also very sloppy idle, surging between 800rpm and 1500 rpm, i have adjusted the throttle to get it down but when it's warm it doesn't want to run below 1200
car runs better in cold air. also idling sends black smoke out the exhaust, smells like gas, and a romp on the pedal causes major black smoke, if you ease on the throttle it responds much better. also i'm pretty sure my timing is off which i will deal with later this week.

i found a vacuum line between the air check valve (2" circle behind left side of throttle body) and the throttle body that is broken and taped with electrical tape. i took off the old tape and put on new tape (don't hate me) problem is not as bad, i'm going to go get a new vacuum line today and replace it.
i am told that this air check valve is a major component for acceleration, is this accurate? this does sound very similar, however i'll admit i'm no pro so please advise if there is a more relevant thread somewhere

also, there is a sticker under the hood for crane cams, how can i tell if this actually has a cam?
also, the previous owners claimed it had been rebuilt 20k ago and that it is now a 350, how can i check this?
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:55 PM
  #3  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

The temp sender is also a suspected culprit of running rich, but wouldn't cause the stalling.[/quote]

so i replaced that vac line, and still 100% the same... i noticed when i get below 1/4 tank it runs like $%!#, so i also noticed that the fan doesn't always automatically kick on so i wired the fan directly to the motor... at least i can cool it down... could this all be caused by this "temp sender" but still doesn't explain my stalling problem, i have yet to disconnect my o2 sensor and play with that... (also havn't messed with other sensors)
i noticed that the sensor (don't know what it is) that the air check valve goes through is not mounted to anything so it may not be grounded, could this have any relevance?
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:57 PM
  #4  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

mine has this problem, it just won't start sometimes unless i well, floor it...
i was on 1/4 tank and it acted empty...

Re: How to replace fuel pressure regulator on 305 tbi car? does that tell the fuel pump how much pressure to give or is there another device that does that? my engine is running overly rich, injector spray seems normal but exhaust smells like the inside of a gas tank lol
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:58 PM
  #5  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

nothing smooth about it very unsteady acceleration
its bad!
sometimes on startup i am forced to slam the gas and it will start

after startup
if you slam the gas it bogs and dies
if you feather it you can get it to rev up.
sounds great beyond 2500rpm but up until that its very bad especially while hot
something is messed up with my fan as it only turns on sometimes so when it gets over 220 it really wants to die
in cold air it runs far better (first morning start)
its very wheezy, backfiring,
sometimes it falls into low rpms like 400 and idles for a second or two then dies

so i don't over heat i have a wire direct to the fan now
black smoke from the exhaust and smells very rich
im totally lost to be honest
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:58 PM
  #6  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

i dont have a code reader right now but im getting one soon. how can i check my tps? as far as timing, i'm sure its off, i'm getting a freind with a timing gun to stop by tomorrow however...
This could be important.
i been looking all over my engine and it looks like it was recently rebuilt, i think there is a good possibility that it has a cam and timing needs to be advanced, there is a sticker in the engine bay for crane cams

heres the thing thats got me, i was looking aroung for my o2 sensor (found it tried disconnecting, its new anyway)
and i was under the starter (which i have problem there too the gears aren't lining up right, the starter just slaps the flywheel till it eventually falls in)
any way i found a dangling broken sensor, i have a pic or two,
i will post


is that a new torque converter?

the broken sensor has a female connector that is identical to the one for what i think is the crankshaft position sensor (its located on the block above oil pan, below spark plugs, anyways i tried removing that sensor, ran the same, tried swapping connectors ran the same
am i on to something here?
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 01:06 PM
  #7  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

k well heres the thing, it has two sensor cables that are identical,
both single wire, female oval connectors that take round sensors. one is still plugged in to a sensor it looks old but it is not the broken one, it has a white male end and its shiny metal, i think this is the knock sensor.
the other one (broken) is blue and i cannot find the rest of the sensor anywhere, i don't know where it belongs or what it is.

the cam...
um it really sounds like it has one but hell that might be because its running so bad
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 01:11 PM
  #8  
kyleivie's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

i disconnected my o2 sensor because i figured it had a bad mixture so i thought it would revert to stock tables if i disconnected it, after disconnecting it still runs the same.
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Old Oct 12, 2010 | 02:52 PM
  #9  
kyleivie's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

ok so i went over to oreilly kragen, i asked for the cts and he suggested a air surge sensor (i think thats what he called it) rather than the cts, i also picked up a fan temp switch, now i just need to know where that goes on the engine so i can replace it
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Old Oct 13, 2010 | 12:40 PM
  #10  
kyleivie's Avatar
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

UPDATE!!!!!
ASE doc has diagnosed and fixed my problem! (for the most part)
the CTS sensor was bad, it is located in the intake manifold near the thermostat.
my car now runs much better, i can slam the gas whenever and it responds smoothly!
Edit
still smokes a little but this could clear up with some driving

Last edited by kyleivie; Oct 13, 2010 at 12:51 PM.
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Old Oct 13, 2010 | 03:52 PM
  #11  
thomas1976's Avatar
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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: West-Central
Car: 91 Trans am
Engine: built 360 TBI
Transmission: built 700r4
Axle/Gears: 10bolt/3.23
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

Would be good to check fuel pressure.

