This weekend, I finished porting the plenum, put on a new IAC, did a TB by-pass, gutted the MAF, and put in a double roller timing chain set 2* advanced.
Now the car wont start up. I'm thinking that since my timing was set at 10* before, and now I've up the cam 2*, plus considering the chain had a little slop, that this my be the problem. I just need to play with the timing to get it to start, then adjust it from there.
Anyone have any comments???


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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Why won't it start? Do you have all 3 of the necessary ingredients: fuel, ignition, compression? Which is missing?

Check for fuel by spraying some ether into the throttles. If it starts then dies you've got a fuel problem. If it doesn't, disconnect a plug wire, hook it up to a spare plug, set it where the shell of the plug is grounded, and have someone crank it while you watch for spark.

Changing the timing a few degrees won't create a no-start condition. It might be hard to start, or run wrong once it does, but it should run. There's something else going on. It's probably one of those things that's so obvious you'll embarrass yourself when you find it, like the 12V wire unplugged from the distributor or some such.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Got your idle screw up high enough? I know if its too low the car wont start esp when replacing the IAC. Put your foot on the peddle a little then try.

 

I tried the mashing pedal trick, and I also have pressure in the rails. I am wandering if it could have something to do with the IAC. I just slapped the new one in when I assembled the plenum. Did I screw something up here?

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

TTT

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Air molecules aren't picky; they'll support combustion whether or not they've been through the IAC. Fuel molecules are the same way; as long as they get in the cylinders, they'll burn, they're not too proud to burn just because they didn't get there through an injector. Forget all that as the cause of your symptom.

Nothing you say you have done will create a no-start condition by itself. Hard starting, maybe; run terrible, maybe; not a no-start. Try some starting fluid. It either will or win't run. If it does, you know you have a fuel problem; if not, it's either ignition or cmompression. Just take it logically and don't stab blindly at things without reasoning your way through.

Again, don't overlook the obvious. Is the 12V plugged in to the distributor? The injector connector hooked back up? etc. etc. Retrace your steps. You'll probably find it and kick yourself and learn something never to do again.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

im gonna go with RB. could have been something dumb....like forgot to reconnect something....or not securely. maybe injector, sensor, something little

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Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 small block, Hooker 1 3/4 LTs, Random Tech Cat, Hooker aero chamber cat back on the way!!
TH700-R4 with Trans-Go shift kit (corvette servo here...but not installed yet)
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Classic White Chevy Bowtie sticker on rear window
http://www.geocities.com/esvalenz

Man if my camaro were a rice-rocket all those mods would give me what...easily 50-60 hp!!!

"Just because I've done it, doesn't mean I knew what I was doing!" - Me

 

ok is the engine stock?? if not do you have a comp cam>? if so they come from comp with 5* advance already ground into them! and the extra 2* doesnt help it henders the whole engine big time.......i did this myself you'l have to re-pull the whole balancer/ timing cover stuff and put it back to 0* and it'l run fine. the slop in the chain is because you have it advanced. put it back at 0 and it'll fit really tight... guanranteed!!!! i did the same thing! in a effort to get that extra something from the negine! even on a stock engine it wont help!
also try retarding the timing big time it should start if the distributor is stabbed right!
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1989 firebird formula

Mods: converted from T.B.I. to a carburator 305 to a 350. Flowmater exhaust,hedman shortie hedders,202 heads,350 horse cam,bored.40 over, Edlebrock torker2 intake.

Future mods performer rpm air gap intake (polished) and 600 edlebrock carb, comp roller cam, and way better headsa 400 defintely in the works!

[This message has been edited by burnoutrpm (edited January 22, 2001).]

 

How tight the timing chain is has nothing to do with the cam timing. Please stop giving out bad advice.


I'd go where RB suggests, no start is no fuel, no spark, or no compression, you pick one. Tell me if when you are trying to start it if it attempts to fire up or it just spins and does nothing.

 

OK, Its bone stock, and I went out last night after work and tried moving the distributer. It acts like it almost catches, yet doesn't, and even has a little run off when I let the key go. I've looked to see if I missed anything, but I was in a hurry, and only had about 5 mins to look. Meanwhile, battery is now run down, and still no start.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

How did you put the distributor back on?

When I did my car, after rebuilding the distributor, I had the #1 cyl at TDC (figured I'd make things easy on myself). I installed the distributor straight on 0 degrees advance, and figured I'd time it to 10 deg BTC with my timing light.

