Hey Guys,

I have always wanted a 3rd Gen Camaro and have finally decided to buy one. I like the style of the IROC the best. I know a fair bit about motors and have lots of friends that are mechanics so I plan on getting one and fixing it all up. But here are my questions...

1. What is the best year to buy? Are there any years that are best to avoid?

2. What is better, fuel injected or carberated. I plan on doing a lot of mods to the motor.

3. I have been looking at one with a 350 engine that needs to be rebuilt. Would boring it out be worth while? How much should I bore it out?

4. If I buy one without a motor, what motor should I put in it?

5. Whats a good price to pay for a used motor that needs to be rebuilt?

6. What would be better 305 w/5 speed or 350 w/auto, i can drive standard fine. I was thinking to get a 350 w/auto and then eventually put the 6 speed conversion in it.

7. Is the stereo the normal sized or is the big double din ones?

8. Are there any disadvantages to T-Tops other then they might leak?

9. If you know of any good websites with tips on doing motor mods please post them.

Sorry about all of the questions Thanks for any help

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Mike Tennyson
1997 Cavalier Z22
Soon to have an IROC!

 

1) No real bad years, later years had improvements for factory suspension/engine/etc. For instance '82 offered a max of about 150HP and a terrible transmission selection. Still all parts swap to speak of, so an '92 suspension and transmission can bolt right on an '82. Overall best factory packages came in about 1988.

2) Fuel injection performs better in factory condition. All factory systems are complicated, expensive, and restrictive. If you tune the carb well the most you will lose is a tiny bit of bottom end torque. Carbs are much cheaper since $350 will give you enough manifold and carb to feed 500HP. The same money would just cover a good set of injectors not counting the whole rest of the system. Chances are you will end up with a factory fuel injected car and switch back to a Holley or Carter carb.

3) Boreing out is important, it gives you a good clean cylinder wall for you new rings and pistons. Throwing a new set of rings on a worn wall will only last a short while before you lose compression again. Overbore as little as you can get away with and still get new pistons/rings for it and eliminate all wear. .030" over is pretty standard, but try to go 0.010" or 0.020" over if your machine shop gives you the ok on it and you can find the parts you need. Overboring for any purpose other than wear and tear is a bad idea for a street motor.

4) 350/383/400 are your best bets. 383's have gotten real popular. 400's are hard to come by and tend to cost more. Personally I am not fond of 383's, particularly cast crank 383's. Since this seems to be new to you I won't go in to the nitty gritty details as to why. Instead, if a good 383 comes your way take it and don't worry about it. A 350 is a very cheap engine but still a very good engine. They have engines now from 250HP to 500HP with warranties and ready to fire up. If you don't want to get in to engine building I recommend a GM crate engine. You can go to AC Delco's web site and get an idea of what crate engines are out there. Then search around for the GM part number to get an idea of the price range for it.

5) Depends alot on what it is and what shape its in. An all original 1970 400 with 5k miles would probably cost more than $500, while a well overbored smogger 350 would go for $100. On average I would say about $200 for your junkyard type motor that needs rebuild but is nothing special or bad.

6) 350 w/auto. 305 is a descent engine but its small bore gives it some problems when you start trying to beef it up. The cost of building a 305 compared to a 350 is virtually the same, but 45CI makes a difference in power. Also, the 5 speeds even in the later years are no prize. 6-speeds are expensive, don't plan on one till you price out one. The '88 and later 700R4's are descent enough to take a little warming up on the engine without coming apart.

7) Far as I know all the radios are a big tall/fat one. Doesn't seem to be anything normal about this size outside of GM. Using adapters I don't see why you couldn't slap in any radio you can think of.

Forgot 7 & 8.

7) T-tops weaken the body, in a bad place. Subframe connectors are more important with T-tops. The are terrible about leaking. Its best if you skip T-tops but if you really want them and can put up with the leaking the rest can be worked around.

8)Can't think of any good sites off hand. There are a few good books out there. Stop by a good book store with an auto selection and look around. I value understanding over a "combination" or "mod" since they tend to flop. All someone has to do is port the heck out of a set of heads or leave out an important detail and all the power is lost when you repeat it.

