OK so I have the 3.8 Turbo engine. I am restoring the car from a wreck. So the car hasn't been started in 3 years( I just got the car 2 weeks ago). SO anyways I change the oil (5w30 plan on changing the oil again after about 30 min of run time to clean anything out that might have built up in the engine) with some stop leak to swell the gaskets incase they would want to start leaking. and plugs to the proper AC delcos. Checked everything else and it was fine. Put some gas stabilizer in the tank to treat what appeared to be about 4 to 5 gallons from the fuel gage. put 5 gallons more of Premium 93 octane with a little more stabil in it(enough to treat one gallon) incase I was wrong in my assuption and there was more old gas in the tank.
Ok so now I tunr the key allow the fuel pump to build up pressure then start it. Rpms go up to about 2500 then fall off slowly to about 1000 - 1100. Runs for about 1 or 2 minutes starts smoking under the hood so I shut it off to investigate. Seems I spilled a little oil on the headers. No big problem so I let it all cool off and do a few other things around the house for a bit.
Now here comes the problem start it up again and it does the same stuff again 2500 rpms for about 5 sec then drops starts to smoke off the headers again, no big deal, but I want to get it out of the garage so I can clean everything up and put it away for the night after letting it run for about 15 minutes. I drop in in reverse and it sputters a minute and dies. What the hell is going on. Is there something else I should do? The transmission fluid appears to be brabd new. Any Ideas?

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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

after sitting for 3 years i'd start looking at the vacuum hoses, filters, or any thing that might break down over the years.

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ICON Motorsports

1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

I didn't hear anything like a vacume leak and I didn't visually see anything either. I will look tomorrow when the sun is out and I have better lighting. Though I don't think that is it form some reason. Though it is a good idea to rechenk what I can see. A
Any other ideas?

 

Obviously, the engine dies under load, so check the IAC, TB, intake parts, fuel filter, etc...you'll find your problem.

 

I agree with dhirocz....check the IAC and the TPS!! The EGR could be sticking after sitting that long too!! Also, might wanna have the module checked after sitting that long....could be the module crapping out under load, it happens!!

 

Kyle,

Congratulations on the acquisition of the TTA. I've heard that the TTAs are very sensitive to the MAP signal, so checking your vacuum hoses very carefully as Ed suggested is highly advised, even if you don't hear a leak.

The StaBil really doesn't do much for the fuel after the fact. The additive should have been used before the car was stored. Your best bet now would probably be copious amounts of ethanol and some filters. Some small amount of kerosene (diesel fuel) might also help keep the injectors from sticking due to injesting any water from droplets that may have condensed in the fuel tank.

You should also clean the intake, throttle body, and air control. Expect that the oxygen sensor(s) won't function very well until you get some good heating in the exhaust to burn them clean, so the mixture might not be very accurate until then.

I will be interesting to monitor your progress. Getting one of the last few TTAs is no small feat.

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Later,
Vader
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"What a Day..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Hey Vader, I will be the LAST one to correct you... but I believe the TTA was a MAF car....

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Kevin Irving
85 Trans Am WS-6, 305 TPI, custom burned '86 PROM with '87 "165"ECM, Accel Supercoil & 8.8 Wires, MSD 6AL, Aluminum Driveshaft, Wonderbar, TB Coolant Bypass, Ported Plenum, Modified MAF, Syclone Fuel Pump, JET Airfoil

15.556 @ 86.65mph, Nov 10, 2000.... I know it sucks.. but it will get better!

http://www.geocities.com/transam85tpi/

Member - The Tidewater Trans Am Club, Norfolk VA http://www.geocities.com/ttacva/

[This message has been edited by Kevin Irving (edited April 15, 2001).]

 

Glad to see it runnung, I would check the Throttle Body and clean with some cleaner. IAC could need cleaned.


Give it a chance to get warm a few times before you pass too much judgement.


Brian

 

Kevin,

Yes, I know. That's why there is a translator for the GN and TTA Buick engines with the digital MAF. But from what little I understand of the TTA control scheme, it also has a 2 BAR MAP due to the boost (similar control scheme to the '93 LT1). The ECM also measures MAP to anticipate acceleration in this scheme. I've never been under the hood of a TTA long enough to dig into the control. but I'm piecing together what data I can find on it. I do know that the '86-'89 TTAs were SFI, not batch-fired.