The car didn't run... I had to manually spin the distributor in the advance direction (I can't remember if that's clockwise or CCW) to get the car to start; then I had to finish the job with my timing light. Maybe you just need to spin the distributor more?


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

I never pulled the distributor. I hope to try again this evening.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Sounds to me like its timing. See if you cant get a helper and put a timing light on it and see where its at while cranking, I'm thinking its too far off to start the car. May have missed your mark (I hope you made one) by a tooth, that will do it every time.

 

Is there a way to check if I'm off a tooth without ripping it all apart again?

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

If you didn't pull the distributor out, then it's still right where it was in relation to the cam. What ever you do, don't go messing with that now, you'll just get yourself in deeper.

It's possible that the cam & crank aren't lined up correctly, which is what the marks on the gears do. But if you're pretty sure that's right, then check the stuff that's easier to get to first.

The simplest way to check the timing is to take out the #1 plug; watch in the cylinder for the piston to come to TDC; and look at the rotor and see if it's pointing to the #1 or the #6 plug wire tower (both of those fire at #TDC, #1 at #1 firing of course, and #6 as the #1 exhaust valve closes and its intake opens). Since you didn't disturb the relation of the dist to the cam, if the dist is right, then the cam is too; and if the dist is wrong, then so is the cam.

I still think it will turn out to be some simple little thing that got disturbed outside the engine, that a really thorough visual inspection will find. Alternatively, have you tried starting fluid and a spare spark plug yet? Does the engine seem to have normal compression?

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

It does seem to have normal compression as it turns over. When I get home, I will try the starting fluid and spark plug idea. Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how it turns out in about 5 hours.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

I was thinking for some stupid reason he had the intake off... I think I better stop thinking LOL!
Well... at least you have plenty of stuff to check out.

[This message has been edited by madmax (edited January 23, 2001).]

 

Ok-Just took a look at things. Everything looks like its hooked up right. Tried starter fluid-no. Checked for spark-got spark. Pulled the distributor cap, and placed the harmonic balancer right at 0*. the rotor is pointing about 3-5* off from my orginal mark I make on the plenium awhile back. or if your looking at my mark on the plenium, about 1/4" off. Is this because of setting the timing chain 2* advanced, or because I was off a tooth?

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Most likely, the difference in the mark is because the new chain has less slack than the old one. Sounds like you're good there, at least within a range where it should run. You could be off one tooth, but the engine should still start, it might run weird but should start. Again, that's not going to create a no-start condition.

Did the spark look like a big fat purple arc that mostly filled up the gap of the plug, as opposed to a weak bluish-white one? If not, check the rotor and cap. If it is, mark where the ignition timing is, then move it by the distance it difers from its old spot, first one direction then the other, and see if it will run at all in either alternate location.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

I'll try, the wife will be home in about 20mins, she has the jumper cables in her car.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Ok- I've moved the distributor enough now that my orginal mark is now in between #1 and #8. It started up, and at no load, it sounds good, yet under load (driving) it has no power until 2500rpm, then it'll go, yet not like it should. My guess, I must be off a tooth. Any opinions???

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

After all this cranking and not starting and jumping check the plugs! After installing my L98 I had a bad ground and eventually the car went to a no-start condition. After fixing the ground the car still would not start. Just before I towed it to the dealership I pulled #1 plug. Completely BLACK! I put an old set of plugs in and it fired right up and ran perfect! It's the stupidest things!

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Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI
Edelbrock Hi-Flow Intake
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92Z28convt5spd
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

P.S.-I've also adjusted the timing to 10*.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Yay!!! At least it runs, so now you can figure out what happened.

It sounds to me like the cam is one or maybe 2 teeth retarded. Moving the cam that direction produces the effect you describe. So now you get to pop the timing cover back off, and align it properly. Bummer.

But at least you know it runs!

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Great-the one time my thread has a flame on it for high reply's, its because I screwed up.

Thanks everyone for your help, I think when I rip it apart this time, I'll just install it at 0*, I'll be able to make sure its in right that way.

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI

 

Before you get out the balancer puller
check your vacuum at idle and check compression.
With fresh plugs, it might be O.K.

 

Not to sound cheap, but do you think new plugs may do the trick. I've only got about 3000 miles on the plugs now. Do you think they could be fouled out to the point of needing replacement?

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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI