wkdformula89

Heres my situation...
I have about $4000 and a 1989 Formula 350 with:

L98 engine w/ 82000 miles
Stock LS1 28lbs (26.5lbs in my application)
Magnaflow 3.5 inch exhaust
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
700r4 automatic trans

I havent done anything to the suspension.

What would be the best combonation or suspension parts, intake, heads, cam, headers etc that you;d recommend for around $4000 (or 5-6gs, i live at home and go to college so my income is mostly for my spending and saving a 1000$ or so can easily be done in 2 weeks)

I would LOVE to be in the 13s...
all of my buddies have LS1's and really lay it on me about how much faster and better they are blah blah blah. I'm in love w/ the thirdgen design and i really like the look, more so than the new t/a's and camaros so i'd rather mod mine to be faster rather than get a whole new car

***FORGOT TO MENTION, I live in California and emmissions are of concern for me. I just had my car smogged last week and it did great, i'd like to keep it legal!***

SaintedCorrupt

if you wanna spend all that cash on the motor, GM sells the ZZ383 for around $4500. Makes 425hp and 460 lb-ft, and knowing GM is probably just a cam and rocker swap away from 500 horses. gauranteed to kick LS1 ****. Also, a brand new motor built by the designers of the small block will probably be pretty emissions compliant. no hard evidence, just my .


edit: spelling

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

emissions legal headers, the SLP 1 3/4" headers with AIR tubes. get a bigger stall. get some runners and a base, or port your own. do rear end gears as well. that should wake the car up considerably. and when in doubt do a cam, port and polish the heads, and some nitrous and you'll do just fine.

12SecondTA

keeping smog legal is a harder problem then most will admit.

My suggestions are since you have tpi, and currently running EFI, stay EFI with a $4k budget. Get a set of vortec heads, get them machined for large lift and everything inbetween. Either get a vortec baseplate and continue to use TPI(the worst idea ever), or get a Holley Stealth Ram, $550 for the setup at thunderracing.com . This setup is a great intake and will be able to fuel a 12 second car easily. With Vortec heads its an entirely different story.

I'd suggest larger injectors or higher fuel pressure. 24# injectors are 2# larger then stock but trust me make the difference. 30# injectors would prolly be better for you. But atleast LT1 24# injectors.

For cam, i'd totally recoomend a large duration mid-high lift cam. Making great upper rpm power. Lt4 hot cam is very nice but there is also a compirable cam, IIRC its a cc303, please post if i am wrong the name goes along those lines. But that cam will make great power and still run your power accessories most of the time.

I'm not keeping tap on budget get here but do all that and get a tune, and you shouldn;t be any higher then $2500, if so, you are a bad as hell shopper, Ebay baby.

After that Sub frame conectors(SFC) are a must on any thirdgen, i dont care if you just drive it to work and back. they make the difference. Dont get bolt-on's.

If you want a quick straight line car, get weak rear end springs and weak shocks, so the rear end squats on launch so traction can be taken care of.

there are things i should be saying but i am tired, so the rest is up to the other board members.

LnealZ28

I'd suggest you take the $4000 and open a Roth IRA. Then use the money you can save up to buy some headers & PROM tuning gear and tune what you already have.. My $.02

ZZ28ZZ

First do a compression test to verify bottom end is good. If that's good:

Superram, matching LPE cam, port heads, larger valves and bowl hogging, upgraded valve springs, screw-in rocker studs, guide plates, Comp pro-mag roller rockers, Holley adj fuel press reg, Hooker 2055 headers, high-flow cat, transgo shift-kit, Spohn SFC's, Spohn tubular lower control arms (LCAs), lowered LCA mounts (if it still hops), Spohn adjustable torque arm, torque conv, some good sticky tires, posi rear end (if you don't already have that), chip burning equip and ecm monitoring s/w, Wide band o2 set-up.

What's that add up to??

Dialed_In

iTrader: (3)

I would do a Vortec head setup and a cam with the SDPC base, SLP runners and ported plenum, afpr, headers, catback, stall converter and gears. If you're not doing the work yourself, the labor for that will put you over budget but if you're doing it yourself you'll save a ton of money and can spend it on other things. Headers/stall/gears will get you 13's with drag radials.

wkdformula89

I have chip burning software and hardware, i had to custom tune the prom to handle the new injectors and make them flow right.