If I'm mistaken, forget the MAP theory.

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Later,
Vader
------------------
"What a Day..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited April 15, 2001).]

 

hey kyle if for some odd reason u want to seperate the motor and sell it, ill buy it off u, need one of those turboed 3.8 for my 87' camaro project. Name your price.

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92' camaro
New 305 block TPI conversion, Flat top pistons,Bore over .30 Forged parts all around,Edelbrock intake,ported plennum,ported corvette alluminum heads, accel cam,52mm throttle bodie, SLP runners Home aid cold air induction, Air foil,ford SVO 19lb injectors,fuel regulator,cloys timing chain, comp alluminum roller rocker arms and pushrods MSD 8.5 mm wires, bosch plattinum plugs, hypertech cap & rotor and coil, Edelbrock TES headers, free flowing catalytic converter and a 3 inch force II flowmaster exhaust system, and a 3 inch cutout,Zoom multi friction clutch, T-5 tranny,billenstien shocks&struts.
Soon to come!!!
Procharger system 12lbs o boost.
New paint job(hawaiin orchid purple)Cast alluminum ZR1 rims w/ 275 tires.
Favorite quote: "where ever u go, there u are"

Other car;
1971 plymouth Duster
Mods:340,edelbrock victor jr. intake, 650 4 barrel holley, heddman headers,40 series dual flowmasters, cold air intake,4:10 gears, just got a new paint job and cragar rims with 315 tires in the back.
:Yeah its not a chevy but damn how many 71' dusters have u seen in the streets.

 

My mistake.... thanks for clearing that up for me. I had never heard of a thirdgen with MAP and MAF until now....

 

Kevin,

Don't take my word on this one. I'm only going on what little information I have on the TTAs, and there might have been some differences in the couple of years they were made.

On top of that, the MAP guess was only a guess. It might be something completely unrelated. All I know is that the 1227148 ECM was able to support both a digital MAF and MAP sensor.

Also, I screwed up on the "86-'89 TTA" statement. I should have said "86-'89 231 Turbos", like those that were in the GN and TTA. The TTA was not offered in 1986, and the original statement wasn't clear on that.

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Later,
Vader
------------------
"What a Day..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Guys there is what appears to be a Map sensor mounted up on The A/C housing on the Firewall and a MAF on the car. This I know for certain.

Sperating the Engine and the car. I don't think there is a price for that sorry. Because with out it I am loosing the whole reason I bought this car. Though everyone has their price, make me an offer I can't refuse.

 

Kyle, flip me your VIN# and I can see what sensors Diacom has for your engine. This will resolve whether it has both MAP and MAF or just MAF. The MAP sensor may have a limited effect on the engine.

The TTA is such a rare and unique car that a lot is not commonly known about it.

I do agree that if you can "rescue" the car, you should make all efforts to do that. Worst case scenerio, if you do have to separate them, I would keep the engine for a future project car.

Another possibility that you may be facing is that the engine has sat for so long that it may need to be "worked" a bit to loosen it up. Right now, it may be on the verge of being "stuck" (note I do not say siezed). A friend of mine had an engine that sat for a few years, and he had to tear it down because it sat too long and did sieze.

I hope you can save this car too, but the cool thing is that 3.8s are a dime a dozen at wrecking yards. I would just rebolt everything (turbo etc) on to a donor 3.8 and rescue it if at all possible.

Good luck with your project.

 

Kyle, great project i love those engines.
I agree that not a lot is commonly known about the engines but if you can get it running you will have a great car.

[This message has been edited by mattsamazing (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

Glenn The 3.8 is not a dime a dozen. The 89 TTA has special Heads first off, special pistons(8:1 compression) and a special cross drilled crank to all handle the power this car can produce.
I would send you my Vin # but I don't have it on me at school, sorry.

The engine is not near being stuck it started very easily and had no problem ideling.(read opening post) It is only when I put it into gear.

