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I've got the worst news, my engine is ruined!

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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 12:39 PM
  #1  
WhiteHawk's Avatar
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From: Detroit, MI
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 350,Dart Heads,Weiand In,Roller Cam
Transmission: 2400-Stall, 700R4 w/ Kit
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 3.42 disc (I wish)
I've got the worst news, my engine is ruined!

I actually see it as an excuse to build a lot better engine. Either a head gasket blew or my one cylinder wall is leaking (had a tiny pit in it) but the engine oil is green milk. I am going to have to replace all the bearings, cam, gears, etc. Expensive, but I got a new job and live in Michigan, so I got 7 months until spring.

Maybe a new block
Forged bottom
Lets rock and roll!
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 02:29 PM
  #2  
wesilva's Avatar
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Car: 1966 El Camino Custom
Engine: 350
Transmission: 200R4
Axle/Gears: 3:73 12 bolt with Brute Strength
I feel for you. I also just lost the bottom end of my IROC. Raced a WRX (kicked his butt) and pulled into the Costco gas pump for gas. The car was smoking a little but oil pressure was a robust 30lbs at idle. After filling, I exited out slowly and Clunk !! Something went....probably a main web. No rod knocking, no overheating, no oil pressure drop...just boom. I tried to turn it over but it wouldn't. Shifted fine. Clutch works fine. This happened just minutes ago so I haven't given it a good inspection yet but it sounds terminal.
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 02:45 PM
  #3  
mdricken's Avatar
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From: Marion, Iowa
Car: 92 Camaro
Engine: ZZ4 Crate Engine w/Hot Cam
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 with Transgo and MW 3
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Eaton Posi
Originally posted by wesilva
I also just lost the bottom end of my IROC. Raced a WRX (kicked his butt)
.... an honerable death IMO
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 02:53 PM
  #4  
88TATBI5.7's Avatar
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From: Ct valley
Car: 88 TA
Engine: TBI 5.7
Transmission: 700R4
pull the head you might only have to do a head job. if you want to know witch cylinder is leaking do a leakdown test. anyway good luck
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 02:54 PM
  #5  
ede's Avatar
ede
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From: Jackson County
from what you said you have no idea what the problem is nor the condition of your engine
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 07:05 PM
  #6  
WhiteHawk's Avatar
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From: Detroit, MI
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 350,Dart Heads,Weiand In,Roller Cam
Transmission: 2400-Stall, 700R4 w/ Kit
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 3.42 disc (I wish)
I am sure you could fix it, if it were a head gasket and change the oil, but I really need to put better rods in it if I want this engine to roll 6000 RPMs without an extreme catastrophie. The 400 hundred crank should be okay, then just get 6 in H-beams and light pistons.

A guy at my work is trying to get me to build a sweet engine, one that screams. I told him before I wanted a short stroke screamer, and he thinks this is the perfect time for it. 400 block, shim a 3.25 crank in it, winston cup pistons (hes got the hook up), and some sweet rods. You can probably pull 8000 RPMs. It is actually a 350 CI engine, except it gets its displacement from an extra 1000 RPMs and 2.15 in valves. Only down side is....$$$

With my heads now and that 400 block combo, desktop dyno says 550 hp w/ 11.50:1 compression naturally aspirated. Sounds real sweet.
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 08:20 PM
  #7  
ME Leigh's Avatar
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From: Valley of the Sun
Car: 82 Z28
Engine: Al LT1 headed LG4 305
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi with spacer
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
With my heads now and that 400 block combo, desktop dyno says 550 hp w/ 11.50:1 compression naturally aspirated. Sounds real sweet.
Whats it say in DD if you use a 3.75" crank?
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 08:26 PM
  #8  
84z28350's Avatar
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From: Yellowknife, NWT, Canada
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: TH-350C
Axle/Gears: 3.43
OK you got me there, how does an engine gain displacement by higher rpms and valves?? lmao!
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Old Sep 14, 2005 | 11:23 PM
  #9  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Car: 1966 El Camino Custom
Engine: 350
Transmission: 200R4
Axle/Gears: 3:73 12 bolt with Brute Strength
White Hawk,
Get that oil drained NOW if you haven't already. Antifreeze can corrode bearings pretty quick.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 12:08 AM
  #10  
WhiteHawk's Avatar
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From: Detroit, MI
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 350,Dart Heads,Weiand In,Roller Cam
Transmission: 2400-Stall, 700R4 w/ Kit
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 3.42 disc (I wish)
Originally posted by 84z28350
OK you got me there, how does an engine gain displacement by higher rpms and valves?? lmao!
It means that you can displace more air. Engines are big air pumps, a pump running faster with bigger ports will flow more air at the same displacement as a pump running slower with smaller ports. Mustang 302s (302!) have power because they can really spin up.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 12:11 AM
  #11  
WhiteHawk's Avatar
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From: Detroit, MI
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 350,Dart Heads,Weiand In,Roller Cam
Transmission: 2400-Stall, 700R4 w/ Kit
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 3.42 disc (I wish)
Originally posted by wesilva
White Hawk,
Get that oil drained NOW if you haven't already. Antifreeze can corrode bearings pretty quick.
I have no hope in saving this engine or its bearings. Although I plan on drainin the coolant and oil, then flush it with new oil so I dont started corroding my crank. I am taking the engine out the week after next (vacation). In the mean time I am going to rebuild one of my 305s real quick. Figure put some 350 heads on and spray 125 hp shot WEEHAA!
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 12:33 AM
  #12  
ME Leigh's Avatar
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From: Valley of the Sun
Car: 82 Z28
Engine: Al LT1 headed LG4 305
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi with spacer
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
It means that you can displace more air. Engines are big air pumps, a pump running faster with bigger ports will flow more air at the same displacement as a pump running slower with smaller ports. Mustang 302s (302!) have power because they can really spin up.
But if you spin a larger motor just as fast, as a smaller motor it will make even more power.

