Is there anyone from CA around here with a 3rd gen? I ran my car on this gas last spring and it ran like a 4 cyl? I hear that the reformulated stuff is terrible for older engines, does anyone know why? I can't imagine owning a 3rd gen down there, what do you people do? I'm moving down to Sacramento area from Washington next month so this could be a problem. I'm hoping to have my car sold by then, i'd hate to have it down in CA with that gas. My fiance has an old Volvo that is also choking on the stuff. What can you do?

 

Since I live in CA I obviously run the local gas all the time. I have no problems at all. If you ran noticably worse after filling up, you must have gotten contaminated gas or something.

 

i live in california, never hadda problem with bad gas. all i know is the junk is too dam expensive.

daniel

 

too expensive? Last year in Milwaukee gas was over $2.00 a gallon, and the crap is that nasty reformulated garbage... and it's supposed to be that expensive again this summer... grrr...

Jon

 

my everyday experience with Cali gas has been ok, but I and some other people I know have gotten bad gas before.

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90 IROC 5.7l (L98)
ram air, K&N's, air foil,Flows

LIKE A ROC

 

Yah, my car runs like crap on CA gas. It was only 280 HP and 380 TQ at the rear wheels. And its only gone a best of 13.25 @ 107.18. What a slug my car is on that CA gas.

------------------
West Coast GM Shootout 2001!
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Hello, was somebody complaining about gas prices? Over here the cheapest gas costs more than 1 USD per LITER, so the gallon should cost around $4

We can only get 95, 98 and 100 octane.

 

Nonni,

Yes, we are a bunch of whiners, aren't we?

The part that makes it difficult to accept is that prices just a few weeks before were around $1.35 / USG, then rose 50% within a month. As of today, prices are around $1.44 national average, and are prediced to rise to well over $2.00 again this summer. This almost sounds like an intentional supply restraint to control prices. This would be the same as your $4.00 / USG rising to $6.00 / USG in the warmer months. Does that occur there, too? I'd be curious if it did.

If I operated a comodity business, I would be tempted to produce more now in an effort to be able to meet later demand at a higher margin - i.e., more money in my pocket. After all, oil refiners have a 50+ year history of market forces and utilization to be able to predict expected demand for the summer. Wouldn't it be reasonable to believe that they should anticipate an increased demand and adjust reserves over the course of the entire year? If these people were farmers, we'd all be starving or paying $45.00 for a loaf of bread in January.

I guess the fact that 15% of our crude oil is imported means that the remaining 85% of the base stock is subject to the same kinds of supply problems. When I finally understand that one, I'm going to buy a company called "MicroSoft" and have a legal monopoly so that I can't be accused of price-fixing.

I know, I know... Waah! Waah!

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Later,
Vader
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"I'm'a do Things My Way - It's My way or the Highway."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

Those of you from CA, esp. MR. 280HP, are your cars specially equipped for CA emissions? I don't know if that would be from a different PROM or what. I also have a hypertech chip, so that might advance my timing so that it is more sensitive to the quality of the gas. Next time you fill up take a look at the pump. Last time I saw a notice on the pump that said that reformulated gas can clog the fuel systems of older cars. No joke, this was at a Texaco in Davis.

 

Im pretty sure the reformulated gas is only the 87. If you notice, at every gas station, they only have a sticker on the 87 pump.

 

Really? I thought that it was reformulated for all grades. My fiance has had trouble with 89 in her Volvo, same effect, no power at all (not that Volvo's are speed demons).

 

Don't forget too that most places east of the US tax the sh*t out of their gas. They're still paying the same market price for their imported crude that we are.

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85T/A 305/QJ work in progress.

[This message has been edited by Skip Howard (edited March 08, 2001).]

 

I heard that in CA with reformed gas is causing ALOT of problems with Vortec CFI motors plugging the poppet injectors and costing GM alot in warranty claims.