A cam swap usually requires tu tune the chip in the ECM.
Or even better you could upgrade to EBL (http://dynamicefi.com/) wich makes the tuning part easy, effective and fun.
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 12:53 AM
  #12  
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: wallingford,ct
Car: 91 formula ws6
Engine: 355 tpi OBDII
Transmission: 4l60E
Axle/Gears: 2.73 with 4th gen brakes
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

that sensor under the plugs over the oil pan is the knock sensor. should be plugged in.
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Old Oct 27, 2010 | 11:50 AM
  #13  
kyleivie's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

update
car runs much better, i believe the black smoke is now all gone. i am going to try to smog it pretty soon here but i'd like to finish fixing the little problems first.
1. fan is not kicking on.
-it turns on with ac
-the fan temp switch in the block was broken in half when i got the car, replaced switch and plugged it in... no difference
2. super sticky throttle
- i have sprayed tri-flow all over the linkage, after car warms up this isn't so bad.
3. surging idle
-it idles between 700 (sometimes 500) and 1000 steadily down to 7 up to 1k down up down up (steadily) after a min in neutral or park it evens out to 900
-in drive barely holding brake, it will pull... pull.... pull... (seems like the cam but i dont know)
4. after driving for a while (at least 5 miles) when i pull up to park (throttle still sticky)
i hit the gas and when it idles back down it falls to 500 or so and only catches itself sometimes. usually it will just die as i am pulling into a spot where i park.
(only died in an intersection once thank god, i don't need another car accident) (two totals frontal collisions in a 6 mo period)
-i doubt this is due to my cam but maybe
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Old Oct 27, 2010 | 02:12 PM
  #14  
thomas1976's Avatar
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,199
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From: West-Central
Car: 91 Trans am
Engine: built 360 TBI
Transmission: built 700r4
Axle/Gears: 10bolt/3.23
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

What fuel pressure are you getting.
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Old Oct 27, 2010 | 03:28 PM
  #15  
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From: wisconsin
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

305 is 3.736 bore and 3.48 stroke. 350 is same stroke but 4.00 bore. Not sure how to check. Combustion chamber volume is the key. But how to measure?

GM 305 block # is 581671
350 1489863

Last edited by Ronny; Oct 27, 2010 at 03:33 PM.
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Old Nov 10, 2010 | 03:40 PM
  #16  
kyleivie's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
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From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

ok, i have yet to buy a fuel pressure gauge does anyone have any recommendations and the best point to tap in?, can i pull my fuel filter and tap there?
thanks for the info on determining the block
i will check this asap, light change messed my world up i have about 10-15 min of light after work. by the time im home its lights out.

i still haven't done my timing and i still haven't replaced my fuel filter,
both on the agenda. also plan to change over to ebl flash.

this sucks this ones supposed to be my runner, not my project!

i have to get back to the 92 tpi i'm building!
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Old Nov 10, 2010 | 05:30 PM
  #17  
thomas1976's Avatar
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 1
From: West-Central
Car: 91 Trans am
Engine: built 360 TBI
Transmission: built 700r4
Axle/Gears: 10bolt/3.23
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...sure-test.html
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 12:05 PM
  #18  
kyleivie's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7817-.../dp/B0006V2BK0
that should be all i need right? looks like the t is there.
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Old Mar 1, 2011 | 06:21 PM
  #19  
kyleivie's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Fresno, Ca
Car: 91 RS Convertible/ 92 RS TPI Swap
Engine: 90-305tbi/ 92 305tpi
Transmission: Automatics :(
Axle/Gears: Stock :(
Re: 91 TBI Sputter/ backfire/ Black smoke

i think my fuel pressure is low, its at 10. btw my dumass tried installing next to the throttle body, i bent the hell outta my lines but luckily didn't break them, then realized how much easier it would be to put it by the alternator. slap in the face, whatever.

anyway this thing is pissing me off right now.
i can't get my fan to kick on, it makes no sense.
i replaced the fan temp switch, twice. both times same oreilly, they gave me two slightly different sensors. neither work though. i think i had this 2nd one working for a day or so and now its out again. i checked and the sensor wire has power, the relays fine. my fan runs with the ac on. well i'm replacing my temp gauge sensor asap so i can read accurate temp. i know with a obd reader hooked up the reader said 190 when my gauge said 220 so..... anyways i figured well the gauge must be way off so lets let it get hot and see what happens. i left her alone for 5 mins and i come outside and shes puffin smoke! hahah man i need to wake the f up! hahaha. anyways i'm lucky as hell no problems yet. (i kicked the ac on and she cooled down quick, by the time i got my hood open the steam was basically gone, all coming from the resevoir which was still boiling crazily) learned my lesson!
any hints on the fan?
what do i need as far as tools n such to time this witch? (i know timing light and unplug est sensor, i was told u need a certain tool tho)
any ideas about the fuel pressure? would it be fpr?
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