The Car is in grat shape. The interior is in excellent condition except for the Door panels which may just need a good cleaing. The body is perfect just needs all the decorations put on and the Wing needs to be repainted.

 

The TTA has a 3 Bar Map Sensor. The only function this provides is for the Boost Gauge. The GN has a 2 Bar Map Sensor which is only used for the Boost gauge as well.

Sounds like it could be a Maf Sensor. The Problem is that they do not make them anymore and the Rebuilt ones from your local parts store do NOT work.

The solution is a Maf Translator that will plug into the stock Wiring and allow you to run a 3 or 3.5inch LS1 Maf Sensor.

Pull down the ECM under the passenger side of the dash and pull the chip out and tell me what it says.

The Stock Chip is absolutly horrible.

You would have alot better luck posting on www.turbobuick.com

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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.25@121.25
Daily Driver

1998 Trans-Am LS1 6 Speed
13.10@106
Slow POS sitting in the Driveway awaiting repairs and then its For Sale. No More V8 Cars for me.

[This message has been edited by TTA (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

Different Block, Crank, Rods, Pistons etc etc etc... Not even close.

We All Wish These Blocks are getting hard to find.

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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.25@121.25
Daily Driver

1998 Trans-Am LS1 6 Speed
13.10@106
Slow POS sitting in the Driveway awaiting repairs and then its For Sale. No More V8 Cars for me.

 

I guess that explains why this guy I use to see with a GN went to an SBC when he blew his 3.8 Turbo.

Bummer. Never realized how hard the parts are to get. You could reuse the heads, then the only problem would be the short block. What do the SC versions use? Are they potential candidates for a replacement short block? Just curious.

 

No, its a Series II motor. It would be like an L98 to an LT1.

The Parts are out there, they are just getting scarce.

There is a Block Project going on right now, they are trying to remake the Blocks only in Aluminum to keep the Buicks alive.

There have been some people defecting over to Turbo SBC just for the reason of no parts.


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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.25@121.25
Daily Driver

1998 Trans-Am LS1 6 Speed
13.10@106
Slow POS sitting in the Driveway awaiting repairs and then its For Sale. No More V8 Cars for me.

 

TTA, Are you sure tha MAF is bad, can I get codes from the computer on this one? I am sure its the stock chip, but I will be gettting the car runnning and inspected before I worry about the chip. I was thinking maybe it just need to run a little while longer before I put it into gear. Oh well if it is the MAF I need to get a LS1 MAF and a translator. OK where do I get this stuff from.

 

Of course Im not sure its the Maf. You really need to join www.turbobuick.com and start reading and asking questions.

Your basically driving a Grand National not a 3rd Gen T/A. Nothing from a TPI V8 car is even close to the same on these cars. Its all different as far as tuning and troubleshooting goes.

If you dont know what your doing, you'll probably blow the headgaskets pretty quick or do something worse.

I doubt it will throw a code, not many do when something goes wrong.

Will the car start a run in Park? If it does try taping the MAF and see if the car stumbles. If it does, your Maf is toast.

There are alot of GN guys in your Area, Im sure someone would be willing to come over and help you out.

There are a few places to get a Translator and LS1 Maf if thats what you need. THe Buicks have there own Vendors. Places like Summit and Jegs are basically Useless.


Try www.gnttype.org and this has ALOT of info about how to diagnose and mod your motor.

Good Luck. Please dont blow it up

Get it running and Ill give you a little recipe that will put the car into the 11s for $1000 bucks.




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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.25@121.25
Daily Driver

1998 Trans-Am LS1 6 Speed
13.10@106
Slow POS sitting in the Driveway awaiting repairs and then its For Sale. No More V8 Cars for me.

 

Then again, if you want a quick answer over the phone, the one guy I would have you call who is an EXPERT with that engine is Frank Baber in Portsmouth, VA at Performance Buick Pontiac. He can answer ANY question about the GN or TTA... the guy can build those motors in his sleep. Give him a call at 757-488-3500 (his work #). You won't be disappointed, I guarantee it. Super nice guy and unless he's really busy with someone else's car at the time, will answer any questions you have.