Dialed_In: Could you explain what "SDPC" and "AFPR" are? is AFPR adjusted fuel pressure regulator? Please excuse my ignorance, this is the first car i've ever worked on, and i've never taken an automotive course.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well, since you're in California, and you're getting lots of advice from people who obviously have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER about the laws in that state....

The ONLY smog-legal options available to you, besides just stick nitrous on it, are:

SuperRam - also the biggest PITA on Earth to work on. Absolutely not a good project for a beginner. Not that it's hard to understand, or anything like that; just, that getting it assembled properly and leak free requires considerable finesse, and it has to be COMPLETELY disassembled to work on ANYTHING underneath it. This means that for someone with limited experience, it will basically be in some sort of a state of disrepair or imperfection virtually 100% of the time.

Vortec setup - this one is only smog-legal IF you get the little add-on tube kit thing for EGR hookup, such as came on the Vette TPI motors. The thing about those heads, is that the intake ports are in a different location from older heads; so yeah, you can drill bolt holes and get stuff to bolt up, but you'll COMPLETELY lose the benefit of the heads.... namely, the fact that the intake ports are in a different place from your existing manifold. There is EXACTLY ONE solution to this problem for TPI owners, and that's the special single-vendor TPI intake base available from SDPC. http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/1460...-Baseplate.htm which goes with Vortec heads.

A blower - duh

LS1 or LT1 swap - this requires the full package be installed; computer, wiring, transmission, etc. Not cheap; but when you look at what you get out of the LS1 in particular, it might be worth considering.

Things you CANNOT legally do in California - carb, Holley Stealth Ram, MiniRam; indiscriminately hack stuff off that you don't like the way it "looks"; anything that removes or alters any emissions-related devices or components, that doesn't have a CARB EO number.

Don't pay any attention to people that don't either live in California, or who haven't lived there in the past (as I have). People from elsewhere usually don't quite "get" how restrictive the laws are out there.

There's alot of things, like zz28zz listed, that aren't part of the ENGINE, but rather are part of the CAR, that either will make the car faster, or must be upgraded to avoid failure (tearing up) if the engine is upgraded, or that MUST be upgraded along with the engine in order for the engine upgrades to work right. DO NOT make the mistake of thinking that you can take your entire $4000 and buy yourself a monster motor and plop it into your otherwise unaltered car, and go race with the big boys; it doesn't work like that. I'd estimate, as a rule of thumb, that half of your budget will need to go somewhere besides the engine proper. That would include exhaust, sticky tires, gears, torque converter, suspension work, cooling system, and so on.

The Roth IRA isn't such a bad idea. That's smog legal in California.

Wayne's 383Iroc

If your short block is in good shape then I would get a new base, runners, cam and headers. This will get you in the 13s easy. If your going to be a long term owner of this car then you can then build/ buy a long block with good heads 350/383 that all of these items from the other engine will swap over to. Just plan it out so your not spending money on items that you will not use later.

ZZ28ZZ

I've never installed a Super Ram before, but from what I've seen on this board, there are some tricks that can be performed to make assy much easier like slotting the runner to plenum bolts or tapping the runners so the bolts can be installed from the top. Some members report it's easier to install a modified Super Ram than a long tube runner set-up. Still, it may be a bit much for a beginner.

IMHO; If you're more concerned abt your 1/4 mile times, I think the Super Ram would be the way to go.
If you're more concerned abt street driving, an after market long tube runner (LTR) would be better.

I used to live in Calif, but it's been a while and my Z was stock while I was there. I did have a truck I bought fully modded. It was an experience from hell getting the referee happy abt that thing.

I wasn't aware the Vortec heads were allowed on a 3rd gen in Calif. I thought the eng assy had to be from a later year of the same model vehicle. I may be wrong abt that.

One thing for sure, you wanna make sure what you're planning is going to be legal before you lay down a bunch of cash.

Mark 89Formula

Emissions legal headers, a good converter, sticky tires, a good tune in the PROM, good posi, and solid short block and you'll be in the 13s at seal level. Cleaning up your plenum, runners, and base with a die grinder and assortment of sanding rolls will also help. I wouldn't both changing out the intake until you go with better heads and cam.

