Long story short...I've had every problem in the book with this new motor.
I've started it 3 times and chages the oil three times. first start was 30 minutes. 2nd was a 4 mile drive and the third was a 20 minute run in the garage. Everytime I've changed the oil had a metal sheen in the oil and slight metal shavings on the drain plug.

Last night (probably too late) I noticed the oil press gauge showed extremly low PSI. It could be my gauge or sender or I could have a problem. I have a mech gauge I just hooked up but havn't started it again yet because I saw metal in the third oil change.

Should I be worried about the metal in the oil? Its only been run for a little over an hour but I thought after three changes I would see no more sheen or shavings.

Heres another thread with some detail of whats been going on...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...h-rebuild.html

 

yes a spun bearing will put alot of metal in the oil

 

Also, I found some wetness on the #7 plug. The others were dry even though the pass head plugs were much more dark than the drivers head plugs (besides #7).

 

thats not enough oil for me to really worry. You almost always have some sort of metal when breaking in a motor. all the imprefections are smoothed out. your cam will produce a good amount of fuzz then after an oil change you should be good. But you need to drive it like 500-1000 miles before you really start worring about fuzz. Now if you are talking about shards that look like clipped off finger nails... then you have problems... give it a while then let us know.,

 

Well, I'm going to start it up here in a few. Hopefully that mechanical gauge will show good oil pressure, if not I'm going to assume a rebuild is already in order and I already lost a bearing.
I did hear a ticking or knocking coming from the pass side head last night which I didn't hear the other two times (but this time I had the exhaust on and could hear a little better...). I pulled the valve covers and saw nothing out of the ordinary. This might be a rocker out of adjustement too...

Ede if you had to guess does this sound like a bearing or just not enough miles on the motor AND a faulty gauge?

 

BTW...what would cause a bearing to spin on a fresh rebuild when the motor was not overrevved?

 

Debris in the oil passages, improper clearance, bad journal surface...

 

 

metal in the oil and low oil pressure sounds like you messed something up putting the shortblock together. You either didn't keep it clean enough, clearances are wrong, or installed wrong.

 

Unfortunatly I didn't build the shortblock. JTMiller92 on here did (who is also a cop). He said he built it and it sat for two years then I bought it from him and had it checked out by a friend of mine who builds some pretty decent big blocks and knows his stuff. He said it looked good.

I installed my mech oil press gauge and my electric one is sort of screwy (also had an alt probelm and think I fixed that) and heres my new senario...

10 PSI oil pressure at idle and normal (30+ all the way to almost 60 PSI) with RPM's.

Whats going on?

 

still doesn't explain the metal in the pan.

 

Theres a lot of things that aren't explained with this damn motor. I know the metal particles have got me clueless but is there anything I can look into for this 10 PSI at idle oil pressure??? What causes this?

 

ask the guy that built it what kind of clearances it's got. What kind of oil pump is in it?What is the pickup depth? A million things could cause low oil pressure but seeing as how you found metal chunks in the pan, you have a problem. It's awful hard to diagnose over the internet

 

Yes, thanks for the input, I understand its tough to fix problems on here but it really helps me out a lot.
I'll call my friend Monday and ask what clearances I have and what he installed the pickup depth at.

I'm running a Melling M55A oil pump. I read on a post in here those pumps tend to do this. Also, I've read on here 10 PSI for every 1000 RPM is acceptable...is this true? I'm idling about 800 RPM.

 

Mine idles at 30 psi hot with .0025-.0027 on the rods and .0030 on the mains with that same pump.

 

Same oil pump, same clearances, 45psi hot idle, 60psi + all other times (on stock gauge.) I also used a high pressure spring however, mrg26 IIRC.

you don't have metal "chunks" right, just a metallic sheen when changing the oil?

out of curiousity, what kind of oil filter are you running? Your filter bypass spring setup right?

 

he mentioned in another thread something about metal shavings not just fine filings from break in.

Sonix: I tapped and plugged the bypass on my oil filter mount

 

I had metal shavings on my drain plug. The oil (as I can best describe) has metallic particles in it. Looks like a metallic flake in paint (out of the filter). The oil from the pan also has this but not as much "flake".

I'm not usign a high pressure spring even though I have one sitting in the garage. I thought I wouldn't need it since I'm running the M55A.

I am using NAPA Gold filters.

I've always wondered about the oil filter adapter...I never knew if I installed it right or not. It looks like it can go on either way (180 degrees turned either way) and wouldn't make a difference since there is only two bolts. I only have the alumium adapter and the two bolts, nothing else, no spring etc. The adapter has the screen for the bypass that I didn't tap and plug...yet.
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I havn't had much run time on this motor and am wondering if the metal is jsut still from 'break in'...
BTW, this is a hyd roller valvetrain.

the link to the other thread in my first post shows some pics of the oil sheen i think.

