VictorL

I went to drop the panhard bar, and the cross brace that is above it, and the bolt broke. It is on the passenger side on a bracket which also mounts the panhard bar. It is not too uncommon for these old bolts to break. But this one is SEIZED so damn tight that I cannot even budge it with a breaker bar. I can drop it from the end with the 3 bolts, and it moves up and down. The bolt will not budge or break, the bracket was flexing, and I was afraid it may get distorted from the breaker bar usage. I also tried saturating it with rust penetrant, and driving it out with a hammer, but no luck.

Any suggestions? I'm reluctant to take a torch under there because it is pretty close to the gas tank. I may also try the "press" method like how you would press out u-joints. Instead I would try a large c-clamp with a socket over the bolt head, and smaller diameter rod/bolt on the other.

Thanks for your help!
Victor

krazydiver

Try a small propane torch on the bolt. Spray it liberally with penetrant oil first. Like you said just watch the gas tank. While it is still hot try turning it. It should pop right out. Good luck!
Later,
krazydiver
91 Formula 355

Vader

Vic,

Four things have always worked for me on stubborn fasteners - penetrant, time, shock, and heat.

Apply penetrant liberally, and more than once. Allow time between the application and the attempted removal. The longer you wait, the further the oil can penetrate into the joint and crystalized iron to do its job. I've applied penetrant several days before undertaking some jobs, and give it a little extra squirt each day to keep it wet.

Since the metal molecules have co-mingled and probably crystalized together over time, a little shock loading can break those bonds and help get the joint freed. A breaker bar and hammer blow can accomplish this, or an impact wrench can do the same thing.

Heat helps in two ways - by thinning the penetrating oil and letting it soak deeper into the joint, and by softening some of the crystalized molecules. Since you are working near the fuel cell, you'll want to use this very cautiously. Sheet metal heat shields and insulation blankets can be very helpful in tight quarters.

Once you get the fasteners apart, you can elimintate this problem in the future by applying anti-seize compound to the fasteners when you reassemble. I have had even four-year old exhaust clamps come free with no problems by doing this. Even exhaust pipe joints and suspension fasteners come free with little effort. My wife says I use the stuff on my pancakes, but she appreciates the lack of profanities emanating from the garage when I'm doing routine maintenance work like this.

Later,
Vader

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"Make Me Bad"

VictorL

Thanks for the tips!
I applied more of that Liquid Wrench stuff, and will wait a few days to attempt using a torch. I looked at the area, and if I be cautious, I should have enough clearance from the fuel tank. This sucker is seized in there good!

Now I wonder if it will be okay to drive the car like that. The brace is still attached to the bracket, but it is not as tight as it was before I broke the bolt. I figure if it will not break free from all this, it won't come off.

The broken bolt is an expensive part from the dealer. I remember paying around $40-$50 just for 2 bolts and nuts.

Victor

ede

since you stand a chance of starting a fire in your fuel tank try a co2 fire extingusher. does the same thing as appling heat, but differently. don't touch anything after you do it for a while or you might be stuck to a part for a while.

merf23

I agree with all of the above...i too am a never-seize fanatic. I will add that an impact wrench often works better that a breaker bar for seized fasteners...sometimes you need to crank the air pressure pretty high though. If a bolt breaks off, i like to MIG weld a nut a couple of sizes larger onto the remaining piece, the intense heat really loosens them up. This might be something to try because it localizes the heat much better than a torch.

Vader

Merf - a Man's man! Never-Seez forever!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ede - Great idea on the "big chill". The effect should be about the same, since the idea is to move metal to free the parts. The next time I get a real S.O.B. fastener I'm going to bring home a Thermos full of liquid nitrogen and give that a try. I've transported the liquid that way before for "experiments" but never for a stubborn bolt. I'll let you know if it works.

Later,
Vader

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"Some Body...Someone"

WillDC7

Not knowing anything about suspensions, I have no idea exactly which bolt you're talking about, but have you considered trying to drill it and get an easy-out into it? ... I broke off the stud that held down my thermostat housing and had to do that.

Of course, the stud was seized so tight I broke the easy-out off in the bolt, and ended up having to drill the entire bolt out to the threads all the way through, and retap the bolt hole. Fortunately, I have an entire machine shop at my disposal, so I had the tools to do that laying around. Okay, so maybe that's not the best tactic to take

But just a thought, if all else fails, its someting else you might try.

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86 Trans Am WS6: The muscle car lives

[This message has been edited by WillDC7 (edited July 23, 2000).]

VictorL

This is the bolt that attaches that diagonal "brace" above the panhard bar. One end is fastened to the driver's side by three bolts, and the passenger end is held to a bracket by one large bolt. The nut end of the bolt sheared off, with the bolt and bolt head still seized on the brace.
The bad thing is, there is very limited room to work with. If I remove the coil spring, I'll have a few more inches. I'm going to see if I can get an impact wrench with a wobble socket in there.

The thing that sucks is that I have extra bolts. I just can't seem to break the head off this one! I'd drop the bar, and drill out the SOB! These suspension bolts are unlike regular bolts because they are stepped. I'm gonna spray it with Liquid Wrench for the next few days, and see if it helps.

TomP

VictorL, any suspension damage?

Before I bought it, my car was totalled in a rear end accident, and fixed up by a bodyman for his son.

When my fuel pump died, I couldn't get the tank down because I couldn't budge the same bolt that you're fighting.

The brace was bent, and I suppose that was from that old accident. I also assume that the bolt itself is bent. You can look for my message about the fuel pump, but basically I swung the brace down and out of the way by digging a hole in the ground. Then I could drop the tank.

Your bolt might also be bent..? I had this happen once to a strut bolt (when I jumped a curb, ouch), but I managed to get the bolt out. When I held it in my hand, yep, it was bent.

-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.v6fbody.com mailbags

VictorL

It is quite possible, now that you brought that up, Tom. The car was hit a few years back on the left rear quarter. Hard enough to bend the lower control arm and rear axle. I replaced all the damaged parts. The brace did not appear damaged. Any force would easily bend that flimsy piece. These bolts are so tough that the parts would give before the bolt will bend. I can drop that brace from the other end like you did, and swivel it out of the way.
I'm going to try everything that was suggested here...I'll free that bolt/part if its the last thing I do on that car!

It all started out as a simple exhaust install!

FJK

The best penetrant you can get is a product called Kroil ("the oil that creeps"). You usually have to find it at an industrial hardware supply outfit. It comes in 1 gallon containers & aresol. A combo of these usually cost $32. Expensive, but effective. Also, another way to make any penetrant effective is to vibrate the frozen bolt using an air powered "muffler gun" & a pointed drift.