91Z28-350

Buy an ATI blower setup with your $4k. Save up a bit of additional money, and buy some headers. Save up some more and buy heads and cam. You have a single cat, right? SLP 1-3/4 inch, and a high flow 3.5" cat.

Heads, you're limited to certain heads that either need work or are a tad more expensive, AFR, Trickflow for example. There are folk that walk the grey line and mimic the Vette EGR setup to pass smog and use Vortec heads. If you get tagged for the ref with that (pullover inspections, for example), you'll probably be ****ed.

The blower will be decent and with addtional mods, you'll eventually catch up to the mildly modded LSX folk.

wkdformula89

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Couple of questions:

Isnt it bad to put, for example, one performance part onto the engine at a time? Like if i put a better intake but stock exhaust, wouldnt that be a strain on the engine? Or am i totally mistaken?

Between SLP headers and the hooker 2055, the price difference is quite substantial. Does this difference reflect the performance of the parts, or is it bull.

As for suspension, only one person has recommended some parts. What suspension components do you think i'd need to support my car into the 12-13 second range?

sstpres

My recommedations are:
1. Add a good set of Smog legal headers and high flow CAT.--- $600
2. Install a 2800-3000 converter.--- $600
3. Make sure the motor is in good tune. Plug wires, timing,
compression test, etc.--- $100
4. Put about a 3.30-3.50's gear in the rear and a good posi.--- $650
5. Add a good nitous kit and put about a 100Hp shot on it to start and work up. 150shot Max. Be sure and retard the timing about 6deg.--- $500

Oh, a set of M/T drag radials or ET streets would help out at the track.--- $325

That should get you close with $$$ to spare.

If not look a porting and improving the intake side. Ported pleum and Edebrock intake--- $600

Check out Car Craft December 2005 pg42.

Dialed_In

iTrader: (3)

Converter, gears and smog legal headers will get you into the 13's easily. The Vortec heads and the TPI from Scoggin Dickey (SDPC) along with a mild cam and a good tune will net even more power and you CAN make the EGR work and be emissions legal. But you may not want to listen to me, I've never lived in California

91Z28-350

It's technically not legal, but it gets by because most don't know. Alot of folk do it, but since it's out in the open it is a bit of a risk. If you get sent to a ref due to a ticket, they will probably know as they aren't exactly just smog monkeys. I haven't been sent over yet, but some have.

13s is easy, he wants to smack down some LSx though (read between the lines in his post). He'll need FI to get it done....and eventually a new bottom end.

wkdformula89

I looked up the vortech setup and it sounds like what i think i'm going to do.

Im planning on ordering the Hooker 2055 coated headers. I already ordered some sphon sfcs and probably will have my gears upgraded to 3.73's

i looked on sdpc.com and found this setup. I'm a little confused as to whether or not this is the combonation that people have mentioned.

1. EGR Installation Kit for TPI Vortec Baseplate
Part Number: SD3816

2. Upgraded Vortec Head Kit, Roller, TPI Intake, Headers
Part Number: SD8060RATPI
-- Oversize Charge (add $15.00 )

3. LT4 Hot Cam SB Chevrolet GM Hydraulic Camshaft Kit
Part Number: 12480002

Total cart value was about $$1900, probably 2000$ w/ shipping.

Is that the LT4 hotcam that was referenced?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that is the HOT cam.

Just as an aside: HOT is an acronym for something, I can't recall what; it's not the word "hot", and it's not "hotcam", all one word.

You'll need the EGR kit too, and to do whatever to the headers to hook it up.

That should get you a good power increase, and also go through smog with a minimum of hassle. Make sure that the Hooker headers have AIR tubes, and a CARB EO number, before putting them on. The smog **** will DEFINITELY be looking for those 2 things. I know the web page says "emissions legal", but take no chances; "49-state legal" won't do you a whole lot of good if they don't have a CARB #, or showing the inspector the catalog page and telling him "Well I thought..., see says right here" if they aren't actually CARB approved, with the number to back it up.

91Z28-350

If you're doing the Vortec external EGR, do not get coated headers. You need to cut the rear most AIR tube off the passenger's side header and weld the external EGR adapter to it to feed the EGR. Then weld off the hole you made with the AIR passages in the other 3 (cut it so it's flush with the next most AIR tube). After that, send it off to coat. It's a waste of money to coat before. You have to grind off the coating in order to weld.

