I've been attempting my first large undertaking in a V8. A monumental task since I have nobody to call who can come and check my work. Thanks to everyone who has helped me this far on this site and through email.

I have a couple of questions concerning the behavior of the car during the 30 minute break in.

First let me describe what took place, so that if there are any errors in my steps that would cause one of these problems, you'll know and can say, "You idiot, you should've....." and so on.


I of course lubed the cam according to the instructions, and set the rocker arm adjustment at zero. I want to go back and check this again just because I've read several different methods. I did it according to my cam instructions, tightening until there is zero clearance, and then a half turn more. I want to check it by turning the pushrod method.

Then of course I reassembled the car, and filled all of the fluids.

I had some ignition problems at first, due to a couple of problems, beginning with the distributor being 180* backwards. I had a couple of mistakes--the type that happen when you're unfamiliar and you take 3 weeks to complete a project.

After removing the distributor, I had to turn the pump shaft. It looked like rotor was lined up with cylinder #1.
(more on this later)

After fixing the ignition problem, the car fired once, but never started. I had no fuel then. I ran the car for about 30 seconds on fuel I poured in the carb, and still no fuel. I finally cranked the car with the fuel line disconnected at the carb, guess what....I had fuel.

Now the car finally fired and started. I didn't crank it for more than 3 to 4 seconds at a time. After making sure there were no leaks, I put the timing gun to it. I couldn't even see the mark.


I had to turn the distributor all of the way to the passengers side, and was still at about 8*, which of course is fine, but that's a little off for the distributor positioning. (That's where the oil pump shaft turning comes in)

After getting the timing at 8*, it ran ok, but still very loud, for the next few minutes. Then it started to really heat up. Almost all of the way up. The fan didn't kick on, so I ripped the wire going to the passengers side sending unit and grounded it. Fan kick on and the temp dropped and stablized, but still at just over 220*...OUCH!!

It was hot but steady, so I poured in about another gallon of water!!!!

My 30 minutes were up and I could see a coolant leak starting at the thermostat housing, so I tried to see if it would idle...no luck.

So my questions are:

Was the temp so high because the radiator was so low after the thermostat opened up?

If I readjust the oil pump shaft, time the engine and fix the leak, should there be anything else that I need to do, except change my oil at 500 miles or so and prime the power steering pump?

I want this to be a successful swap and have tried to take care so far.

 

Gruve,

I'm guessing that you installed a flat tappet cam, thus the break-in lube. Running in a new cam will generate a lot of heat. The engine oil tries to carry away the heat, but the lack of air flow makes oil cooling difficult, so much of the heat transfers to the exhaust and colling system.

The fact that the cooling system was not full could also create some of the heating problems. I am in the habit of starting with the radiator cap off the engine after a build, to allow the system to be topped off and to prevent pressure build in the system. (I like to allow the gaskets to go through a couple of heat/cool cycles before letting the cooling system make presure.) The low level in the system could also be a reason the fan did not start right away - the sensor might not have been hot enough.

Re-time the engine, and adjust the oil pump drive to wherever it needs to be to allow the distributor to seat properly. Top off the fluids again, repair the water outlet leak, and restart. Since you have already run in the new cam, you can allow the engine to idle high and adjust the fuel, idle position, and timing as necessary. Try running with the radiator cap off for a while. Some of the coolant may purge back out when the thermostat opens, but you can refill later. Once you get the engine to idle and rum well enough on its own, you might want to consider changine the oil and filter one more time. If the oil was allowed to overheat significantly and start to break down, you may not have adequate lubrication. Use mineral oil for the first 500 miles unless you have installed no-break-in rings, in which case you can use mineral or synthetic.

I'm not sure what year/model you have, so there may be other items to check before you're finished. Is this a carbed L03 or L69, and is the carb an E4ME?

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Later,
Vader
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"I'm'a do Things My Way - It's My way or the Highway."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

It's a carbed L69, in an 84Z. I am going to swap out the stock CC carb for a Holley 4011 that I picked up. I also will have the headers added once I get it running well enough to take it down to the exhaust shop.

I also added a Weiand 8004 Intake and have an HEI Vac Advance distributor with an advance curve kit in it. I will probably keep the heads stock.

Thanks again,

GruveB

 

Gruve,

Sounds pretty straightforward. Some carb adjustment, timing adjustment, and cooling should get you running again.

As for the carb to be added, isn't the 4011 a 450 SCFM mechanical secondary, or am I totally screwed up on my Holley numbers? (Wouldn't be the first time today that I was totally screwed up.) A mechanical might be a little tricky to get set up, especially with the Weiand and extra cam lift/duration on the smaller engine.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"I'm'a do Things My Way - It's My way or the Highway."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

When I start with a dry coolant system, I leave the upper hose off of the thermostat housing (have it installed on the rad. end)and insert a small screwdriver into the thermostat (opening it a little) and fill the radiator until the coolant/water comes out the thermostat housing. Install hose and top off. You won't have to worry about having an air pocket that way.

Just my 2 cents.

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ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

R.I.P. #3
My favorite quote about D.E. "He can see air"

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited March 12, 2001).]

 

Vader,

The carb is a 650 CFM double pumper with mechanical secondaries, squarebore pattern and is supposed to provide superior throttle response. I practically stole it, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

It maybe that I wrote out the wrong number, but I think it was a 4011.

I'll double check.

 

To carry engineboy's tip to a different level...

The old-timers use an aspirin tablet for that: pry the stat open, stick the aspirin in it, install it, and go. It dissolves harmlessly away while allowing the air to bleed out of the system.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

I like that one RB, I'll have to give it a try.



------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

R.I.P. #3
My favorite quote about D.E. "He can see air"

 

You said you had a HEI dist. w/vaccum advance hook up. Does it have a spot to hook your computer up to. I am asking this because I bought the Accel on w/o the computer hook up. This caused major problems w/ the stock cc carb. I was getting 10 mpg w/ this set up, obvisouly something was wrong. Some on the carburetor board told me w/ a cc carb. and the computer not being hooked up to the dist. that I was running richer than rich and gas was just being dumped into the carb. I went on to buy an Edelbrock carb. Just a word of advice hurry and put on that Holley.

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'86 IROC
T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK TES HEADERS
FLOWMASTER
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
UNDERDRIVE PULLEY
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
2:73 GEARS

 

No prob, engineboy! I've learned a few good ones from you, so I guess it's payback time.

Mark, the computerized carb/dist package is just that, a package. You CANNOT run a non-computerized one and not the other, or either without the computer, and expect optimum results. The computer is expecting to see certain things from the distributor (like pulses indicating that it's turning and at what speed) and from the carb (like the ability to alter the O2 sensor reading). If it doesn't have what it needs from either of those places, it goes into "sulk" mode, does totally unpredictable things, and causes the engine not to run right.

The worst possible gas mileage situation is a CC carb without the computer. The mixture control solenoid's "rest" position is full rich, so that's what you get: power enrichment setting all the time, even at idle, high-speed cruise, etc. The next worst is the CC dist without the computer; the dist has no vaccum and no centrifugal advance, so the timing stays at whatever the static is set to, instead of being 30° or so advanced from there under cruise conditions like it should be. Other permutations of mis-matched parts produce similarly undesirable results as well.

It's an all-or-nothing deal. Either make the decision to do away with all of it, or take the time to make it work for you. You can't do it halfway.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Mark,

What RB said is dead on. Mileage aside, if you have to choose an evil, running a cc carb with hei vac distributor will run pretty good, rich, but good. A non-cc carb with a computer distributor is useless. No advance!!!

Hope that helps.

 

I know all of what you guys said, I just learned this as of 2 weeks ago. I am doing the all or nothing thing. I have non cc dist. and carb. It just sounded like the guy was running a non cc dist. w/ a cc carb. I was just trying to tell him to put a non cc carb on.

------------------
'86 IROC
T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK TES HEADERS
FLOWMASTER
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
UNDERDRIVE PULLEY
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
2:73 GEARS

 

Update:

For those who want to use my mistakes as a learning point or laughing point, I also had the rocker arms too tight. Started up just fine now!!

Even after getting the distributor dead on, it still didn't like to start, and sounded a little "funny", backfired quite a bit and the plugs were obviously not firing, at least most of them weren't.

Now it starts right up, no problem. At least it did tonight.

 

Glad to hear it.

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

R.I.P. #3
My favorite quote about D.E. "He can see air"