So why can't you spin a larger motor just as fast? You can!

Better yet spin a larger motor slower to save the valvetrain and make just as much power.

Last edited by ME Leigh; Sep 15, 2005 at 12:38 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 01:13 AM
  #13  
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From: Yellowknife, NWT, Canada
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: TH-350C
Axle/Gears: 3.43
Ok then i guess my 350 is a 360 @ 4000rpm and a 383 @ 6500rpm...

I dont know about you but i stick with the normal way of measuring cubes.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 01:18 AM
  #14  
ME Leigh's Avatar
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From: Valley of the Sun
Car: 82 Z28
Engine: Al LT1 headed LG4 305
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi with spacer
He's just using a time based mass (volume) flow rate, rather than a true volume based upon 1/2 a revolution. Its just a different way of measuring.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 04:27 AM
  #15  
ede's Avatar
ede
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From: Jackson County
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
I am sure you could fix it, if it were a head gasket and change the oil, but I really need to put better rods in it if I want this engine to roll 6000 RPMs without an extreme catastrophie. The 400 hundred crank should be okay, then just get 6 in H-beams and light pistons.

A guy at my work is trying to get me to build a sweet engine, one that screams. I told him before I wanted a short stroke screamer, and he thinks this is the perfect time for it. 400 block, shim a 3.25 crank in it, winston cup pistons (hes got the hook up), and some sweet rods. You can probably pull 8000 RPMs. It is actually a 350 CI engine, except it gets its displacement from an extra 1000 RPMs and 2.15 in valves. Only down side is....$$$

With my heads now and that 400 block combo, desktop dyno says 550 hp w/ 11.50:1 compression naturally aspirated. Sounds real sweet.
damn if that isn't one of the "smarter" things i've ever read on here. so if you only spin it to say 6000 rpm what would you have a 327? you're a fool if you think less is better and rpm equates to less parts failure and more power, as well as more displacement.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 10:29 AM
  #16  
WhiteHawk's Avatar
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 290
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From: Detroit, MI
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 350,Dart Heads,Weiand In,Roller Cam
Transmission: 2400-Stall, 700R4 w/ Kit
Axle/Gears: 4th Gen 3.42 disc (I wish)
Originally posted by ede
damn if that isn't one of the "smarter" things i've ever read on here. so if you only spin it to say 6000 rpm what would you have a 327? you're a fool if you think less is better and rpm equates to less parts failure and more power, as well as more displacement.
For the fool remark(I think u called me), a stock 350 has a 3.48 stroke, that 400 has a 3.25 stroke, both same CID. That much shorter stroke allows almost 1000 more RPMs staying in the safe zone. There are formulas for pistons speed, you can calculate them via stroke @ RPM. I was also saying a huge benefit is you can put in 2.15 valves, 2.08 are max for 4in bores (.52xbore=intake max).

About the displacement confusion....How do you think a 4 banger can make V8 hp, forced induction, forced displacement. The guys on here with twin turbos are making BIG block horsepower with their little small blocks.

Turbo = Displacement
NOS = Displacement
Superchargers = Displacement
Displacement = More potential for A/F
More A/F= More Power


Heres a 4.00 bore x 3.48 stroke with maxed valves 7000 RPM Redline


Heres the same thing but 4.125 bore x 3.25 stroke with maxed valves 7800 RPM Redline


Last edited by WhiteHawk; Sep 15, 2005 at 10:55 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 11:22 AM
  #17  
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From: Yellowknife, NWT, Canada
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: TH-350C
Axle/Gears: 3.43
Ok we get the idea of what your talking about but who the hell measures like that??

Im yet to see a r!ce rocket with a 4 banger and the guy say with the turbo its a 5L... or anybody with a blower or turbo saying that.

Last edited by 84z28350; Sep 15, 2005 at 11:53 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 11:33 AM
  #18  
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From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
The thing that determines the engines ability to make power is its ability to pump air through itself. You can have both a higher revving 327 and a low revving 400 that only make 200 HP. The torque curves will be radically different but theyll both still be gutless. Im bumming a late model corolla off of someone with a VVT 4 cyl or whatever those are and that things a high revver, but it still doesnt make any power at all, because it has four thimble sized pistons in it.

In a big, heavy car like a thirdgen, id lean towards having 350+ CI of displacement to help get all that sheetmetal moving. Theres nothing worse then a car with no low end pickup. Me personally, Id like a 400 with a relatively mild cam and good high end heads on it. It wont rev real high so there wont be as many bottom end or valve train issues to deal with and itll still belt out alot of power.

Remember, its airflow, not revs that determine power output. The stroke will really only have a large effect on the torque curve.
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