Hooker 2055 does have a CARB-EO# for single cat cars.

Funny that you mention that you must be emissions legal and then you want to skirt the grey areas.

Don't forget you need a good bit of tuning with the LT4 Hot Cam.

Don't forget a bigger than stock stall.

BTW, you'll be in the 13s with tuning, but no way you'll beat LSX with just that setup. They'll smack you down hard. Almost all LS-1 F-bodies that I know personally put down 400+ rwhp. Heads and cam LS-1 F-bodies, at least 430+ rwhp and into the 11s.

91Z28-350

Forgot to mention. The LT4 Hot Cam is OK, but you can do a whole lot better. Look at the Comp Cams XFI grinds. The only downside is it has a really aggressive lobe. You'll probably need to change valve springs often, possibly every year or two.

If you're sticking with the LT4 Hot Cam, get 1.6rr. The specs are listed with 1.6rr instead of the 1.5 ratios we have.

Get better runners too, since you have $$ to burn. Do some serious porting of those heads.

wkdformula89

I know that its almost impossible to come close to my LSX buddies and stay within a reasonable price range. I would just like to have a little more power so i can hang w/ them when they punch it on the freeway or something and not get left in the dust. Its really embarrassing when a GT '02 mustang runs you too...

My goals are 13's, i would be extremely happy with thirteens, and if i wanted better i would just ssave up and get a better block.

thanks again for all the feedback

91Z28-350

LSX rules the freeway. There's no way you can keep up once they punch it. The top end is too good. Not that I condone racing on the freeways.

You'd have made your goal of 13, 13 is actually "slow" on the streets and you don't really need all that to hit 13s since the 89 350 can run low 14s easily in stock form, without stall or DRs. I say go for high 12s. It's doable with the setup, and even easier with a bigger cam, and head porting, and either hog out the intake or get something better.

If you don't mind working on your car you can go for an HSR and swap it every 2 years to the stock stuff just for smog....since you don't mind the grey areas.

You can also go for long tubes, same argument.

Once you're willing to go grey, it's a whole different ballgame.

Good Luck.

WoostahGTA

I don't think anyone mentioned it, but the LT1 intake is a great move if you're looking for top-end power. And, in my opinion, sticking with a longtube runner setup is one of the worst choices you can make. To each there own, and I don't want to sound like an *** and talk smack about other peoples set-ups, but here is what i think. When chevy made the TPI setup, they were going for fuel economy and low-end drivability. But then they came out with the LT1 and later LS1, because they found out that you don't need all that torque in a relatively light car, so they made an intake for top-end power. And now look how much better those cars respond to bolt-ons then the TPI. If you want a fast car without spending alot of money, you can go with the LT1 setup from $300-$500, depending on how lucky you are finding a used intake and how hard you search for one. After that, if you want some real power look into heads, and build them based on the amount of lift you want. Getting more stall will probably be a good idea with that intake, and especially if you increase your duration. All the chassis stiffening that was recommended earlier also sounds like a great idea to me, wheel hop is a bitch.

Anyways, with a nice set of heads, LT1 intake, a hot cam, and all the tuning, fuel, cooling tidbits you'll need to keep it safe and running good, you'll have a car that will keep up with LS1's no problem. As for emissions, I give some guy an extra $80 bucks every 2 years and I don't worry about it, but I don't know how things are in Cali.

LnealZ28

OK, I'm confused here. You say you wanna hang with the LS1 boys? Just get an LS1 and drivetrain from a wrecked f-body, add smog legal headers, sticky tires, Spohn torque arm, subframe connectors and be done with it. You apparently have the $$ to do it, unlike a lot of us here, so go for it. Spanking an LSX with a gen 1 sbc is cool, but for all the trouble you're talking about going through to mod your L98 seems to me it'd be better just to do the LS1. If I had it to do over, that's the road I'd take.

I'd still suggest the Roth IRA.

wkdformula89

I really appreciate everyone's input, you guys have been a lot of help.


I think i've decided to wait a few months and save up the money to do an LS1 swap, i think that would give me the performance i want while still being a reliable car.


LnealZ28: i find it very funny that you mention investing in Roth IRA's. Thats EXACTLY what my dad thinks i should do with the money. haha he just said it the other day...