A guy wants to sell me a rebuilt 1970 350 with STOCK "High compression heads" that he claims makes 330 horses. He says he pulled it out of a chevelle SS. Is he full of crap? Or is it possible I've found the proverbial diamond in the rough? He says it's all stock, and it's just been gone through to refresh it. for $600, it sounds too good to be true, cause a 330 horse crate'll cost me $2000. Where can I check the engine #'s to see if he's for real? Help FAST!!! 'cause if it's real I want it yesterday!!!!

 

You'll have to remove a valve cover and read the head casting number between the springs. Also look for factory screwin studs
and guide plates.

You can check the block number too.

It may have a serial # stamped on the block deck pad under the alternator. This numbers can tell you where it origionally came from.

Get the numbers and we'll tell you wether its a hiperf motor or not.
You should do a compression check to see if the motor is healthy.

 

Get the casting #'s and go here
http://www.mortec.com Theres not a lot of detailed info, but still has a lot of good info on heads, blocks and cranks.

 

I'll call him and ask him to give me the block #s, I don't think he'll want to do much more than that. He's invited me to come check it out and do a compression check, but he's over 2 hours away, and I don't want to road-trip it unless I'm buying the thing, so I'll have to do a check then. What range should the compression be for an engine like that?

 

I doubt the block number will be able to tell you anything except that it has a 4" bore and was in a '70 model car.

What you really need to know is the head casting numbers, which you only have to pull the valve covers to find.

Also, if it really is a high-performance engine, it probably has 4 bolt mains too. I know that the old LT-1s, Z/28s and L79 (350/350hp) all had 4 bolt main engines, plus all the high-performance 327s and 302s.

If it does in fact have 2 bolt mains, it could still be what he says it is, but its more reason to make sure.

Compression should be around 160-180psi I would think.

 

Never seen a documented case of a 4bolt 327, heard from many who say "I know a guy...", etc.

Not trying to start a war or anything, but do you know what vehicle the 4blt 327 came in? Always been curious about that.

327's were pretty popular for building back when I grew up, long before anyone heard of splayed caps...all the talk was "Great motor, sure wish they had 4bolt mains"

I'm thinking the only thing that could be a possibility would be a larger truck, bus, etc.

Back to the orginal post...The heads are a start for what potential you have, but until pulled and inspected (or documented proof of what/how the engine was built), there's really no way of knowing what you have.

 

There were no SS 350 Chevelles in 1970.

Big-blocks were all that was available in the SS Chevelle in 1970.

If it is a 1970 350 block, and came with a factory 4-barrel carb (even a Quadrajet), it has a strong chance of being a 4-bolt block.

Also, I've never seen a 4-bolt 327 block either, and I've worked on many 327s.

Do the cylinder heads have double-humps on the ends?

If so, my money would be that the engine is a 300-horse 350, which was available throughout the Chevrolet car line. Many (but not all) even had a steel crank.

A great start to build a super engine from.

jms

 

That's not the same as "came in a Chevelle SS". There's no such thing as a 70 Chevelle SS with a 350; and any Chevelle SS that did come with a 350, would be 74 up, so the motor will be the same 180 HP 70s smogger turd as any other 70s smogger turd out of an Impala or any other car, since simply having been wrapped in sheet metal covered with "SS" stickers does not magically impart any special properties to a 70s smogger turd.

At least he isn't trying to use that old classic of a sucker line, "from a Vette". It's utterly amazing how many used motors there are these days "from out of a Vette"; like that makes it special or something. It's a come-on designed to put stars in the eyes of uninformed impressionable buyers, and is a lie the huge majority of the time.

Don't fall for the "330 HP" line of BS unless you drive it and are familiar with what a 330 HP 350 is like. You haven't found a diamond in the rough, that's almost for certain. You've found somebody trying to maximize profit by inventing a good story line.

Get casting numbers before you pay any more for it than you would for any other 350 core ($150 or so). Odds are it's not runnable as it is, so it's just a core, and therefore its only value is that of the castings. Of those, the only ones that really matter are the heads. If the guy wants to sell it for more than $150, he needs to come up with some sort of proof that it's worth more than $150. If he can't, or won't, pass on it; and let some other sucker get swindled.

 

I'll bet there are over 1000 "performance motors" for sale within 2 hrs drive of your house.
It takes about 10 minutes to R&R a valve cover and read the cylinder head casting#'s
If the seller won't help id and verify that it is infact a hi-perf motor just pass on it and find another.

When it comes to used motors, its a buyers market.

 

Well, I called him and he's going to get me the head casting numbers. I believe that HE believe's what he's saying. I'm just not sure that he's got the right info. I'll know in a coupla days though. He also said that he had it rebuilt a couple months ago, but it's been sitting on a stand since. He's going to set it up so I can hear it run before I buy it if it comes to that. I am curious about the no 350s in 1970 chevelles part though. Kinda makes me thing someone might have suckered him.

 

There were 350s in 70 Chevelles.... just not in Chevelle SSs. Back then the 350 was the little motor we all used to avoid, in those years it was the 2-barrel motor for grandma cars, even when it had a 4-barrel on it. If you wanted power you got a big block.