Hope all this helps. Oh well, if it doesn't then its just a few minutes wasted.


[This message has been edited by Grand Prix (edited June 27, 2001).]

 

Thanks! It helps a lot! I have been looking around for about a week now for a camaro in my price range but I have not found one that is what I want, I am going to be really picky because I plan on keeping the car forever and doing a lot of work to it. I have one more question...

11. Would i be better off spending $1500 on a IROC with a weak motor OR spending $4000 on one with a good motor and low miles

I figure for the price difference that I would be further ahead getting one and fixing it up since the labour will cost me next to nothing.

The 6M is something that I wouldnt do for a few years, but at least the option is there. I am leaning towards getting a 350. ok one more question

12. In reading some other posts I have read that once you get to high HP you have to do suspension and frame mods or else the frame will twist and the t-tops wont fit back in... If I get one without t-tops will the frame still twist? Or is it stronger do to the fact that there is no t-tops

 

also guys, dont worry about answering all my questions, there is to many of them lol, evne just answering one or two would be really really helpful

 

I like to throw out some info and that will give you something to think about now. Then other people can argue over how I said things or what they have different ideas about.

11) Thats a personal choice. $2500 will buy a descent brand new engine. Also depends on how far you want to go in your power levels. If you want to push out 300HP-350HP then you can start with a good condition stock engine. Beyond this and you really should start using better parts and blueprinting the engine to prevent mishaps. Labor is next to nothing but be careful on the rest of the car. Engine work is one thing, but if $2500 also means the body will be a little rough and the interior will be old is another. Parts to restore an entire car add up. So pay attention to the car's overall condition. Probably would be best for you to shop for the best bodys and then decide if one is a better deal than the other based on the engine and price.

12) The f-body suspension is wonderfully advanced. Cars have ran well in to the 10 second area with just minor suspension work. That is IF you leave it all basically stock, just switching in urathane bushings and reinforcing the parts. Lower the car or something and all GM's work is hosed. Frame mods, if you twist it bad enough for the T-tops to not fit in anymore the car will not drive right. You can easily twist it hard enough for them not to seal right anymore. Solid roof cars still twist, just not as much. The roof is important to the car's strength, cutting big holes in it weakens it. Sub-frame connectors are not expensive and will give you extra strength. They are just a good idea for basically stock T-top cars. Usually you can get away with 300-400HP without them in a standard body.

OK, my keyboard is on fire so I'm turning in for the night to let it cool. Have fun.

 

I think Grandprix summed it up pretty well.

I might add that unless you get a real sweet deal on a car missing a motor, just pass on by. You'll also more than likely have to track down all the accessory bracket and accessories, wirng harness, etc...many things could be missing that you're not aware of, unless you know the car well and can spot them.

As far as buying a $1500.00 dollar car vs a $4000.00, I'd have to see tham before offering an opinion, but generally it's best to buy the best you can afford, with the lowest miles possible. More than just a motor wears out with miles...suspension, etc.. can all cost some buck to get straightened out.

But maybe for you, the $1500.00 car is the one you want, if you plan on modifying it and upgrading everything.

 

well my step-father owns a body shop, so painting and body work is done at cost... so I think i am going to try and find one with a motor still in it that just needs rebuilding and concern myself mainly with finding one wiht a good frame that isnt rusted to ****

 

If you really want a manual trans, get a car that already has one. Swapping a motor into a manual trans car, is a lot easier that swapping a trans.

 

One that already has a 6M would be pretty hard to find and I have read that the 5 speed cant handle the torque of the 350

 

Hey guys, how much do think a 89 iroc with a 350 would be worth? its stock with 120,000km on it. The 350 runs like ****, the guy said he didnt know what was wrong with it. The body has a fair bit of rust as well. The frame is straight though. He is asking $3000cdn, does this sound like a good deal?

 

Dude seriously get some quotes on rust repair from a reputable shop before you buy a rusty thirdgen. I just pulled the carpet on mine and was not happy with what I saw. If you plan to keep the car "forever" as you said, I'd get something as close to rust free as you can. Good luck!

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"Life is pain! Anyone who says differently is selling something."