Ok....I jacked up the car in order to tighten the collector bolts on the passenger side header. When I lowered the car again and tried to start it, it wouldn't start. I cranked it a little bit and began giving it some gas in case it was lean. Well, it finally got going, but was shooting out tons of black smoke from all the fuel. That was probably 2-3 months ago. The car is only a weekend driver, so it has not been too much of a problem. I have tried many other times to get the car started on the first time(first time in a day after sitting over night. The engine will start if it has been run before in a day. I am guessing that the engine is still warm enough to start with the extra fuel from running rich), but it will repeatedly just sit there and crank over, all the while filling up with fuel. I once made the misteak of cranking too much and had fuel running out the collector gaskets.
I disconnected the injector wires from the injectors to clean out the cylinders. When I cranked it over, it started right up and ran for a few seconds. So I figured it was running rich.
I posted something on here about it, and got a few ideas as to what it could be. So I replaced the Fuel Pump Relay, Coolant Temp Sensor, Cleaned the IAC, and Rebuilt the Fuel Pressure Regulator. None of these solved the problem of the car not starting. If the O2 sensor is reading a high value, does that mean it is going bad, or is it good? I've heard it should be around .5 or something, but mine is about .7 or so. Since this problem has started, I have noticed that my gas mileage is getting worse. I am using almost half a tank in 2 weekends and that is driving less than 100 miles. I'm sure that is normal and I am just going crazy.
I have done a few tests to try and find out what is going. The only thing I have done that has let the car start on the first try is to put a clamp in the 'in line' of the fuel lines, which I figured would cut down on the fuel pressure. It started right away after I put that on.
I have removed the easy to get to plugs on the driver's side, and they are all pretty clean. Not wet looking, but have a whitish look to them. They are normal looking when I compare them to a plug guide. So, either the engine is not getting enough air on start-up, or it's running righ on start-up. I don't think the O2 sensor has anything to do with the way the car starts, but just how it runs in the long run.
I cannot see how the engine will not start under normal starting, but when put into "choke mode" or whatever, it will start-up right away. Is there any thing else besides the IAC that determines the amount of air recieved by the egine? Also, what should the IAC do when the car is being started? I have noticed that when the key is turned on, to one space before starting, the IAC will close all the way, so that no air can get into the engine. I cannot believe that should be happening. I would think it should open. is there anything that can be done to set the IAC or else figure out what it should be doing?

If anyone can understand all that, let me know ehat you think about it. I would really like to be able to start it up.
One more thing, it doesn't matter what the temp is outside. I have tried starting it at 50 or 20. It still wont start up the first try in a day.

 

When you get the car started, run it down the street while the coolant is still cold (first 5 minutes) before the car goes into closed loop (temp below 150^F) pull the car over or back into the driveway and check the spark plugs. If they're white, it's a really lean condition, if it's wet AND black, it's rich. If it's white and wet, lean and you've got an spark problem. There is more too it but you should really look at the spark plugs to get a good idea as to what's going on.
I'm sure this isn't a major problem, might need winaldl to help pin point the problem but that [can] be a last resort.

 

where to start....
fuel running out your collector gaskets means WAY too much fuel or bad spark.
the reason stepping on your gas works in starting is that at full throttle, your car goes into flood mode (and yes, it is flooded) which shuts off your injectors and allows your engine to air out some and start because of proper air fuel mixture.
to check your spark, just get a spare plug, plug it in and hold it to a good ground with an insulated pliers to keep from gettiing shocked. then have someone start the car and watch for a deep blue spark which is good. a yellow spark is weak. if all is well, move on. i will also assume you have done a tune up recently.

your O2 sensor is supposed to adjust your fuel level when you are in closed loop or warmed up. i believe .7 is way rich. this is one of the things you should have done with the tune up. a bad O2 saensor can also burn up your cat by running the car rich. this shouldn't cause your starting problem though.

you could have leaking injectors which could be part of your problem. just unplug them and have someone turn the car over and see if they are leaking.

i would completly undo your exhaust at the headers. i had a rich problem that i could't solve topside and it turned out to be a blocked exhaust. this could keep you from getting enough O2 in your engine to light things off. anyways, it will cut out a potential problem. when i troubleshoot, i try to eliminate every system possible. if the car runs better, i know the problem is in the system i just cut out. if not, i know that there is one less thing to worry about.

test first, it doesn't cost any money and you learn something.
jess

 