 

But the 1970 350/300hp motor is a high compression motor and comes with good heads (although with 1.94x1.50" valves) . Its 10.25:1 and has "186" or "041" heads. Available in Impala, Chevelle, Corvette etc.
This the most likely "High compression" motor you'll find.

 

Exactly.

But in order to know that, you either have to check the casting number, or know the casting mark to look for. Here's the mark.

I'll bet money that motor doesn't have a set of these on it. These are the 186s that F-bird mentioned. 041s have the same mark. Don't fall for the "almost as good" line; there's no such thing. Either they are double-humps or they're not. Above all, if they don't have the bolt holes in the ends of them, don't bother, they can't fit your car.

 

does that block say (509)?

 

Yes.

 

ok, I'm not 100% on what I should be looking for here. The double hump mark is the 2 identical indentation/humps, right? clearly shown on both pictures. Where on the heads would I find this mark? top? ends? sides? can it be seen with the valve covers on? What is the significance of the circular dots casting mark? If the heads are on a 350, but don't have bolt holes in the ends of them, why can't they fit in my car? is it an accessory issue? Lastly, how can I tell if they are 186's or 041's? is this the beginning of the casting number? What is the difference between the two if they BOTH have the double humps? And what is special about 509??

I feel so illiterate.

 

The mark is on the ends of the heads, exactly as you see it on the ones in the pics. Those heads have valve covers on them; they are aluminum L98 ones, you can see the VC at the top half of the lower pic, so that will give you a good idea of where to look; it's on both ends of the heads. The circular dots is a shift code for when the block was cast. The bolt holes are not really necessary; if you choose to do without minor thigns like an alternator, not to mention A/C and PS, you don't have to have tehm, but you'll need them to keep those things. Some cars did not use them, because they used an alternate bracket arrangement that won't fit these cars because it uses the exhaust manifolds, and those particular exh manifolds will not work in one of these chassis. Even if the heads don't have the holes, they will "fit" on a 350, just not our cars. Those 3 digits are the last 3 of the casting number, which is visible under the VCs in between some of the rockers, and on some heads, on the underside of the intake ports. The ones in the pic are 186s, their full casting # is 3927186. The double-hump marking indicated the highest-performance heads they put on factory motors, or over-the-counter racing motors, or as over-the-counter parts, in the late 60s and very early 70s; heads with that mark would have come on 302s, 350s in Z28s, the optional Vette motors, etc.; as well as being the "service parts" that were sold to race teams for professional racing (casting # 292 is a popular angle-plug version). They might also come on 350 4-barrels in Impalas, Monte Carlos, etc, in 69 & 70. 509 is the casting number for a late 400 block, which is what the motor in the pic with those heads on it is - a 73 400 block.

 

ok, just for S&G I went out and took the valve covers of my 305 to look for the casting #'s. On the driver's side head I found where it said 14014416. next to the opposite arm it had a B and a 2 at an angle, then a little space, and a 3. closer to the firewall, there was a GM and a 4. Is the 14014416 my head's casting #, even though it has 8 digets and yours has 7? I'm going to that Moretech site to see if I can find anything about my heads, just to make sure I found the right place to look on this mystery 350.

Also- Thank you for all the information and time you're taking to explain all this- I'm feeling less illiterate.

 

yep. I'm in the money. That # matches up with my dinky little 305. Now if this guy will just call me with the # from the 350...

 

If that 350 does turn out to be what RB so lovingly calls a "...'70s smogger turd..." then it will more than likely have dished pistons unless he replaced them. A bad set of castings would be something like the very common and mucho-resento #882's.

I mention this, because if it does infact have a bad set of castings on it and has dished pistons, then those #416 heads you have on your 305 would be a great set to bolt on with only a little bit of work to help them feed the extra 45 more cubes a little better.

 

well, either this guy is jerking me around or he's a moron. He called and left "V0406TJS" on my answering machine as "the engine number". The V could have been a Z, and he made a big deal about the first O or 0 being rectangular. I looked around online and I think the V is for a V8 out of Flint plant, but I couldn't find anything else. I'm starting to not like talking to this guy, so if someone can decode the number and give me a reason to not call the guy and demand a head casting number, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't find anything like this on Moretec, was I looking in the right place?

 

V0406TJS
Made in Flint on April 06 and was destined for a bus or van in
73,77,or79. RPO LS9, 165 horse ground pounding, children hauling, monster, lol.
You still should get a head casting #.

 

Hey!! That's funny!! 'cause right after I logged off I said "what the hell" and called the guy, left him a message asking specifically for head casting numbers, and then went to the bar. I get back to a belligerent message stating that "he's done as much as he's going to do for anybody, the engine is $600, I can hear it run, and he's not doing anything else for it!!" I think ya'll just helped me avoid a "70's smogger turd" or whatnot. As is, that 165 horse is only 25 over what my puny 305 kicks out (I think) and I'm a little pissed he tried to tell me a VAN engine came out of a chevelle SS. Damn stars in my eyes. Hey, but huge thanks to all on this thread. Taught me alot, and kept my money where it belongs. In my girlfriend's pocket.

 

Lol, just wait until you marry her...the money will still be in her pocket, but you can no longer call it your money...

 

Thankfully, she thinks it's "cute" when I'm out in the garage swearing at the car. I think she feels it's like a manly set of Legos or something. At least my dog understands me....