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'88 Camaro RS 2.8L
'88 Formula 350 (Too many mods to list...)

 

I am the original owner of my car and having been putting CA gas in it since day one and do not have any problems. I have mods such as headers,fastchip,1:6 rockers and other things and I pass smog with no problem. I know gas is high but be glad you do not have to deal with gas lines like I did back in the 70's. Gas Stations closing at 5 in the afternoon,a limit on what you can get etc.

 

I heard that was just Chevron gas.

 

My car runs like hammered dog plop on this stuff out here. My brother-in-law, who drove it out here from TN, said that the first time he filled it up in CA, it started running bad. I've had to recalibrate 2 carbureted cars since I've gotten here; the third one I have needs it too, but I doubt I'll bother with that one. Our FI car seems to do just fine though. I think the computer learns to deal with fuel that's 10% oxygen, which makes a car with no compensation for it run extremely lean.

All our cars get worse mileage on this stuff than they did before.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Maybe that's a good reason to get rid of those Vortec systems! I actually like how they run, but I hate working on them. I had to put an intake gasket on a 97 c2500, and I lost money on the job (rare that I lose money on a job.) THe 4.3 Vortec that I did last week was ok, but that V-8 sucked!

Anyway, to get back on topic, I have noticed my gas mileage being in the toilet recently. I don't know what they're doing here in Ohio, but my mileage sucks in 2 out of 3 of my vehicles.



------------------
Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand.

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

ASE Certified Master Tech

 

I have had bad experiences with California Gas, until I bought my T/A. Some guy in Texaco (a bookworm) told me that using Texaco Gas 92 octane for at least 1 year, your Engine will run very well compared to other Gas Stations around.

Now I don't know if that's true, but since i've been using Texaco for about a year or so now, my car has no problems.

fyi

 

Here in Calgary--this city is like the Dallas of Canada--the price of a liter of 87 octane gas is 71.4 cents today. (Yesterday it was 67.4 and a week or two ago it was 64.4. It has been as low as 53 cents in the last six months.)

That is the equivelent of about $1.85/gallon US.

This city is floating on oil, so there is no excuse for this kind of gouging. Other than the fact we have a hard right-wing, Big Business Friendly (and proud of it, in fact near-fascist) provincial government.

In the US you folks are stuck with Big Oil Friendly George Bush, from Texas no less. Don't expect W. to side with the consumer. He was even defending the electricity monopolists raping California the last couple of years. And what of all that stock he dumped on unsuspecting buyers of his company's equities 10 years ago??? Another "smile while you stab 'em in the back" Republican administration, eh? Most of my historian acquaintances are absolutely stupefied by how much this decade resembles the end of the Gilded Age, the 1890s.

I REALLY wanted to like W. too

Sorry Vader, I think you guys are in for a tough time as long W. is in the White House. Not to mention "Haliburton Oil Cheney"!!!

 

I did a LEXIS-NEXIS search and have pasted in a representative hit. My guess is that ethanol is being added in CA. That would yield less HP and MPG.

Kevin

Copyright 2001 The Oregonian
The Oregonian


July 5, 2001 Thursday SUNRISE EDITION

SECTION: LOCAL STORIES; Pg. B03

LENGTH: 792 words

HEADLINE: STATE URGED TO DROP ETHANOL FROM GAS

SOURCE: BRENT HUNSBERGER - The Oregonian

BODY:
Summary: Association says Portland no longer needs additive to lower pollution; ethanol producers disagree

The petroleum industry is pressuring Oregon environment officials to lift a wintertime fuel additive requirement aimed at curbing carbon monoxide pollution.

The Western States Petroleum Association says Portland no longer needs ethanol added to gasoline to meet federal air quality standards. It joined the Oregon Petroleum Marketers Association in warning that the industry might have trouble supplying ethanol to California in 2003, when that state phases out the use of the troublesome additive MTBE, or methyl tertiary-butyl ether.