Ok, well, I wont be able to do any testing until the weekend. I can only get to the car on the weekends because I am at the dorm right now. It doesn't run out the collectors all the time. Just once when the problem started and I didn't know what was going on. I am having a feeling the problem is a lack of air getting into the engine on startup. I will try to look around the IAC a bit. I'll also try and see if the injectors are leaking. The plugs and wires are new. I took a look at the cap and rotor this weekend, but I'm not sure what they should look like. I'll do the spark test on it and see what I come up with. I would run the diagnostic program on it except our laptop doesn't have a battery, so I have to run it in the garage with an extension cord
But, I'll take it for a quick spin, look at a few plugs to see what they look like after startup, then run it to look at the Oxygen sensor value that it reads when in closed loop. Don't quote me on the .7 it has been a while since I checked last. I'm not sure though. I might have it confused with the IAC value.

Is there any way for the cat to be clogged and this would happen? I have noticed that if I het my cat from the bottm, it makes rattling sounds. I am doubting that the thing is even working anymore.

I'll check that stuff out though. If there are any more suggestions, I'll try to look into those as well.
Thanks for the help though.

Tyler

 

Is there any way for the cat to be clogged and this would happen? I have noticed that if I het my cat from the bottm, it makes rattling sounds. I am doubting that the thing is even working anymore.
this is one of the checks i tell people to do to check for a bad cat. your pieces are definitly moving around inside the cat and are blocking air flow. this is why i told you to drop the exhaust at the headers. you still should to verify the problem. you will find that it will start better and you will have better power and more fuel economy. you will probably need to replace the cat. if planning upgrades, don't let it be a restriction point. you may just want to gut it. also you should still verify good spark and replace the O2 sensor if you havn't done it recently.

as for checking your cap and rotor, you look for burnt terminals inside the cap and and at the end of the rotor.
jess

 

well, from when I looked at the cap and rotor, there was some carbon buildup on the very end of the rotor, and the points inside the cap had a bunch of carbon on them. there were no noticable carbon tracks or anything that usualy screws up the spark, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with it. The CAT has been like that for a long time, but I guess that was the last straw that broke the camels back. I'll give that a shot when I go to replace some of the collector bolts. Maybe that is what is wrong. But that doesn't explain why I have to put it in choke mode to start the car. Well, maybe that puts out less fuel to start the car because it can't take in as much fuel. I'll try all this stuff when I get to the car this weekend.

Thanks for the help.

 

But that doesn't explain why I have to put it in choke mode to start the car.

yes it does. as i stated earlier, putting your foot to the floor turns off the injectors while starting. since you arn't pumping enough air through your engine, the air is saturated with fuel and can' ignite. gas dooesn't burn, only the vapors do. that is why you need to atomize (evaporate) the gas which is caused by the air moving through the intake at a decent speed. i'd be willing to be money that if you undid your connectors and put in new plugs, your car would fire right up. the reason i say new plugs is that yes, your old ones will burn clean; but plugs do get gas fouled and the gas soaks into the porcelin and provides a short to ground which results in poor spark. they usually come right back after running a bit, but some contest that they will never be 100%. it is still important to check you ign to make sure that didn't aid in the problem.
jess

 

If I disconect the exhaust after the headers and it doesn't start up. Then I still wont be able to rule out not getting enough air. I am still having a feeling that it is the IAC. If you know exactly what should happen and what it should do when the car is being started, I would like to know. Because when I try starting my car on one of those diagnostic computer programs, the IAC runs all the way in to close the air off. I'm not sure if it comes back out or not.
What tells the IAC what to do? Is there anything I should to to set it, or does it need to be set since? I took it out, and the car started right up, except for the super high idling that ocurred. So I am thinking that the IAC or the computer is confused and is messing that up which, is keeping the car from starting. That's my only major thought on it right now.

The plugs are about 2 months old. It began a little while after I changed the plugs. Maybe a little before. I got some AC Delco plugs, gaped them to the right distance, and even have new plug wires.
When I looked at the plugs last weekend, they still looked pretty clean.

 

you can do a search on how to test your iac. the brief explanation is to put the jumper wire in as you would to have the check engine light flash at you. turn the key to the on position. do not start and then unplug the iac. turn the ign off and remove the jumper. what this does is set the iac,( i forget if it is open or closed) and eliminate it from your potential problems because it isn't moving when you are driving. just do a search for more details.
jess

 

Ok... I read the post about adjusting the idle speed and everything. Sounds a little tricky but I'm sure it's just because I don't have it sitting in front of me right now. I'm going to see if I can't borrow my dad's laptop and get some readouts from it. Hopefully that will help me out. I probably should have done that in the first place.