I will prolly get at least some of the following done. could you guys give me an average cost I can expect to pay..so I don't get ripped since I've never done this before.

Milling heads/intake

heads cut for 2.02/1.6 valves

Cutting heads for larger valve springs

new valve guides

zero decking the block

Thanks in advance

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DOH!...sorry about trhe misspelled topic..I'm dead tired.

 

Ya know...at first I was trying to figure out what a "Ned machine" was

Tell ya what, machine shop costs are 99% labor...can't really compare...but from the work you want done (you forgot to mention the cost of new valves), you be better off, IMO, looking the many cast iron performance heads ready to bolt on....and you won't have to mill the intake.

Standard rebuild (surfacing, bronze inserts, seats cuts, and valve's ground) runs in the 300-400 per set range around here...now pull 50 bucks out for the actual grind of the valve, but exhange that price with 150 for new, decent name, valves, add the work to recut the heads, buy new seats and install, and I'd guess (around here) you'd be in the 600 range...easily...then add a few more bucks for new springs, retainers, etc...now you're close to $700.00.

Anyway, call a shop, get a price, then thumb through Jegs, Summit, PAW, etc.

 

Jester,

Around these parts, when we "ned" machine work, a lot of it gets done in the garage.

I did recently get a valve seat enlargement and deep pocket porting for $250.00 in labor. It was somewhat of a rush and I didn't have the cutters for the multiple angles.

Other prices I've been quoted recently:
* Head milling - $60.00/pair any amount of removal;
* Spring seat machining to 1.550" $85.00;
* Pulling, milling bosses, tapping for screwed studs - $ 82.00
* Align boring the case - $120.00 (fit new 4-bolt caps at the same time);

Sorry, no help on re-decking/zero-decking quotes.

Incidentally, I ended up with a spring seat/guide cutter for about $40.00. I saved a few bucks and some time at the machine shop and can do all I want until I break the cutter. As long as I don't try to machine titanium heads, that may be a while. I also have a stud puller/tap guide that was about $15.00. Milling the bosses flat is plain end mill work.

Don't think that you necessarily need a mill in your garage to do this kind of work, although it is easier. Many of these cutters are available through industrial suppliers and are intended for use with portable milling equipment (like Climax mills). These cutters can be fit with pilots and used in a heavy duty ½" electric drill press at low speeds to perform the same work. Aluminum and iron castings are among the easiest metals to machine, and good results can be obtained if you are liberal with the cutting oils. Many of these spring seat, valve guide, rocker stud, and valve bowl tasks can be done this way since all the machining is concentric.

Align boring requires a horizontal mill or boring machine, and flat milling heads or decks requires a vertical or horizontal mill, and fitting main caps should really be done with a surface grinder, so you can't do it all with portable tools.

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Later,
Vader
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Since everyone already gave you total cost and breakdown, I'll provide what I paid for decking.

~$250 (included testing block, cleaning, new freeze plugs)

As for "zero decking the block", it almost sounds like you want them to remove zero amount from the block. Or do you mean you want the pistons at zero deck height? For that you must measure where the piston sits in the bore (everything installed, even bearings) and have the machine shop mill that amount. As an example, my pistons sat at .030" deck height and I had the machine shop mill .025" from the block. For safety, please allow .040" clearance (deck height and compressed gasket thickness) from the cylinder head to the top of the piston at the very least, other wise your pistons could give a deadly kiss to your heads.

Oh, one last thing. When selecting a machine shop, ask the local die-hard racers where they get their machine work done. Chances are they will be your best and honest bet (based on my experience).

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George P. Lara
1994 Z28 LT1 T56
1984 Z28 High Output
Member: SCCA, SCFB, SC3GFB

[This message has been edited by MRZ28HO (edited November 03, 2000).]

 

I can’t comment on the heads. I either refurbish them myself or buy new ones. I have found that it is much more cost efficient to buy new heads unless the owner wants to keep the engine stock for memorabilia reasons. World and the now independent Dart steel heads are so darn reasonable anymore, it’s really hard to rebuild a set of production heads that the other two wont out perform right out of the box. AFR is also making a steel head now that looks excellent for a reasonable price.

I can’t agree more strongly with George. Do not, under any circumstances “price shop” with machine work. Poor/cheap machine work will cost you much more than top-end shop costs in the long run. I’m not saying to find the most expensive shop and go there. Just be very selective where you go. Let them know you have a good bore gauge and express “the fact” that you know how to use it. Go where the serious racers go.

When decking the block, shops will either do it by mocking up the assembly and determining deck height or they will use a “Tru-Block” fixture. The Tru-Block” is a spendy bugger but a much more accurate way to determine deck height and cylinder angle/geometry. If the shop has one, then it’s most likely a “high end” shop. This fixture will also be used to locate the cylinder “true center” in relation to crank center when boring. Most shops just center the bore off the existing location which is the incorrect way to do it.

I would recommend that you get the block sonic checked prior to any machine work. Depending on your expected power levels, shoot for a minimum .200” (after final hone)on the thrust sides of the cylinder walls. If the numbers come in low, sometimes the bores can be "shifted" to optimise wall thickness. Make sure that you see the map prior to any machine work, that will keep the shop honest.

Having the block shot peened is another good idea. It’s a great way to stress relieve the block and it makes it look better-than-new.

Having the block bored with a .005” torque plate finish hone is a must. This is pretty much a standard procedure anymore. If the shop charges extra for this service, then they are a “low-end” shop.

Another good performance block upgrade is to have the lifter bores aligned honed and bushed. This is an expensive service, but worth it for high performance builds.

If your re-using the main caps, you might want to consider having them re-surfaced, shot peened and line honed.

Okay, I’ll stop spending your money now.

Mike

 

vader have you ever used a stud boss cutter? i got a manely one few years back and it is a PITA, ineffective and hard to use. i mill them my self but for what it cost a machine shop would of been cheaper.

 

Ed,

Pull the studs, tap in an Ace rod or tooling pin to indicate the head in squarely, jig it in the mill accordingly, then walk around the area with an end mill at a definite stop depth. The hardest part of the job is usually findind the tooling to jig the heads squarely, with either step blocks, plain parallels, washers, clamps, etc. The rest is rudimentary machining. I try to take just enough to insure that the thickness of a guide plate won't affect final valve train geometry with a standard push rod length.

I've seen the special cutters offered by several companies, but never purchased any since standard tooling is available that will do the job satisfactorily. I usually don't go for speed or turnaround time, so I can spend a little more time machining and producing a better surface finish. A standard boring head works well for spring seats, and the fly tool can be reversed to machine for stem seals of any size imagineable.

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Later,
Vader
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"Make Me Bad"
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