 

here is the question everyone has neglected to ask you say you run 10 psi at idle but is this after awhile or is this a cold start? as a rule you should get 10+ psi for every 1k rpms of course when warming up this will record much higher in like the 60s or even higher on these cars how long after starting are you recording 10psi

 

as far as the oil filter bypass: it'll only fit one way. If you try to put it on 180* out, it'll hit....something, I forget. If it's the style that doesn't hit anything, then it's fine. I'm saying this from memory, and a bad memory at that.

Tony; plugged the oil filter bypass? Hmm, that's a good idea, wish I woulda thought of that when I was building my motor...

If you're not getting knocking, and the motor seems to be running ok, i'd just keep running it. Keep using cheap(er), non synthetic, and change it with the filter, every 1000 miles or so, until the oil is CLEAN.

 

The pressure drops when the car warms up. Cold its high, but I've noticed the car gets hot very very quickly.

I guess I'll just keep running it until I can get it running halfway decent then just go from there. I've been through 28 qts of oil so I'll just keep up very fequent oil changes until something blows. I think I'm the only one buying the Supertech at Wally World!!!

I noticed tonight all the plugs look good except the #7...its nice and black...yet something else.

 

Well it definitely doen't seem like a lost cause just the obligatory new build tinkering will ensue we've all been there

 

instead of that "cute" listing in your sidebar as to your motor info, how about something helpful, such as motor size and induction choice perhaps?

The only people who can pull of the BS in the sidebar are those who have too many cars, or never ask for help. Drives me nuts

my new motor heats up really fast too, I think high performance type motors get hot faster then yer basic grocery getting 10 minutes on the highway before you get up to temp...

Well, hopefully you still have rings on the #7 cylinder...

 

If I'm getting under anyones skin feel free not to help. This is my first build, I'm young, broke (college working my butt off), and learned a ton especially how much I don't know. With all the problems I've had my nerves are shot and I feel like giving up. What I hate is when peoples sigs and sidebars are longer than most of thier posts (no direct reference to Sonix) and they tell me all of the throttle Body bypasses and spark plugs they have...

/rant

I'm running a 383 with Trickflow 23 degree heads. 230/236 .544/.555 112LSA. HSR w/58mm TB. 30# injectors with about 10.3 CR (give or take).

Heres a pic of two plugs, guess what one is #7. I hate flooding one thread with 500 problems so thats why I start new ones, while I'm at the same time searching my *** off. So, I will probably start another thread and try to get some opinions why one plug could be messed up like this.

 

is it wet?
I didn't catch if it was carbureted

 

Before when I checked them I thought it looked slightly wet. Just now when I checked them and took the pics it wasn't wet but maybe could have dried out?? I'm going to start a new thread now so we can keep this one on topic to the metal and bearings.

 

fuel pressure holding after the engine is off?? if not, it might be a leaky injector on that cylinder, fouling that plug out..

 

If you still have the old filters, cut them open and spread out the filter.

 

thirdgen88

 

Well, thats anoher problem...lol. The fuel pressure isn't holding but I'm working with the crap Holley adj regulator. I also think my check ball in the pump might be bad (I installed it last year but think the checkball broke during install). The injectors are used but I can't seem to pinch the fuel lines to check for sure (steel braided line). If it can go wrong it has, seriously.

I might try to switch that injector with #5 and then go from there. Time is short, however.

Also, don't have anything to cut the filters open with besides hacksaw but when I drained the last one slightly larger particles of metal came out than what was in the oil itself.

 

Sorry if I came across like a PITA, but I am exactly in your shoes (22 year old university student, building first motor with every speck of $$ I can find... I'm just about 1 week ahead of you, if that...)

This:
Is the reason I wanted you to mention your induction method (sidebar is handy, but whatever.) I was thinking this, but if you had a carb, then it's moot.


ok ok, focus on oil on this thread, waiting with baited breath on the your new thread.
PS. Get a close up of that dark plug, with macro if you can.

 

if you keep changing that oil, your rings are never gonna seat. they need the metal in the oil to help seat them to the bore.

also, with a roller cam, i wouldn't think there would be alot of metal in the oil from the cam, though i've never had a roller motor so i'm only speaking from a hypothetical situation in my brain...

BTW, my engine gets up to operating temps rather quickly as well. it's a 10.4:1 c/r 238*/248* cammed 305...it gets right up to 170* and stays there...once the fan is turned on. it's all part of the high performance game my friend.

 

Never heard of needing metal in the oil to seat rings but I am new at this. There isn't supposed to be much metal in roller motors and thats whats worrying me. Only time will tell, hopefully I (Joe) can get it dialed in better to drive and get some miles on it then I'll keep an eye on the oil etc.

I guess if the metal can hurt it it probably already has and if its just excessive break in junk its one weird situation.

 

Thought I'd bump this and give a 2 year update...


Still had problems with the motor. Went to carb to try to isolate the multiple problems I was having and finally just took it all back apart again for yet another rebuild. This one is nearing completion and has gone much better. Ended up line honing the block as it looked like the caps were walking. But other than that I just grabbed new bearings and gaskets (among many other things) and went at it.




I still have not found the source of the bigger metal particles, however. All the rods and crank were pretty much spotless, I could find no nicks or scrapes in the block so I am stumped.