"With the Portland area now in (compliance), we see no reason to keep the requirements for oxygenated fuel," wrote Steve O'Toole, executive director of the petroleum marketers association, in a June 11 letter to the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality. "We are of the belief that ethanol will be in short supply because of actions in a number of states to ban the use of MTBE." A spokesman with the California Air Resources Board echoed the industry's position, saying that lifting Portland's ethanol requirement could keep gasoline costs lower in California.

"It certainly would (help)," said Jerry Martin, the board's spokesman. "Whatever ethanol Portland is using could be used in California."

But ethanol producers Friday sharply denied those claims, saying they can already meet California's anticipated demand. Industry officials expect 34 ethanol plants will expand and 12 new plants will be built by next year, including at least one in Oregon's Columbia County.

Recognizing the disagreement, DEQ plans to convene a task force this fall to study the issue and recommend action, said Annette Liebe, the agency's airshed planning manager.

Oregon now requires gasoline to contain up to 10 percent ethanol in winter to curb carbon monoxide emissions from vehicles. Carbon monoxide poses health risks, particularly to people with cardiovascular diseases, because it enters the bloodstream and hampers how oxygen is delivered to body organs and tissues.

Ethanol comes mostly from Midwestern corn, but also is made from potato processing wastes and beer brewing wastes. Researchers say wood waste shows promise as a clean, effective source of ethanol.

Despite improvements in cleaner-burning gasoline and engines, some regulators are questioning ethanol's effectiveness.

Earlier this year, DEQ lifted the ethanol requirement in Medford, Klamath Falls and Grants Pass, in part because local drivers complained that the additive reduced fuel efficiency and caused their fuel filters to clog, Liebe said. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency approved the removal.

"From a purely carbon monoxide standpoint, we agree ethanol is not needed," DEQ's Liebe said. "There are other environmental benefits that people are alleging exist."

State officials say Portland's carbon monoxide levels have improved in the past decade. But two years ago, city of Portland officials resisted an effort by DEQ to remove ethanol from the gasoline supply, citing its benefits in reducing toxic air pollution and greenhouse gases.

According to EPA records, Portland's highest carbon monoxide concentration in 1999 was 7 parts per million. That was below the federal standard of 9.5 parts per million but still among the higher levels in the country. According to the EPA, higher levels were reported only by Los Angeles; El Paso, Texas; Fresno, Calif.; Omaha, Neb.; Phoenix, Ariz.; and San Juan, Puerto Rico. The national average in urban areas is about 5 parts per million.

California has used MTBE to curb carbon monoxide emissions. But the state banned MTBE amid mounting evidence that it had polluted drinking water supplies, caused cancer in rats and posed health risks to humans at levels as low as 2 parts per million.

California had sought a waiver from oxygenating gasoline, arguing that its unique standards for refineries made its gasoline clean enough. But the Bush administration rejected the request, and state officials say ethanol is their only alternative. They estimate California will use 580 million gallons by 2003.

The Renewable Fuels Association, the trade group for ethanol producers, insists it can meet that demand, saying current production should exceed 1.8 billion gallons this year, with more production plants slated to come on line next year. One entrepreneur has proposed a $230 million ethanol plant in Columbia County that industry officials say could produce 84 million gallons per year, enough to meet Portland's supply. Celilo Group, a Portland-based firm promoting renewable energy, has formed a joint venture to build another ethanol plant in Boardman.

LOAD-DATE: July 6, 2001

 

You know, if the US establishment was actually serious about reducing air polution and the process was not entirely in the control of a handful of special interest groups and government officials that they own, the country would be vigorously encouraging fuels like propane and natural gas for cars.

Instead, we are treated to the totally bizarre scenario of farmers growing food to be turned into a gas thinning additive. People are starving all over the world but special interests keep high taxes on sensible fuels like propane.

And folks think the government actually cares--or even sincerely listens